Do you see more poverty in America compared to the UK?

I was watching a HBO program about people that have encountered financial problems since the economic down turn of 2008. It showed families that have lost  jobs and and all their savings while trying to deal with the challenges resulting from the near depression conditions.

 I'm curious to know if you have seen similar levels of poverty in the UK? Most of the world has experience huge job lost and shrinking economies. That fact made me wonder if there is sizable amounts of poverty,job lost,home seizures, and regions of the UK which sank to near depression levels? Are there record levels of public assistance being requested by the Uk population? If so, has the UK  shown signs of rebounding? Is the UK doing better in dealing with the recession than other major western nations, or about the same or worse?

I ask these question in order to guage how conditions are in the UK.

Appreciate your insight.

I live in rural south Georgia and people are pretty poor here.  Living in the UK and then returning here, it's scary to see just how poor people are and what living conditions are like in the US compared to the UK.  My UK husband could not believe the state of some of the homes/mobile homes around here and just how little help they get with housing.  There is very little to no government housing here.  It's a said situation.  Poor people are less educated and they are less educated because they are poor.  And they are having kids and passing it onto the next generation.

I can only really compare NYC and London, but I can tell you that the economic situation in London is pretty bad.

There are the Very Rich, and then there is everyone else.

The wages here are pathetically low. Seriously low. Shockingly low.

The cost of living here is inanely high. Taking the Tube costs AT LEAST over 4 times more than it costs to take the NYC Subway.

People are 'out of work' in the UK for several years, as opposed to several months.

But, unlike the US, if you have cancer in the UK, you have access to the NHS, so you are not left in the street to die like a dog because you cannot afford private insurance!

Well, for now anyway...

The truth is, it is a global economic crash, so everywhere has been effected, to an extent, I would assume... Right?

I saw more poverty in the US, but then I was living in an urban area there and live in a little village here. Where I lived in the US (and this was even prior to the economy tanking), there was a huge problem with homelessness, the shelters and soup kitchens were always overflowing and the food banks also did a roaring trade. Here, there's one food bank for a MASSIVE area and that isn't really needed too much. I'm not saying that the people who use it don't need it, it's just that there aren't many who do need it. But, as I said, I think it's all about where you've lived in each country. It's sort of impossible to say if there's more or less poverty in the US/UK, taking each country as a whole.

I think it is depends on where you are in which country situation.

My in-laws live in the country and there is a lot of hidden poverty there because houses are majorly expensive and London people buy them.  The locals however can't and they can't get local jobs because there aren't many any more and they can't travel because there really isn't public transportation.

I've seen more poverty here, but again, I think that is to do with location. I moved from a small town in the suburbs of Boston to a much bigger town in the UK. There are nice parts of town and there are not so nice parts that are poverty stricken. My hometown was generally middle class and there wasn't much difference between one part of town and the next.

Well technically, if you want to talk numbers, there's around 10x the number of people in poverty in the US than there are in the UK, there' was a spike of nearly a million people in the US in poverty last year to around 50M people, whereas the number of people in poverty in the UK is set to rise from just under 6M to 7M by 2014.
Interestingly in the US California has the highest poverty rate as it's one of the toughest states to qualify for state aide, there's also a high racial correlation component in the US, with 25% of African Americans living in poverty (Overall rate is 16% of US citizens live in poverty in 2012)


Now what constitutes poverty in either country is interesting, in the UK poverty is normally referred to as "relative poverty" i.e socially defined and dependent on social context, hence relative poverty is a measure of income inequality. Usually, relative poverty is measured as the percentage of population with income less than some fixed proportion of median income. There is very little absolute or extreme poverty in the UK because of advanced social welfare infrastructure, i.e benefits, social housing, NHS etc.

However in the US, there is more widespread extreme poverty with 2011 levels of Extreme poverty (HOUSEHOLDS existing on less than $2 a day) were DOUBLE that of 2006 levels, which means that 1.5M households were said to live in extreme poverty with over 2.6M children affected (this level of poverty is similar to poverty levels seen in the developing world). [Seriously, whole households on $2 a day?!]
in 2013 Child poverty has actually hit a record high in the US, with 16.7M children living in food insecure households.

Interestingly the US defines it's poverty level in 2012 as set at $23,050 (total yearly income) for a family of four, the UK as £18K a year or about $28K However, in the UK, this after housing costs are removed, but that is not true of the US figure.

So basically the US government thinks you are in poverty at quite a low figure, however the UK government considers you to be in poverty a lot sooner (cost of living not adjusted)

But yeah, in the US if your family of 4 survive and pay rent/bills/food/healthcare etc for less than $2000 a month you're in poverty.

If you're in the uk your family of 4 survive and just pay for bills/food for less than $2300 a month, you're in poverty.

So, in conclusion - the US has five times the population of the UK but 10x the amount of people below the poverty line, in addition the US defines the poverty line as lower than the UK does, which would actually push this ration slightly further in favour of the UK having less people in poverty.

Personally I think people see less poverty in the US as it's more economically segregated than in the UK, in London a poor area is less than ten minutes walk from the tower of London, next to 10M houses, in the US ghettos are more prevalent and thus easier to avoid, and entire areas are dependent on certain business which when they fail makes a whole area more economically depressed.

