The George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Trial Verdict!!

I suspect a troll.

Me too.

TykeMan,

Haha, I am actually not a troll- believe it or not.  I was looking for an american-uk expat blog and somehow I stumbled on this page. I got to watch the entire trial and noticed this was a very recent active post so I decided to jump in.   I am actually looking at several threads right now including ones about long distance relationships, homesickness, rants, jobs, etc. But a lot of the ones I am interested in are not current, plus I am reading up through all the posts before I post my own thoughts in case I would like to respond to someone or in case someone else has already said something I can agree to.    What exactly about my views on the case seemed troll like? I did not insult anyone or say anything rude about Mr. Martin.  I guess you can not disagree with the majority on here?  I apologize if I seem like a troll because I have an opinion and I am a new user.  I wasn't aware that along with getting out of a vehicle in your own neighborhood that is a crime too.  

In all seriousness though, I am not trying to offend or play devil's advocate- I am just trying to have an intelligent thoughtful discussion on this topic.  Not many people I know here (been in Cheltenham almost a year) are really into this case.  And due to time differences it is hard to talk to my friends at home about the case.  I do apologize if it came across that I was "trollin'".  Is it okay if we continue the discussion? 

Hi TykeMan,

Even Fox news was bias in this case.  I actually do not watch Fox news, I prefer CNN, until recently.  At first I was watching on HLN and reading the liveblog until I found that it was not reporting things correctly.  I then started to watch the trial from the Channel 9 in Florida (I believe) which was a live cast of the trial from begining to end and including the side bars and extra hearings that of course the jurors didn't get to listen to, such as the judge ruling against allowing the toxocolgy report that Mr. Martin had TCH in his system.

I am happy that you don't just listen to the media when you make decisions as they all have agendas (CNN, Fox, all of them!) and they report what works with it.  The vast majority of people were misled when the incident first occured and Trayvon was portrayed as a 12 year old boy and Zimmerman as a "white-hispanic".  I think we can agree that people were definitley race baiting in this trial, and it continues as even Mr. Obama comments that he could have been Trayvon (35 years ago). 

Mr. Zimmerman called a non-emergency number because Trayvon looked like he was on drugs and he was looking into people's homes (in this neighborhood there had been numerous break ins)- this is not disputable- this is what he said to the NEN dispatch.  NEN dispatch asked where Trayvon was and George followed him, but when NEN said "we don't need you to do that" George stopped (or there is no evidence that he continued to follow, the state is taking away your freedom therefore the state has the burden of proof).  Even Rachel Jeantel who was on the phone with Trayvon stated that he had lost George (and George told NEN dispatch he could no longer see Trayvon)- so Trayvon had four minutes to get what takes 45 seconds to walk home...  Rachel claims to hear the begining of the altercation but she never calls 911 and neither does Trayvon...  In any event, George has injuries and evidence supports his story of what happened that Trayvon was on top of him and beating his head into the cement (sidewalk). 

Are you suggesting that using the sidewalk to bash someone's head on is not a weapon?  Well, according to Florida State Law it is a weapon.  I could not imagine how I would feel if some stranger was on top of me pounding my head into the cement- but you bet I would be scared for my life.  Just a few weeks ago there was a story of a teen boy who punched a soccor referee in the head (one time!) and he died! So, I guess, you are saying that you consider something manslaughter even if it was in self defense?  Or maybe you are saying you just don't believe George's account... 

Obviously you do not have to agree with me (and I suspect you won't as we all have our own personal beliefs and I value this), we all have a right to our opinion. 

Hi Chary,

I like your status or quote thing, "I live here"-- is that a Sex and the City reference? I do love that show and movie.   And if you read my response to TykeMan you should see that I am not a troll, I am just a new person and found that this was a current thread and something I have been following closely so I wanted to jump in (as I have no friends here in England who are following). Sorry if I offended you in any way.

People are calling troll because usually users on this site introduce themselves and explain why they have found the site rather than starting off by posting an opinion that could be perceived as inflammatory on a very sensitive topic.

Born I think you are technically correct about this. I am no lawyer, but my reading of this is that under current law you can defend yourself if you feel threatened.

To me, however, something is not quite right with the laws or statutes or what-have-you.

Zimmerman was very foolish, i think, to try and track this kid down and question him. That's what the police are for. He is also very lucky he was not convicted - it could have gone either way.

