Do these new NHS rules affect my wife whos on FLR on a spouse Visa?

Hello all

I was reading this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28291276 [nofollow]

and was wondering if this would affect my wife who is on FLR on a Spouse Visa and cant apply for ILR for another year yet. All it says is

Under the plans, non-EU patients receiving a £100 procedure could get a bill of up to £150

ie Non-EU patients, but does that mean ALL non EU Patients? ie those on FLR on a Spouse Visa?

Hope someone can help?

An FLR is a settlement visa, so your wife is not affected.

If you want some bedtime reading, this gives all the details of the proposed legislation.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/recovering-costs-of-nhs-healthcare-from-visitors-and-migrants

The main priority of the bill is to stop "NHS Tourists" from abusing the system.
Case in point: the hospital where I work at recently had a woman come in for a hip replacement.  She lives in Kenya and claimed to be visiting family here.  What she was actually after was a free hip replacement (and a holiday in the UK as an added bonus).
That's what this bill is aimed at stopping.  Not sure it will help, but it's a place to start.

I'm all for them cracking down on visitors using the NHS Inappropriately, but charging 125% of the normal cost seems, well, illegal. That sort of thing would absolutely be unconstitutional in the US (the charging extra part, I mean. Not charging for it generally)

Do you know if settlement visas are the only ones excluded? Or are PBS visas excluded as well? Sorry, I haven't got time to read through that link.

She lives in Kenya and claimed to be visiting family here.  What she was actually after was a free hip replacement (and a holiday in the UK as an added bonus).

Those damned Kenyans and their replacement hips!

An FLR is a settlement visa, so your wife is not affected.

If you want some bedtime reading, this gives all the details of the proposed legislation.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/recovering-costs-of-nhs-healthcare-from-visitors-and-migrants [nofollow]

The main priority of the bill is to stop "NHS Tourists" from abusing the system.
Case in point: the hospital where I work at recently had a woman come in for a hip replacement.  She lives in Kenya and claimed to be visiting family here.  What she was actually after was a free hip replacement (and a holiday in the UK as an added bonus).
That's what this bill is aimed at stopping.  Not sure it will help, but it's a place to start.

Thanks for that reply. Very helpful. I had a look at the link thank you, I did a CTRL/F search for FLR or Spouse Visa but the only thing I found was this

Indefinite leave to remain (ILR)
Indefinite leave to remain (often known as ‘ILR’ and ‘settlement’) is
permission to remain in the UK without any time restrictions on the length of stay

But FLR is time restricted to 2 years (old Rules) and 5 years (new rules)? So I couldn't find anything about FLR or Spouse Visa on that link?

Who will be
charged?
Non-EEA temporary
migrants (including
students and
workers)
Will be expected to pay a health surcharge as part of
the visa process, unless they are exempted. This will
mean they are entitled to use the NHS, as an ordinarily
resident patient would, whilst they have valid leave to
remain (usually between 6 months to 5 years).

I have a sneaking suspicion this means the next FLR(M) visa will have a huge cost jump if/when these regulations go into affect unless we're lucky enough to be in the exempted category.

There is a bit about Ordinary Residents exempted - which I think we would have been considered previously, but there's a new definition of that coming into effect next year that will limit that for non-EEA to those with ILR.

Ordinary
residence (OR)
OR is not defined in legislation but the concept has been developed by
case law. A person will be OR in the UK when their residence is lawful,
adopted voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order
of his or her life for the time being, whether of short or long duration.
The concept of “settled purpose” has also been developed by the courts.
There may be one purpose or several, it may be specific or general, and it
may be for a limited period. All that is necessary is that the purpose for
living in the UK has a sufficient degree of continuity to properly be
described as settled. Determination of OR is ultimately a question of fact
and will depend on the individual circumstances of each case.
The Immigration Act 2014 changes the meaning of OR in respect of
non-EEA nationals subject to immigration control will not be able to be
classed as ordinarily resident unless they have indefinite leave to remain
in the UK, i.e. they are also a permanent resident of the UK. The new
definition is expected to commence in early 2015/16.