Someone's mentioned Boston here, in Boston you could pay $350K for a duplex, in Detroit you could buy an entire street for that, if not more.

I've never seen an official "poverty level" for the United Kingdom.  Can you point me to the official statistic? 

Personally I think people see less poverty in the US as it's more economically segregated than in the UK, in London a poor area is less than ten minutes walk from the tower of London, next to 10M houses, in the US ghettos are more prevalent and thus easier to avoid, and entire areas are dependent on certain business which when they fail makes a whole area more economically depressed.

Someone's mentioned Boston here, in Boston you could pay $350K for a duplex, in Detroit you could buy an entire street for that, if not more.

Very true.

I've never seen an official "poverty level" for the United Kingdom.  Can you point me to the official statistic?  

Poverty line was taken as 60% below the median income for 2012.  I don't know if this changes year to year (just pulled this up with a Google search).

Here are some facts and figures:

http://www.ifs.org.uk/comms/comm124.pdf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15238468
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/datablog/2012/jun/22/household-incomes-compare

Just like America, poverty in the UK after the 2008 economic collaspe seem to be a region to region situation.At least based on the opinions of those of you. Some areas have rebounded better than others in America.Technically, America has been out of recession since 2011 while it appears the UK is still in recession conditions nationwide.

I think its smart of the British to have a safety-net in place to protect its citizens from falling below a certain level of financial desperation. And I agree that in America there is a stigma of shame attached to government assistance which has made helping the poor a political hot potatoe.Politicians making the public feel ashame for wanting government help, and the public adopting the mentality that to need outside help is equivalent to being a failure. While the same socialist(greater society) programs appear to be accepted by most of the major political parties in the UK. And that has to be a direct reflection of the will of the people that believe assistance from government, is for the good of greater society. That attitude imo strikes a good balance.

 Pull your self up by your own boot straps is a very American mentality and can be pointed to as why there might be a certain level of poverty in the States.I would add that, in addition to our desire to spend a high percentage of our wealth on the military. After all, we spend more money combined than all the leading nations of the world on a military budget. If we spent just 25% of that on poverty we would probably have the lowest poverty level in the western world. I do wonder if there is a vast difference in opportunity for wealth creation in the UK compared to America? Maybe the UK has more job creation.

I really should have ignored this thread.

Because, now I have a total crush on cheesebiscuit's brain.

Great response buddy!

Poverty line was taken as 60% below the median income for 2012.  I don't know if this changes year to year (just pulled this up with a Google search).

Here are some facts and figures:

http://www.ifs.org.uk/comms/comm124.pdf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15238468
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/datablog/2012/jun/22/household-incomes-compare

The 60% of median doesn't change but the median obviously changes from year to year.

To check my figures again I just used did the poverty calculation again assuming median income AHC was which shows the figure for 2012 for a family of four to be slightly higher than I'd calculated, at £19K

Might be because when I did the calculator this time around I assumed one child was over 14 which is what the US poverty line assumes and I can't remember if I did that last time, anyway, I'm pretty sure that's close enough to be correct 

I'm not an expert, just got time on my hands as I'm off sick with a kidney infection

The guardian calculator is an interesting one as it shows the disparate difference between the rich and the poor and how hugely the poor outnumber the rich in orde rto bring that median to where it is despite some massive outliers.
Personal "favourites" there show that you can earn £110K a year AFTER tax and you're still part of the 99%, which is mind boggling really.

A big reason why poverty has increased in just about every nation is the fact that inflation is out pacing incomes. In America the average national income for november 2012 is $50K. In the UK the average national income for november 2012 is 26,500 Sterling. All these figures are statistics and many factors are relevant such as cost of living in your region of the country. How far your salary can stretch in a large city compared to a small town in a rural area. Skill sets are equally important.

 But the moment a statistic becomes real is after the lost of an income. The lost of a job for most people is devastating and the catalyst that pushes families into poverty. For that reason alone its my opinion that poor in the UK is still better than poor in America. People probably have more opportunity to seek out employment in America with the added chance for higher incomes. But the safey-net of free health care in the UK imo seem to be the biggest difference in the definition of poverty.

It might be true that buying a home in more affordable in America, and maybe retirement pensions are also higher, but if a person were to get sick in the States they risk losing everything without proper health care. In America when you lose a job you also leave behind the health care attached to that employment.

I worked in the low income housing industry (Section 8, RD 515, LIHTC) for nearly 30 years, and looked at more demographic data for more places than you can imagine. So much poverty in the US is hidden - but when affordable housing is made available, and the developer has to hold a lottery for available units, you suddenly realize how bad it can be by the number of people who turn up for a chance to get a unit.

I did a lot of work in Westchester County (NY). It's not all like Scarsdale and Chappaqua...go to the other side of the county - the river towns, and you see it everywhere, never mind Mt. Vernon, which is almost an extension of The Bronx.

Then go to rural GA, AL, MS, SC, NC...wherever, and drive every street in a little town, then around the county. What you find is heartbreaking.

The last recession hit middle America very hard, and made a lot of folks realize that "they" is "us". Is there more poverty here? I'm not sure, but I suspect despite what we hear, the poor in the UK have a larger safety net. At least here you can still see a doctor; in the US even basic medical care is a luxury to far too many people.