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Topic: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)  (Read 2375 times)

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A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« on: October 25, 2013, 09:05:00 PM »
I have been puzzling over this for some time, and just remembered that we have a resident expert on the subject.  Any other opinions/observations are welcome as well.

I work outside, in a industry that is governed by the weather so I have a great interest in keeping an eye on the weather.  Up until recently, I've been fond of the site www.metcheck.com/uk because of amount of information and format.  As unpredictable as the weather is, it's nice to have an idea of whats coming in the next week.  The other site I use is www.metoffice.co.uk, and sometimes BBC weather.

Lately, I find the Metcheck forecast is different from the others, and it always seems to be saying is going to rain when it doesn't.

I'm so confused!  Are they not the same office?  Am I missing something? 

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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2013, 09:35:10 PM »
I'm so confused!  Are they not the same office?  Am I missing something? 

No, they aren't the same office.

There are several different competing meteorological organisations in the UK (a main one being Meteogroup - they seem to be our rivals in the media)- in fact, if I leave the Met Office, there is actually a list of other UK met organisations I'm not supposed to go and work for immediately after leaving.

The Met Office provides forecasts to a number of different customers, the biggest customer being the military, plus the BBC and a number of other companies (retail, utility companies, local councils etc), but it depends which contracts we get...other met organisations may have different customer contracts.

I've never heard of Metcheck before and don't know anything about their forecasts. Looking at their site, they seem to have websites in several different countries.

I'm a little biased (obviously), so I would recommend sticking with the Met Office and BBC websites :P.

I would also be careful about how much stock you put into forecasts for more than 4 or 5 days ahead. We're pretty accurate up to 4 or 5 days (a 4-day forecast today is as good as a 1-day forecast 30 years ago), but after that, things become more unpredictable and uncertain. While we can usually get a good handle on general trends (getting colder or warmer, whether it will be calm or unsettled), the details are harder to pin down until closer to the time.


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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2013, 11:27:48 PM »
Thank you, K!  I will stick with the Met Office.

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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2013, 07:55:23 AM »
Since we are on the subject, what is your opinion of Accuweather? I tend to use it and like that they give hourly forecasts but if you feel the BBC is better perhaps I may give them a go.
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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2013, 08:21:05 AM »
Even though I know the BBC gets their info from the Met Office, I find that it's not updated quickly enough for me. Is that possible, ksand? It seems to me that the Met Office is more up-to-date, while the BBC takes longer to reflect changes in the forecast.

Anyway, I always stick with the Met Office!  :)
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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2013, 08:57:34 AM »
Since we are on the subject, what is your opinion of Accuweather? I tend to use it and like that they give hourly forecasts but if you feel the BBC is better perhaps I may give them a go.

Honestly, I don't really check sites like Accuweather very often so I'm not sure how accurate they are. When I'm at work I can just write my own forecast and when I'm not at work, I tend to take a break from looking at the weather :P.

If I check any sites, I usually go to the Met Office site, but I look at the surface charts and the rainfall radar and then work out the weather from those. Or I look at the coded forecasts for the local airports because that's the forecast format that I'm most familiar with.

Even though I know the BBC gets their info from the Met Office, I find that it's not updated quickly enough for me. Is that possible, ksand? It seems to me that the Met Office is more up-to-date, while the BBC takes longer to reflect changes in the forecast.

I'm not really sure of the logistics of the BBC and how they update their website, but it might be because the Met Office has dozens of forecasters working 24/7, updating the forecasts constantly - there's a whole team of forecasters working on the public weather scripts and updating the website.


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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2013, 09:29:22 AM »
Thanks for the input :)
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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2013, 11:40:41 AM »
KS, I hope you don't mind me asking such a broad question, is predicting UK weather harder than for some other areas?
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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2013, 05:27:32 PM »
KS, I hope you don't mind me asking such a broad question, is predicting UK weather harder than for some other areas?

Well, I've only predicted the weather for the UK and for the Falkland Islands (and soon for Ascension Island) so it's hard for me to tell if it's harder elsewhere.

The UK has more changeable weather than other countries because we're an island and we have air masses coming at us from all directions - there are 6 different air masses which affect us and all of them bring different types of weather. However, if we know which air mass is headed our way then we can get a good idea of what type of weather we'll get, just by looking at a pressure chart.

Once we know the air mass then we can look at the real-time weather using both manual observations (someone monitoringg the current weather at their location all through the day) and automatic observations to see what's happening right now, plus model data produced by our supercomputer, to pin down the details and because our UK models are high resolution and we have hundreds of observations to look at, we can generally predict the weather pretty accurately (i.e. I can tell a pilot how many minutes it will be before a snow shower hits the airfield).

Other areas and countries have less air masses affecting them (i.e. continental US) so will have less changeable weather. However, they may have more extreme weather than the UK (tornadoes, hurricanes, much colder or hotter seasons). So it will depend on how accurate their forecast models are and how the forecasters work as to how accurately they can predict the weather.

Down here in the Falklands there's no Gulf Stream to regulate the sea temperature and very little land mass, so we also get very changeable weather (we get more sunshine than the UK, but snow is possible all year round) and pretty strong winds - on Tuesday this week it was snowing and 5 degrees, on Friday it was sunny and 16 degrees, but on Monday we'll have strong winds and snow showers again.

It's harder to predict and monitor the weather here than in the UK because we only have two manual observations (one done by ourselves on base and one by the airport in Stanley) and three automatic observations (mountain sites), available for the whole of the South Atlantic ocean. That's it. Apart from those five, there is no other real time information for hundreds of miles (unless the navy ships and RAF aircraft can give us reports from their locations), and with no rainfall radar either we're essentially working blind when it comes to the finer details.