I'm not going to lie, if we do have to pay a large surcharge I'll be a bit angry considering I work and pay taxes so I don't really see why I should also have to pay extra on top of that to be covered under NHS.

I have to say, from what it says, it does sound like a spouse would have to pay the surcharge if they apply for an FLR(M) visa... which looks like it will be £200 per year, charged in full as part of the visa fee... so for a 2.5-year FLR(M), it would presumably be £500 on top of the FLR(M) fee. But, they would then not have to pay anything else for NHS treatment after that - the £200 per year gives the normal NHS access.

helloeveryone, you said your wife will be applying for ILR in a year, and so chances are this won't affect her anyway as it seems like it's only people applying for a temporary visa who will have to pay. Plus, the surcharge won't be introduced until the 2015/2016 financial year anyway and will probably take a while to be fully implemented, so she may even have already applied for ILR before all this comes into play anyway.

From the document:

100.
The Immigration Act 2014 changes the meaning of ‘ordinarily resident’ for the purposes of the NHS Act so that in the future non-EEA nationals will not be deemed ordinarily resident unless they have been granted Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) in the UK. Building on this, the Act also allows legislation to be introduced that will require those non-EEA nationals subject to immigration control who are coming to the UK for more than six months to pay an ‘immigration health surcharge’ (surcharge) with their visa application fee. This is expected to be £150 per year for students and £200 per year for others, and will be paid upfront for the duration of the visa. There will be limited exemptions e.g. for those seeking asylum, refugees and victims of human trafficking.

101.
Many of those who can currently access NHS care for free upon moving to the UK will instead be contributing towards the cost of any NHS care they need during their stay. Those who pay the surcharge (or are exempt from paying it) will then be able to access the NHS on the same basis as a resident for as long as their leave to remain is valid.

Alex, we are going to write to our MP about this.  We are going to call out how much we pay in taxes each year and that we draw ZERO benefits, not even child benefit (we recently had a baby).  My husband is very upset about the levy.  I explained that the UK wants people to emigrate, to reduce numbers.  My husband had a good point... We aren't the ones they are hoping to leave (skilled labor and high tax payers).

Nothing will change but at least we can let our displeasure known.

and was wondering if this would affect my wife who is on FLR on a Spouse Visa and cant apply for ILR for another year yet. All it says is

Under the plans, non-EU patients receiving a £100 procedure could get a bill of up to £150

This will not affect your wife as that part is for the benefit tourists and will, no doubt, include Brits who don't reside in the UK as they too are not allowed to use the NHS for free.

Visitors using A&E for free treatment for minor things to avoid buying a health insurance policy, and those on immigrant forums who tell people to do this, have now spoilt that for the genuine who really have had an accident. At some point, they will be billed for A&E visits, unless it a life threatening condition that just came on i.e. an unexpected heart attack. This all came in under the Immigration Bill that became law in May 2014 and will be brought in at some time as it is now law.

I did post about it on the visa forums back in May.
http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=82892.0

Do you know if settlement visas are the only ones excluded? Or are PBS visas excluded as well? Sorry, I haven't got time to read through that link.

That part of the law is intended to catch those who aren't allowed free NHS, and that includes non resident Brits.

The new Immigration Bill that became law in May 2014,
http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=82892.0
will affect those that don't have ILR. I doubt it will affect those already on a visa in the UK. We will find out soon enough which visas they intend to start with, but it is written so that it affects everyone without ILR.

It's reinforcing that it's the National Health Service (NHS) and not the International Health Service it has become. It is health care for British nationals and those that show a committment to the UK (those with ILR). Internationals wanting to come to the UK, will pay a levy before they are allowed to use the NHS for free.

They won't pay for every treatment, so it is still very generous, but they will pay a small NHS levy if they have a visa of over 6 months. Those with a visa under 6 months, still won't get free NHS and will now find it almost impossible to get free NHS.  

We don't know how much that levy will be yet as it hasn't been set although the government has said it will be cheaper than private insurance. For that levy, they will get access to the NHS, but will be excluded from expensive discretionary treatment until they have ILR.

