Re: American accent in England(Regional Dialect Debate)

strike that.  I misread it. 

Interesting links.  I've been reading some this morning and will probably read more since it's a subject I find fascinating. 

I'm not sure, though, that you've absolutely proven the case with hard fact.  On this site, 24 is merely the number of major dialects.

http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/1906/dialects.html

So, I'd think that the sub-dialects would add up to many more.

Still, It's my opinion. 

ok lets look for linguistic facts rather than opinions

Here is the scientific dialect map of the USA, with explanations for and history of each dialect (24):
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/1906/dialects.html

Nice but here's a side by side comparison of England and the USA which puts the US at 16 dialects with 8 accents in the dialects for a total of 24 again, and England at 16 dialects including the accents. This is only for England, and does not include Scotland and Wales and the rest of the UK.
http://www.peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/chapters/accents.php

Looking further we find 5 minor dialects and 3 major dialects of Scots some of these sub-divided and making a total of 12 dialects. http://www.campusprogram.com/reference/en/wikipedia/s/sc/scots_language.html
which is further compounded by the fact that Scots is also it's own language recognized by both the British Government and the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages.

All 12 Scots dialects are found here on both a dialect map and a text explanation for each
http://www.scots-online.org/grammar/pronunci.htm#cairt

We are now up to 28 for the UK and have only touched Scotland and England so far. Let's continue on then.

Wales, in addition to having it's own language outright which has 2 different dialects http://www.estelnet.com/catalunyacymru/catala/gwent_y_wenhwyseg_mynegai_1e.htm, has 6 regional dialects.

This brings the score of the US vs the UK's main Isle to 24 for the USA and 36 for the UK. I could add in Northern Ireland etc, but I think I have made the point already, with fact rather than opinion.

Jared

I think that's all well and good, but clicking on that first link, I already see problems.  I would fall into dialect 21 because I was born and raised in coastal NC.  However, dialect 21 is also identfied in FL, SC (I'm pleased to see they identified the Gullah correctly!) , VA, GA, etc.  I know that I talk differently than my friends in VA and certainly differently when compared to my friends in GA.  What's more, there is a distinct difference in my language and accent when compared to central NC, which is also included in dialect 21.  The problem with these studies is that they don't take into account the regional variations within the dialect groups.  If all of the regional variations were taken into account, I feel sure that the US would have more dialect groups than the UK.  

And also, the fact that Scots and Welsh are languages with separate dialects is irrelevant.   We're talking about English dialects. 

Some very interesting links!  Thanks.

Nice but here's a side by side comparison of England and the USA which puts the US at 16 dialects with 8 accents in the dialects for a total of 24 again, and England at 16 dialects including the accents. This is only for England, and does not include Scotland and Wales and the rest of the UK.
http://www.peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/chapters/accents.php

This one explains why I say WimbleTon rather than WimbleDon -- something that drives my husband potty.

Looking further we find 5 minor dialects and 3 major dialects of Scots some of these sub-divided and making a total of 12 dialects. http://www.campusprogram.com/reference/en/wikipedia/s/sc/scots_language.html
which is further compounded by the fact that Scots is also it's own language recognized by both the British Government and the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages.

Are we not forgetting Gaelic which is also a protected minority language -- and has dialects of its own (Lewis v Skye v Arran).

And also, the fact that Scots and Welsh are languages with separate dialects is irrelevant.   We're talking about English dialects. 

We are ?
Isn't this how this particular topic got started ?

In terms of regional accents and dialects my observation is that the diversity in UK is much greater than in USA. This, despite UK being so much smaller geographically.
And many Brits would have difficulty in determining from accent whether someome was From the US or Canada.

The topic was moved and renamed sometime after that.

And also, the fact that Scots and Welsh are languages with separate dialects is irrelevant.   We're talking about English dialects. 

I see many more references to the UK rather than England, despite the thread title. Even Lexie's very first post refers to approaching UK companies.

(But I tell you what. We'll slice off Scotland and Wales if you get rid the Deep South  )

I am referring specifically to the post by  bduares which counted the Welsh and Scots languages as seperate dialects.  Not the Welsh or Scottish accent of spoken English.  Which is what I beleived we were talking about.

which is further compounded by the fact that Scots is also it's own language recognized by both the British Government and the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages.

and

Wales, in addition to having it's own language outright which has 2 different dialects

If you have a look at his post and read the articles that he links to you'll see what I mean. 

