Your experience with US schools vs. UK schools

I don't know:  there's a lot of talk out there nowadays about the value of university degree vs practical job skills (e.g. plumbing, physical therapy, etc.)

Also, I am not sure that today's kids are the brightest ever to have existed.

I am battling middle age, and I read this article on the "10 Warning Signs that You are Becoming Your Father". One of the things was that you don't recognise any of the bands/artists in the top 10. Looking through them now a few look familiar....but I have never heard any of the songs. Another thing was that a "Dad Chair" develops....and I'll be damned if I haven't sort of taken over a chair in the salon. The big one was that you start feeling like everything was better back in your day; we were more respectful, harder working, we didn't use slang and kept our trousers pulled up and belted tight. I don't know what all this stuff is about climbing trees and building camps in the woods. A camp in the woods is where I started smoking - and quitting has been and continues to be hell.

So I have begun naturally pushing back at these notions that things were better fifteen years ago (it always seems to be 10 to 20 years - the time when the writer was coming along....why not 120 years?). It may be that we are just propping up our own egos at a time when we feel our own value is beginning to slip (mental acuity begins to erode at 40 or something, not seriously until much later, but to a degree).

These feelings are then perhaps used to justify all sorts of anti-youth, ageist actions....like not hiring the girl with the nose ring or whatever. The reality is that my generation, and my parents', have served up the youth of today a f*ck up of historic proportion. They will end up paying dearly for it.

I have a few suggestions for businesses unhappy with the quality of applicants. Why not set up a meeting with the local University and see about establishing some sort of partnership to better developing writing skills. Maybe scholarships? Why not have an in-house training programme? Because then you can tailor it to specific spec. What about apprenticeships? What recruitment process is the business using...are they going out to career days and such at universities? Why not hire an older person  in a part time job share with a young person so they can build on each others' strengths?

If it is purely a complaint that public education is not pumping out ready-made workers, then we will need to address things like funding. Perhaps business should begin to contribute more.

I came across this in a google search.  I have not had experience with UK schools, but I can tell you about the schools here in the state of Missouri.
     I pulled my children from the public school here, and it was not for religious reasons.  Even for young children, 5&6 years old, they are expected to sit and work, with one bathroom break mid morning. They have 15 minutes to eat lunch at 11 am, then they are allowed 15 minutes to play during recess until 11:30.  Then they go back to work, with no more breaks or snacks.  If a child does need to use the restroom they lose points, after losing a certain number of points they lose their recess time.
    Then there is the taking their lunch away for unpaid library, fees.  It has happened several times here. I am unsure how so many schools in the US get away with this, but they do.  In our school the secretary walked in, took a 10 year old girl's lunch away from her and threw it away. Another student tried to buy her a lunch and they refused to allow it, when another student tried to share a lunch, that student was punished by losing their lunch.  She got ahold of a phone and called her mother, who came to the school and picked her up.
     I am sure every school in the US does not allow this, in fact I have friends in other states that are horrified this goes on here.  But our school is terrible, if I could I would move to the UK. 

In our school the secretary walked in, took a 10 year old girl's lunch away from her and threw it away.

What a sh*tty person.

I doubt it's possible to make a meaningful comparison since both countries have good and bad schools.   We're quite happy with our Boston area school district: there's a strong emphasis on academics.   But it's also very elitist and our daughter has struggled to participate in extra curricular activities because of the elitism.

I think in both countries you pay your money (either private education or expensive houses in good districts) and make your choice.

An update.   We've moved from Needham MA to a village just west of Cambridge.    The local secondary school is rated excellent by the UK government and generally also by parents.

The problem we have is that our daughter is an average student (on a good day) but a hard worker, and it looks like she will not be accepted for A levels by our local school, and may even fail to make the cut for A levels at local 6th form colleges if she has a bad exam day in her GCSEs.

She's also not an obvious candidate for the more useful vocational studies, and I'd hate for her to be kicked into a B-Tec in media studies or similar, which drastically curtail future educational paths.

So now we're wondering if we've made a mistake and should head back to MA to keep her options open for high school, college and beyond.   When we moved to this village we had no idea that their 6th form admission policy was so elitist.

Honestly?

This is my fear of having my kids in school in the UK.  From the outside (my kid is only a year and a half), it seems very exam based and that you need to know 'what you want to be when you grow up' at a young age.

I had a lot of fun in high school.     Then I worked as a professional dancer touring the U.S. and at Disney, before deciding I should consider a university level education.  I was able to then start university in my 20's, took it really seriously and have the grades to prove it.  I don't think I would have been a success story in the UK system.

Best of luck.  Let us know how things turn out.  Is the school supporting her?

Due to a developmental disability she is a very late starter and rather immature for her age with poor organizational and study skills, so I worry the UK system might write her off before she's had a chance to mature and show her true potential.

I think we'll ask the school if we can have a discussion about her future nearer Christmas when her teachers have had a chance to get to know her.  We'll ask the teachers for their thoughts on the probability of her getting the 5 B grade GCSEs required to stay and do A levels at the local school, and the probability of the 7 C grade GCSEs required to do A levels at the local 6th form college.