We also only have coarse model data available... plus, we have antiquated technology and use more manual techniques than in the UK - we're still using Window NT and floppy disks at work, we have to manually type a lot of things that are done electronically in the UK and our daily sunshine hours are recorded using a glass sphere and a sunshine card (the sunlight hits the sphere and burns through the card). So, it's harder here to get the details and timings right - i.e. we can tell pilots that snow showers are on their way and may affect the airfield at times, but we aren't able to work out exactly where or when they will hit because we can't see them to track them.


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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2013, 05:58:08 PM »
Off topic, but my 10 year old wants to be a meteorologist.  We went on a tour of the Met Office in Exeter last month and it was pretty interesting.  I just wish they would have spent a bit more time on the science of forecasting the weather instead of how energy efficient the building is. 
I'm a bit of a weather junkie-when we lived in the States I used to watch the Weather Channel for hours on end.  Yes, I know I'm strange.....


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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2013, 05:59:51 PM »
KS, I hope you don't mind me asking such a broad question, is predicting UK weather harder than for some other areas?

I had wondered about this, too (I asked DH, "where one's your weather come from?" but I don't think he understood what I was asking let alone the answer). I'm from the middle of the California coast and our weather either comes from Mexico (warm) or Alaska (cold) or both (storms).


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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2013, 06:40:13 PM »
Off topic, but my 10 year old wants to be a meteorologist.  We went on a tour of the Met Office in Exeter last month and it was pretty interesting.  I just wish they would have spent a bit more time on the science of forecasting the weather instead of how energy efficient the building is.
Wow - cool that she wants to be a meteorologist :).

The building in Exeter is pretty nice (I spent 6 months training in the college in 2010/11 and then 12 weeks there last summer working in research) and they do like to mention the energy efficiency of it and the fact that they built it around the stream that flows through the middle of The Street :P.

If you're interested in the science of the forecasting, we have forecasters who do STEM work and they sometimes go out to give talks to local schools about the the job and forecasting the weather - several RAF and AAC stations have Met Offices on site and I know some of my colleagues at the bases have given talks to local kids before (AAC Middle Wallop and RAF Odiham stations are only about 25 miles from Winchester, assuming that's where you are).

I know we have had work experience kids come to visit our office on base before, and even a couple of the RAF on-base primary school kids have come to see what we do as well, but I'm not sure how easy it is to arrange a visit because of the security issues of being a civilian on base (I believe secondary school work experience has to be arranged well in advance so the security forms can be sorted out).

See: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/who/sustainability/community/uk

ETA: Did you see the education section on the Met Office website: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/education/kids
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 07:09:46 PM by ksand24 »


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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2013, 09:05:06 PM »
Wow - cool that she wants to be a meteorologist :).

The building in Exeter is pretty nice (I spent 6 months training in the college in 2010/11 and then 12 weeks there last summer working in research) and they do like to mention the energy efficiency of it and the fact that they built it around the stream that flows through the middle of The Street :P.

If you're interested in the science of the forecasting, we have forecasters who do STEM work and they sometimes go out to give talks to local schools about the the job and forecasting the weather - several RAF and AAC stations have Met Offices on site and I know some of my colleagues at the bases have given talks to local kids before (AAC Middle Wallop and RAF Odiham stations are only about 25 miles from Winchester, assuming that's where you are).

I know we have had work experience kids come to visit our office on base before, and even a couple of the RAF on-base primary school kids have come to see what we do as well, but I'm not sure how easy it is to arrange a visit because of the security issues of being a civilian on base (I believe secondary school work experience has to be arranged well in advance so the security forms can be sorted out).

See: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/who/sustainability/community/uk

ETA: Did you see the education section on the Met Office website: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/education/kids

  :)
Yeah, The Street was pretty cool. The Met Office also gave DD a book about the weather that she enjoyed. 
 We aren't far from Middle Wallop-prior to moving to Winchester we lived in a village nearby.  I used to know a family that lived on base but they have since transferred back to the States. 
Now to think of a way to get our 10 yr old included in any talks they give.  She would love that!  Thank you for the info and sorry for hijacking the thread. 


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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2013, 10:56:13 PM »
Thank you for the info and sorry for hijacking the thread. 

Same here....this could easily turn into a 'ask the weather person' sort of thing....but it's just so darned interesting.
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Re: A question about weather forecasting (hey, ksand!)
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2013, 10:53:51 AM »
I started writing this reply yesterday evening and then I had to go out before I was able to post it... so here it is now:

Now to think of a way to get our 10 yr old included in any talks they give.  She would love that!  Thank you for the info and sorry for hijacking the thread. 
No problem :).

I don't think they give talks as a regular thing - I think it's usually something you (or the school) actively have to organise, but we've had forecasters being asked to talk at Brownies/Scouts/Guides meetings etc. as well as schools before and it's not difficult to sort out.

If you can, it might be worth trying to contact the Met Office at Middle Wallop to ask if they might be able to do something. I work in the northern UK region so I don't really have any contact with the southern England stations - I only know one of the forecasters at Middle Wallop, but she will be working with me on Ascension Island in a few weeks time.

They filmed an episode of Countryfile at Middle Wallop in 2011 and they did a section on the Met Office there, if you and your daughter would like to see what the military side of things is like for a forecaster (Emma, who talks in the video at about 3 minutes is a friend of mine - she was on my training course): AAC Middle Wallop

BFBS also did a news story on the Met Office here in the Falklands in 2012 - another of my training course colleagues (Joe) is interviewed in it: The Met Men of The Falkland Islands 13.06.12


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