In this thread, when I say English, I mean the spoken language English, not the Nationality.  I was under the impression that is what we were talking about.  If I'm talking about the UK or the people who live there, I try to say the UK or British.  Unless I'm talking specifically about the Welsh, Scottish English or Northern Irish.   

 

The topic was moved and renamed sometime after that.

This topic was moved because it no longer pertained to 'jobs or working in the UK'  The title was changed to make it relevant to the topic, but to still make it possible for people to find. 

I think that's all well and good, but clicking on that first link, I already see problems.  I would fall into dialect 21 because I was born and raised in coastal NC.  However, dialect 21 is also identfied in FL, SC (I'm pleased to see they identified the Gullah correctly!) , VA, GA, etc.  I know that I talk differently than my friends in VA and certainly differently when compared to my friends in GA.  What's more, there is a distinct difference in my language and accent when compared to central NC, which is also included in dialect 21.  The problem with these studies is that they don't take into account the regional variations within the dialect groups.  If all of the regional variations were taken into account, I feel sure that the US would have more dialect groups than the UK.  

Well said, Lola! You certainly would sound very different to what I heard growing up, although more similar than a Pennsylvanian or New Yorker.

And what is with that NC glottal stop - as a kid I knew people from central NC and they wouldn't pronounce consonants in the middle of words? Do you have that as well?

Well said, Lola! You certainly would sound very different to what I heard growing up, although more similar than a Pennsylvanian or New Yorker.

And what is with that NC glottal stop - as a kid I knew people from central NC and they wouldn't pronounce consonants in the middle of words? Do you have that as well?

 
I guess I have a bit of it....really depends on how lazy I'm being when I talk.  Normally, I say "wader", "buder", and DH's fave, "dirdy".  So I tend to have very soft "d" and "t" sounds rather than completely omitting them (waer, buer, diry).    

My accent isn't quite as full-on as it should be because my grandfather's family comes from a little fishing village the Outer Banks and, as a result, I have a bit of the High-Tider mixed in with the Redneck!   

"Bonac (6)
Named for Accabonac Creek in eastern Long Island, this dialect is rapidly dying out due to the influx of people from other areas. Back when New York City belonged to the Dutch, this area was part of New England, and Bonac shows elements of both dialects." {from the article above}

Bonac??? Hmmm... Doesn't exist. "Rapidly died out" a long time ago... everyone has the same damn nasal accent out here. 

And this was cute too: "Unlike Boston and other urban dialects, New York City stands by itself and bears little resemblence to the other dialects in this region. It is also the most disliked and parodied of any American dialect (even among New Yorkers), possibly because many Americans tend dislike large cities."

The most dis-liked accent??!! Im weeping now... 

This topic was moved because it no longer pertained to 'jobs or working in the UK'  The title was changed to make it relevant to the topic, but to still make it possible for people to find. 

I have no problem with it being moved. I agree, it had gone off topic. I think that was my doing when I commented that UK has more accents than USA (which bduares seems to have confirmed with his neatly researched post).
Anyway, the new topic seems to have sparked some lively discussion so no apology for having moved it in a different direction.
I think the title should have referred to UK rather than England though !

And this was cute too: "Unlike Boston and other urban dialects, New York City stands by itself and bears little resemblence to the other dialects in this region. It is also the most disliked and parodied of any American dialect (even among New Yorkers), possibly because many Americans tend dislike large cities."

The most dis-liked accent??!! Im weeping now... 

Depends on the New Yorker! I kind of like it. It's like Seinfeld etc. etc. : How can you not like that? George Costanza's mother? I rest my case!

I think the title should have referred to UK rather than England though !

I explained that I left the origianal title so that it could be easily found.


You seem to have missed this post of mine.

I am referring specifically to the post by  bduares which counted the Welsh and Scots languages as seperate dialects.  Not the Welsh or Scottish accent of spoken English.  Which is what I beleived we were talking about.


Quote
which is further compounded by the fact that Scots is also it's own language recognized by both the British Government and the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages.

and


Quote
Wales, in addition to having it's own language outright which has 2 different dialects

If you have a look at his post and read the articles that he links to you'll see what I mean. 

In this thread, when I say English, I mean the spoken language English, not the Nationality.  I was under the impression that is what we were talking about.  If I'm talking about the UK or the people who live there, I try to say the UK or British.  Unless I'm talking specifically about the Welsh, Scottish English or Northern Irish.