Tipping

the servers are welcoming but not overly familiar, never come by too often, but also magically appear just when you want them.

Perfect!

The last couple of times I went to an Outback Steakhouse in the US, the server actually sat in the booth with us to take our order! That's definitely taking it too far.

I don't know but I *think* that could be part of their schtick - that happened when I was in Outback too once. In the end, we got some free desserts though (I don't remember why or how), so it was all good! 

I really do dislike 'service included' on the bill automatically. Just pay your wait staff a decent wage & if the service is reasonable, I'll tip.

I should clarify, in France it was made a law that service has to be included in the price of the food so that servers were paid enough and therefore tips were not required, rather than that a service charge is placed on top of the final total. So on the menu or on the bill it will say 'service inclus' but not a separate amount, as it was already calculated into the food price.

Well that is good if it means they receive a living wage. I'd probably still want to tip them something in addition.

I think that the BBC story is off a bit in their "tip suggestions." I tip delivery people (as in, delivering me food, not UPS or something, obviously) more like 15-20% and never less than $3 even if the bill is only $10. I'm not really sure what the standard is, but I'd imagine that's about right. The delivery people have a much harder job than the servers--they have to ride their bikes out to you, often in the rain or other inclement weather, and usually do much less volume than the servers. I also think that the standard for waitstaff these days is more like 18-20%+, not 15%, but that may be an NYC/East Coast thing. Remember that the server doesn't keep the whole tip--they tip out the busser/runner and bartender, at the least.

For the record, I wait tables and I NEVER say "that is AWESOME" and I don't assume that the table wants to be my friend, unless there is some indication that they do. Nor do I ever tell anyone my name unless I'm asked (and it kind of annoys me when people ask my name unless we've already established a rapport, it often comes across as condescending. I still tell them, obviously).

I used to work in a restaurant located in a tourist-y part of Manhattan and I'd be lying if I said we didn't groan when we got a table full of people with accents. We usually assumed that the Brits/other foreign native English speakers would at least tip *something* and be more likely to be familiar with the custom (although they were rarely generous tippers). But other foreign tourists were very much a crapshoot and we hated taking those tables.

Legally, in NY State, the only acceptable forms of ID to drink are passports, US or Canadian driver's licenses or non-driver's ID cards and US military IDs. Foreign driver's licenses, etc, are not acceptable and sometimes, when I was busy, I would exploit that to get the foreign tourists to leave when presented with their driver's license. To be fair, some European driver's licenses are super dodgy looking (basically unlaminated pieces of paper) and it wouldn't be hard for some American college students to forge one and put on an Italian accent or something. But mostly, I wanted them to leave (which they often did) or a least keep their bill low (no booze) so that I would lose less money on the table (lower bill means a lower tip out, since the tip out wasn't based on the tip they left but on the total sale).

Part of me would just rather make a living wage and have benefits and part of me likes the system the way it is.

Aimless, you sound like a great server to me - dare I say it, even AWESOME!

I HATE tipping (hate hate hate hate) and would be more than happy to see it eliminated.  I don't think that it produces better service, just social stratification and resentment.  The best service I have ever had by a million country miles was in Japan, where no one will accept a tip even if you offer it.  Tipping in Japan is considered insulting because it suggests that people won't do their jobs properly unless they're bribed.  I think one of the reasons for this attitude is that waiting and other service jobs are considered careers, so people take professional pride in their work, and are paid a decent wage--not a "living wage" but a proper amount that gives them a good life.  I strongly believe that this is how things should be.   

Well in teh UK it's not the norm. DW found it strange with tip in a restaurant but not in a pub, even in a pub that serves food.
One thing I've noticed of late though is when paying by card and they bring teh machine for you to enter your PIN. A lot now I've noticed don't allow you to enter an amount for a tip and last tiem I was out without anything in my wallet/pocket less than £20. We'd had great service and yet they didn't get a tip.
But generally I tip 10%, or round up. I will also often tip a taxi driver but it'll only be 50p if it's my usual journey that is £3.50.

I have a friend who really dislikes tipping in the US becuase he feels obliged to. I find it strange in a bar, for example if I'm buying my drinks individually am I supposed to tip on each drink I buy (in order to get decent service next time I want one) or is it expected you just leave something at the end?

I used to work in a restaurant located in a tourist-y part of Manhattan and I'd be lying if I said we didn't groan when we got a table full of people with accents. We usually assumed that the Brits/other foreign native English speakers would at least tip *something* and be more likely to be familiar with the custom (although they were rarely generous tippers). But other foreign tourists were very much a crapshoot and we hated taking those tables.

I used to bartend opposite Lincoln Center in NYC a long, long time ago  and if a group of "tourists" came in, we were the same way, groannnnnnn!
As a result, we ususally didn't really go out of our way to give them good service because we knew we would be getting either nothing, or a crap tip, but we would give good service to the ones who tipped well, or that we expected to tip well, thats just the way it was/is

DH says that is why bar service in the pubs in the UK is so awful and slow, because they don't get tips, as compared to bar service in the US.

I have a friend who really dislikes tipping in the US becuase he feels obliged to. I find it strange in a bar, for example if I'm buying my drinks individually am I supposed to tip on each drink I buy (in order to get decent service next time I want one) or is it expected you just leave something at the end?

Well, back in my drinking days,  if we were at the bar, we would sometimes leave a tip at the end, or per round, but if we were at a table and going up to the bar buying rounds, the tip would be always be for that round, often times we would get a 'buy back' from the bartender around the 4/5th round, yay!!! 