Geeta,

I am sorry that I did not do an introduction thread.  I have been on many forums before and comment to sites without going through the whole intro thing and I have never had problems, first of all.  Second of all, this topic is the subject of debate many places across the internet and people are split about half and half on it.  I don't feel I have been insensitive to anyone.  I don't feel I have said anything very provacative.  This thread was to discuss the case, so in essence, this thread is to talk about something that may be upsetting to some people-- by it's very nature.  I still feel it is rude to start jumping down someone's throat and calling them a troll just because they are a new person to a forum.  I consider that "trolling" and highly disrespectful.  I am starting to regret actually coming onto a site that I can contribute to with my experience with visas to both USA and UK, my relationship, and other experiences that may be helpful to other expats in similar situations.  I also feel you are being a bit insensitive with your reply because it seems you are suggesting the same thing even though I explained I was new and tried to jump into a current thread where I have been keeping up to date and am informed on.  I do feel discouraged to take part in other sections of this forum and site due to the hostile nature in which my non-inflammatory comments were received-- so in a way, I may become what seems to be a "troll" because I was "profiled" by people before they got to know me and before I have even figured out my profile page or where to do intros and all that good stuff.  Like I said, it is highly discouraging to be attacked in such a manner where as others are quite honestly expressing more flippant and less backed up responses just because I hadn't yet posted an intro.  

Hi Sonofasailor,

I appreciate your response.  I personally don't believe Mr. Zimmerman should have gotten out of the truck.  I personally wouldn't have, but then again I am sometimes a paranoid indvidual.   Mr. Zimmerman has stated that he would have changed things that night (this is reported through Mr. O'Mara and Mr. Zimmerman also stated this on part of the Hannity interview that was interrupted due to the Aurora shooting but should still be available in cyber space somewhere).  I personally believe that both Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Martin made bad choices that night, and I truly believe this is a tragedy that took one life and ruined another life forever.  By the law, the jurors made the right choice.  That doesn't make this situation any less heartbreaking for anyone.  I do believe that laws should be reviewed to make sure that they still serve the people and do not work against them.  Again, thank you for the thoughtful discussion.

Fair enough, though my reasoning was to see someone jump into a debate such as this with their first posting, if you aren't a troll then welcome and I look forward to hearing your story elsewhere on the site as to what brought you along here.

Agreed it is not illegal to get out of a car, ill-advisable perhaps but not illegal, he was advised by the police, or at least the police despatcher, not to get out of the car and not to follow...neither was it illegal for Trayvon Martin to be walking along the streets with a bag of skittles and some pop, or for it to take him longer to get home than people think it should.

By the way, Mr. Zimmerman helped a family out of a smoking SUV that had rolled over this past Friday...  He is actually a decent person- not the villian the media has created.

This is an incredibly stupid and dangerous thing for an untrained person to do. He could have caused a serious, potentially life threatening injury and is only lucky that his attempt at being a vigilante paramedic didn't end as disastrously as his attempt at being a vigilante cop.

Also, he had previous arrests for domestic violence towards his ex-fiancee and assaulting an officer, and was accused of molestation by a female relative.

In addition, so many Zimmerman supporters have said he was too fat and out of shape to avoid using his gun. If that was true, how could he be the super awesome hero pulling people out of overturned cars?

NEN dispatch asked where Trayvon was and George followed him, but when NEN said "we don't need you to do that" George stopped (or there is no evidence that he continued to follow, the state is taking away your freedom therefore the state has the burden of proof). 

I'm sure I'm going to regret getting into this discussion, but wouldn't the evidence of Zimmerman continuing to follow Martin be the fact that they wound up fighting?  If Zimmerman stopped, how did the fight start?

I'm sure I'm going to regret getting into this discussion, but wouldn't the evidence of Zimmerman continuing to follow Martin be the fact that they wound up fighting?  If Zimmerman stopped, how did the fight start?

There is an allegation that Martin doubled back after reaching the house he was staying at and was looking for Zimmerman. IIRC (need to check this) there was something like a 4 minute gap between the initial 911 call (~100 yards from the house Martin was staying in) and the fatal gunshot.

There is an allegation that Martin doubled back after reaching the house he was staying at and was looking for Zimmerman.

Ah, ok. 

[sarcasm directed at no one in particular] Lucky for Zimmerman he killed the only other witness then. [/sarcasm]

I didn't follow this trial with great attention, but from what I've read it seems as though the jury followed the law and came to the only conclusion they could given the evidence presented.  I think the law itself is badly written, considering that it makes it a prudent strategy to kill the other person in a fight to keep them from being able to present their side of the story.

I think the law itself is badly written, considering that it makes it a prudent strategy to kill the other person in a fight to keep them from being able to present their side of the story.

That's the downside of "innocent until proven guilty" - to convict someone it forces you to show beyond reasonable doubt that they did it. With cases like this, the only realistic way of getting a conviction would be to move to a system like the Star Chamber or change the burden of proof to "guilty until proven innocent". Since I would personally rather see the guilty walk free than the innocent punished, I'm happy with the way it's set up at the moment.
The only other way to make it possible to convict Zimmerman on the evidence presented would be to remove any legal right to self-defence. That is also pretty abhorrent - it's basically a license for the predators in society to do as they will, confident that their victims won't resist for fear of judicial punishment.

Incidentally, your argument could also be used as a reason for criminals to kill all the witnesses to their crimes. By and large they don't.