If they're not confident she'll meet either grade I think we'll head back to the US for her to finish school / college.

Cambridge has a central 6th form that siphons off all of the straight A children (Hills Road), and the village colleges have set up their own 6th forms which are siphoning off the A/B children, so if you have a C grade child or below you're forced out of your school catchment into the catch-all 6th forms in the city (which may not be too bad, provided they are good schools: we would have to look into that).    If your child misses the 7 C grades at age 16 then their academic future is more or less stopped dead in its tracks and they are moved into vocational training, whether it's a good fit for them or not. 

Moving back to the US would be expensive, but better to admit it was a mistake than compromise her education, though I'm certainly not wanting to go back to the US healthcare system.

My one concern with the school in Needham MA was that they seemed to grade by effort rather than ability, so last year she was an A/B student even though I know academically she's more of a low C student (in the state wide standardized tests).

However I would warn US parents contemplating a move to the UK that if they have a child who is academically average or lower, and if that child is not an obvious candidate to move into vocational training (technician, nursing, auto mechanics) at age 16, then they might not be able to follow an academic path beyond age 16.   If you are in a good school district in the US a low average child who wants to take an academic path into college might be better served by staying in the US.   This would be particularly true if the child might be a "late bloomer".

This would be particularly true if the child might be a "late bloomer".

We'll this is the thing. And it may really have nothing to do with ability....just that a kid hasn't really figured out what they can/want to do. Some kids may know exactly what they want to do in life at a very early age....but I bet most don't.

It does feel as though, in the UK, they begin forcing decisions at a younger age.

The ironic thing is she does know what she wants to do (as much as any 14 yr old): she wants to be a speech therapist and work with children with language disabilities, which is what she has had to overcome.

I'd estimate she's about 3 years delayed in maturity compared to her peers so having to make a cut at age 16 is particularly tough.

This is my fear of having my kids in school in the UK.  From the outside (my kid is only a year and a half), it seems very exam based and that you need to know 'what you want to be when you grow up' at a young age.

I would put is slightly differently.   If you are academically able you can keep your options open by choosing sensible A levels.   I think if you are academically able you'll do fine in either the UK or US system.

However if you are not performing at a grade C or above at age 16 (GCSE) then your future options may be severely restricted, even if you later develop better study skills.   You may not have the option to keep your future options open.

If at age 16 you are below grade C but have a clear vision of your future employment then the post 16 vocational courses (BTec, diploma) may be a good path.

so having to make a cut at age 16 is particularly tough.

Just imagining an American outcome. She works hard and gets through regular high school courses with a 3.1. Goes to community college and graduates with an AA/AS. Then into university.

It's not only do-able, it is probably common.

Is there that sort of option in the UK? Or more so, is it an option that is as easily done as in the US?  Or is that sort of thing "bucking the system"?

Just a quick reply here, but what about regular FE colleges rather than specifically Sixth Form colleges?

FE colleges offer much more than just vocational courses and probably have lower grade requirements - you can do all kinds of things there, like retake GSCEs if you need to, take A-levels (often with a wider variety of subjects on offer than at a Sixth Form) do vocational courses, take things like computing courses etc.

I have several friends from secondary school who chose to go to FE college for their A levels instead of Sixth Form and they ended up going to uni and getting good degrees. One of them stayed there for several years and kept taking more A levels - I think she got 6 or 7 in the end!

In fact, I probably should have gone to FE college instead of my school's Sixth Form because my Sixth Form years were miserable for me - my grades were good, but that was the only upside... Apart from that, my social life fell apart and I suffered from depression and social anxiety for most of the 2 years :S.


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I can understand your concern, sdt but can offer no advice really.  Just our own experience:  our elder child, a daughter, went through the state system in the UK and had obviously got some attention as an achiever.  We were lead to believe she would do well at exams.  She had firmly decided she wanted to study drama/music at uni.  Then somehow she pranged her A-levels.  It may have been because there had been a fire at her school's drama centre and all their project work was ruined.  And they were not given benefit of the doubt by the board.  So she was turned down by all three of her choices for uni and went to pieces.  She took a year out, did some baby-sitting but pretty much just wallowing.  At clearing the following year she was offered a place at Nene to do drama and music.  Not exactly up to the standard she had been expecting, but still she pulled her act together and did fairly well.  And went on to get a master's in psychology of music at Sheffield.

Our son was 4 years younger and very laid back -- perhaps somewhat dyslexic but getting no help with that.  He started at the same high school but I was worried he'd do even worse than his sister.  At that time I had to go back to Boston to care for aging parents so we decided to enter him in public high school there (Winchester, fairly elite).  It was tough for him at first but I feel he did quite well considering.  He also took part in things there he would not have had in the UK high school:  studying photography and developing a talent for that, taking part in sports teams and gaining confidence in himself.  His SAT's were good and he was accepted by four of his college choices.

Footnote: he made a bad choice in deciding to go to a large impersonal US university.  He had mono and they were unsupportive so he dropped out and has no interest in going back.  So, it's swings and roundabouts ...