As a result, we ususally didn't really go out of our way to give them good service because we knew we would be getting either nothing, or a crap tip, but we would give good service to the ones who tipped well, or that we expected to tip well, thats just the way it was/is

But couldn't that just perpetuate it? I might go into a bar in NY and that happens so then I think, well I was going to tip but why should I cause the service was poor!

My philosophy goes to whether I'll go back. For example, in Florida last year, the first night we went to a place that we knew we'd be coming back to I left a reasonable tip, but if I'd gone to a place I knew I wouldn't be returning to I probably wouldn't tip as well.

In a bar, if you're paying in cash per round, then you tip each time you buy drinks, usually $1/drink. If I'm drinking something more complicated (a mojito or other cocktail that takes forever to make), I'll usually leave $2. If you're running a tab and paying by card at the end, it's fine to tip at the end when you settle up (but then I usually tip 20%, even if that's more than $1/drink). There's a great little bar in the East Village with an improbably cheap happy hour ($2.50 for most things, $3.50 for draft beer) and there, I usually give them the 50¢ I get in change as well as the $1 bill just 'cuz why not?

If you treat your bartenders well, you usually get a buy back like Stephanie mentioned on your 4th or 5th drink, which helps to negate the cost of the tip if you're drinking more than a couple.

I'm not saying that I'm proud of assuming that foreigners don't tip but unfortunately, it's a fact of life. There were many times that I did give a table of non-English speaking foreigners great service and was rewarded with just a few dollars at the end. But if I was busy, the table of foreigners were the ones I found it easiest to slack off a bit with.

Even the foreign tables who do tip "correctly" still leave closer to 15%. That's ok, I guess, and better than nothing, but the standard in New York these days really is 20%. Also totally not expected but super nice if you can, is tipping in cash even if you pay by credit card. Depending on the restaurant, the server may not see the tip on the card until they get their paycheck.

In a bar, if you're paying in cash per round, then you tip each time you buy drinks, usually $1/drink.

I had heard that and it's why I'll run a tab instead.

Always remember my first time in NY and I was sat at the bar just amazed at how people just left stacks of notes on the bar - then after they picked up what was there, put down the tip and left. So I do that if I'm sitting at the bar,

I'm not a fan of tipping. I'm the type of person that tips badly at hotels because I almost never have small bills on me, or any cash at all. I'd rather just stay at a place that has service included (two places I've been to have done that and it's far more relaxing to not have to worry about it).

Having waited tables both in the US and UK, I can tell you that the inclusive service charge does not always go to the staff. I worked in one London restaurant where the owner/chef balked that I would even expect to get the 10% service charge - after all they came for his food, not me. And at one place in the US whenever I got over a 20% credit card tip, the owner was convinced I was steeling from him. Servers just can't win.

As a result I don't trust the inclusive service that I see more and more of in the UK, so I always leave a few coins (rounding up) if the service is good and leaving a bit extra if the service is, pardon my french, awesome. But I don't do a standard 20% like I would in the US.

Then we met up with balmerhon & CCG (and baby CCG) one day for lunch at a brewpub place - which was really good & a good choice btw you gals! I'm not sure if balmerhon or CCG noticed it, and by this time, DH & I were getting used to the awesomeness too, but things were just really awesome there as well.

Yes, I remember that and funny enough, there isn't much about that establishment that is awesome. I loathe waitstaff at US chain restaurants. I don't know what I would do with myself if someone actually sat down at the table with me. You know when they introduce themselves and tell you their name? My uncle will then introduce himself and all those around the table with him to the wait person. 

On the flip side, we were at a restaurant in Ireland and do you think someone could carry a pitcher of water around and fill up water glasses? Not a chance. Getting someone to come to our table (and this was a small restaurant with not a lot of patrons) was nearly impossible. They didn't seem to want to look at any of the customers. At first I was cool about it, but then I started to get pretty annoyed.

Wow, as a bartender this is awful.  I do not except a tip after every round.  In fact if you keep your money on the bar, I EXPECT to be tipped when you leave.  I don't remove any tips off the bar until the customer is out the door, unless they hand it to me.  I just think that is rude practice. 

I would rather get a decent living wage and benefits over tips....but I do enjoy when people overtip (obviously).

I am notoriously over tipping when I visit the UK.  Gave the hair washing girl a fiver for a wash and a curly blow.  Tho that was in front of the girl who I had a problem with. I had scheduled my appointment a month before. DH went a week before me and called in to make sure they knew I wasn't pranking them as I had called from the US.  I wasn't in the book.  He rebooked me for the same time.  When I got there the girl said I was an hour late (I was 15 minutes early).  She said she would squeeze me in, but the wash girl would get me started.  The hair dresser couldnt be bothered finishing me since I couldnt be bothered to show up on time She said that directly behind me) so the wash girl finished.  My bill was cheaper as it was done by a wash girl....not even a trainee.  So I made sure I tipped her 5 pounds on a 12 pound bill.  The hairdresser was standing there.  So sometimes, tipping can prove a point to the rude employee.  BTW I had arrived at the right time as I could see the book when I paid.

Some service people expect a tip.  Others (like me) generally enjoy the job.  I get to meet a lot of interesting people.  Including actors and singers and an olympic gold medalist (my favorite of all customers).  And honestly at the end of the day if I can pay my bills I am happy

I x-posted with MLG, so I removed my topic.

Last time I was in the US, it was like my second night in country and we went to a bar. I I totally forgot I was supposed to tip... Well guess who got snubbed on the next round... and I felt really terrible because I realised I was supposed to tip and that the servers were depending on that...  I did make up for it the next round and it was all fine the rest of the night. But still....   made me think that it's not nice to get snubbed either for not giving a tip!   
Living wages would be better in my mind!