Do you see more poverty in America compared to the UK?

Hi

Some excellent points and discussion points here!

It's sometimes difficult to evaluate all the different financial reports and outlooks you'll see in serious media discussions as there's some people who are more positive than others. Overall though, I think the UK is still going to be in for a tough time over the next 3-5 years, possibly more. There are some signs of a return to growth with some sectors reporting good figures despite what the headline topics suggest, but those figures are also the best part of a very bad situation overall. There's many elements which all have their hand in the reason why the UK is in this mess and 'blame' cannot be put at just one entity or a couple - usually, the government and the bankers.

The USA has been hit very badly, and as per the post above from Cheesebiscuit, there's various factors which go to make up the 'initial' view of poverty that may be seen directly amongst the population as a whole. That said, the various figures coming from the US in financial aspects do indicate the turning point has been reached and passed and, albeit slowly, things are/will get better. Still a big uphill way to go though. However, the USA is much bigger and robust financially in order to actually 'go about' that recovery compared to the UK. As such, for the G8/G20, the UK will probably be one of the last to 'fully recover' as it were. Part of the reason for that is of course the whole see saw effect of the political party that's in power. Historically, Labour have pushed the UK into financial crisis and then the Conservatives have pulled things back via their policies and by the time that's happened, the electorate is fed up of 'looking after the pennies' and votes Labour back in to spend again - so we get the 'see saw' effect. Currently, with other Euro countries massively debt laden and the issues surrounding the 'Euro' that's slowing the recovery in the UK down considerably. Fallout from that is due to having to cut back on lots, there's less money around, less jobs etc and thus many more people losing what they maybe once had joining those who historically didn't have much/as much etc.

Tough times all around the globe, but the UK overall is nursing one of the biggest hangovers to the days of irresponsible spending/lending/borrowing.

For me, the best 'route' for the UK to take in trying to recover as best/quickly as possible is to allow business to flourish and accelerate in order to generate income for the UK overall - there's nothing left to borrow, there's nothing left to spend, funds/income needs to be generated !

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

In terms of opportunites to pull one's self out of poverty and the help you can receive while in poverty, would it be fair to say that the biggest difference between the UK and USA is access to free health care? If the answer to that question is yes, then one would have to say the early years into adulthood(18-39) is a time when a person's health is at its best. Those might be the years when a person could live in a particular country where the financial opportunities are greatest. But if you are a person with health concerns or a middle-aged to older person, then the Uk might be the better place to call home. We will have to see the effects of the new health care law that should be fully implemented by 2014.The law stastes that if you can't afford to pay for your insurance premiums the government must then pick up all, or part of the cost.

From my observations, although at almost every income level outside of the very top ones you are probably better off in the UK (due to more social services), it's not the poor that have it worst in the US compared to their UK counterparts at the same level. It's those in the mid-to-upper middle class (or what I refer to as the "third quartiles"). The main reason for that: Many of the social services in the US are means tested and cutoff somewhere in the middle of the middle class, leaving those above it who aren't independently wealthy in the cold (unlike the UK where there is no cap or the cap is much higher). The upcoming Obamacare vs. NHS is a prime example: Many lower-to-middle income Americans will be eligible for either Medicaid or heavily subsidized health insurance, but those higher in the middle class will either fall above the subsidy threshold or the subsides will be small (yet may still not be able to afford health insurance on their own). In the UK the NHS is available regardless of income level. The way college education is treated in the different countries further exasperates the problem: Once again there are more grants available to lower income Americans, but those higher up usually don't qualify and have to rely on loans since their families still can't afford college on their own and graduates with a mountain of debt. For most of the aforementioned programs only actual income is considered, and money that has to be devoted to paying off the loans isn't usually factored in (meaning that while they can't afford healthcare/their children's college/etc. on their own, their "income" is too high to qualify for assistance as well).

A lot of people don't agree with me, but I actually advise young adults that unless they can either afford college outright or have some kind of "collateral" to back up their loans that it may well be better to NOT go to college (or scale down your plans, e.g. go to a trade school instead of a four-year university); even if it means living a lower standard on the surface it means you'll probably qualify for more assistance, whereas if you went to college you'd probably have about the same disposable income (with having to pay back your five- or six-figure debt) but wouldn't qualify for much if any assistance. You can always go back to college later if you get enough money, but you're stuck with student loan debt no matter what once you go into it (you can't even discharge such debt through bankruptcy).

A lot of people don't agree with me, but I actually advise young adults that unless they can either afford college outright or have some kind of "collateral" to back up their loans that it may well be better to NOT go to college (or scale down your plans, e.g. go to a trade school instead of a four-year university); even if it means living a lower standard on the surface it means you'll probably qualify for more assistance, whereas if you went to college you'd probably have about the same disposable income (with having to pay back your five- or six-figure debt) but wouldn't qualify for much if any assistance. You can always go back to college later if you get enough money, but you're stuck with student loan debt no matter what once you go into it (you can't even discharge such debt through bankruptcy).

I think attending a trade school is the smartest thing a teenager getting right out of high school could do right now. There are a lot of training programs that are actively searching for students. I think going to college these days and getting heavily into debt is not something that should be taken lightly. Graduating from college and having a degree is no guarantee of getting a well paying job these days.

Going to a trade school is the best idea if a student is actually talented in that sort of area, for others (like me) it could easily be disastrous. Like going to university, it all depends on the student. University should be a serious, considered decision, but it shouldn't be viewed as solely a means of getting work. If that is the case, then perhaps uni life is not the best idea.

Speaking as someone who is poor, underemployed and heavily in debt (hello post- and undergraduate degrees), I wouldn't change going to uni. It helped me find subjects that interested me, subjects that I was extremely good at, and it also helped me to see the world (in some cases quite literally). I am able to think critically about the world around me and communicate my ideas effectively, which was helped in part by my uni years.  As a minority and 1st gen student, uni helped me to think big and move beyond the small town I was trapped in, which helped me to be fearless when it came to seeing the world and switching countries.

Also, my job may not be great now, but it will get better in the future. Work and money are important, obviously, but it isn't everything. Uni showed me that my education never stops, that I have to continue learning and exploring. It's helped my development into being a productive, thinking worldly citizen, and that makes it all worth it to me. It even led me to the career path I'm trying to get on now, helping disadvantaged, minority students expand their education and critically think about what it means to be a 'global citizen'. If I hadn't gone into higher ed, I'd probably have more money and a stable job, but I wouldn't have personal or intellectual fulfillment, I wouldn't have my husband (who I met as a student) and I wouldn't be in England.

Going to a trade school is the best idea if a student is actually talented in that sort of area, for others (like me) it could easily be disastrous. Like going to university, it all depends on the student. University should be a serious, considered decision, but it shouldn't be viewed as solely a means of getting work. If that is the case, then perhaps uni life is not the best idea.

I really think it's down to each individual person in terms of what it best for them and what they want to do.

I'm very similar to you in that, for me, there was never a question that I wouldn't go to university... even at the age of 11, just starting secondary school, I just knew that I would go, simply because it was going to be the next step for me after high school.

I stayed in university for almost 6 years and got 2 masters-level degrees under my belt, but because of the bad economy I didn't get my first decent paying graduate job until I was 27, and until then I supported myself by working in retail, earning a low wage and mainly living with my parents... but I don't regret going to university at all.

Sure, I could have left school at 18 and not gone to university, and probably could have been earning a decent salary well before the age of 27, but for me it wasn't about getting a better job or more money, it was about my desire to continue with academic study and experience university life... and so I studied subjects I enjoyed and wanted to research in depth, not necessarily subjects that might better my employment chances.