If their visa is denied, then they get the NHS levy back. Their national insurance number will be date stamped until their visa ends, or removed if their visa is withdrawn.

Alex, we are going to write to our MP about this.

Too late. The Immigration Bill had it's first reading last year. I posted about it.
http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2013-14/immigration/stages.html
Then it became law in May 2014 and became the Immigration Act and I posted again.

From what I read, marrying on a visitor visa was also covered under that bill, as well as making it even easier to remove UK citizenship, diluting the Human Rights Act, fines for landlords who rent to illegals, NHS changes etc.

We are going to call out how much we pay in taxes each year and that we draw ZERO benefits, not even child benefit (we recently had a baby).

 

I doubt it will affect you as you are still in the UK, but if you weren't and you wanted a visa when the new rules came in, you still would get that birth and all your care for free on the NHS. The levy will pay for all of that and there is no limit to how much the NHS will spend on you if the treatment is needed.

We aren't the ones they are hoping to leave (skilled labor and high tax payers).

Then be aware that if you were planning to return to the UK in old age for free NHS after paying your taxes to another country, or rushing back to the UK if you suddenly need expensive healthcare, then they may have brought in a residency requirment for those UK citizens who have been out of the UK for x years. Canada does this too with it's returning citizens.

The government talked about giving free NHS to all Brits regardless of where they lived, but the response to that question was that people wanted a residency requirement for returning Brits who had paid their taxes to another country . As you pointed out, the NHS is paid for by taxes.

Thanks all for your help! SO my wife should not be affected at all? How about when she applys for ILR next year, will she have to pay the levy on top if the visa fee do you know?

We have been trying to conceive but no success, so were thinking of looking into fertility treatment but it concerns me that we would get a Bill try and get fertility treatment on the NHS even if we had to pay a levy charge? as it would be considered expensive discretionary treatment? either now or after she gets her ILR?

Thanks all for your help! SO my wife should not be affected at all? How about when she applys for ILR next year, will she have to pay the levy on top if the visa fee do you know?

I doubt it will affect those already with visas. Although the new law is in and is written so that it affects all without ILR, it has not been acted on yet. They haven't even stopped the free A&E yet for visitors yet.

They will work out a levy and work out whcih visas they will start with; then we will hear about it.

We have been trying to conceive but no success, so were thinking of looking into fertility treatment but it concerns me that we would get a Bill try and get fertility treatment on the NHS even if we had to pay a levy charge? as it would be considered expensive discretionary treatment? either now or after she gets her ILR?

Your wife presently has a visa that gives her free NHS, they won't bill you afterwards. Those on short term visas like Tier 2 (ICT) would not get fertility treatment for free, but your wife is on a spouse visa and will.

Too late. The Immigration Bill had it's first reading last year. I posted about it.

I'm aware that nothing will change, which is why I said it.  We are still contacting our MP though.  He knows who we are and we would like to express our thoughts and opinions on how the blanket laws are affecting individuals.

I doubt it will affect you as you are still in the UK, but if you weren't and you wanted a visa when the new rules came in, you still would get that birth and all your care for free on the NHS. The levy will pay for all of that and there is no limit to how much the NHS will spend on you if the treatment is needed.

I didn't get my birth for free.  Firstly, I pay 45% of my salary in taxes, plus NI.  I just didn't pay at the point of service.  Big difference.  Based on the problems I had, we have decided we will go private next time (if we choose to have a second).

I didn't get my birth for free.  Firstly, I pay 45% of my salary in taxes, plus NI.  I just didn't pay at the point of service.  Big difference.  

The NHS is the National Health Service, for UK nationals. Perhaps people just use the name NHS without thinking about what it's an abbreviation for? The UK government has made it quite clear for years, that they intend to "return the NHS to the national health service and not the world health service it has become", so this shouldn't really be a surprise.

It's still very generous and they haven't yet gone to the lengths some western countires go to protect their health service for their nationals. i.e. medicals to pass before a visa. Although I suppose those who are fit and healthy would rather have a medical and then get free NHS, but what about those immigrants with existing health conditions or weight problems?