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Topic: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350  (Read 3347 times)

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Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2014, 11:50:41 AM »
Thanks very much, you two.  So encouraging.  (I’m even wondering if it can be done in another country -- I have pals in Zagreb...)
I wonder if you could point me to a dependable website that will list *all* the documents required and lead us by the hand through the process.  Jus’ linin’ up my ducks.


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Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2014, 12:56:39 PM »
AFAIK there isn't much to line up.

On the Edinburgh Embassy website (here) it says:
Quote
Renuncitiation of U.S. Citizenship.  A U.S. citizen who wishes to renounce their citizenship must, voluntarily and with the intention of renouncing their citizenship, appear before a consular officer and sign an oath/affirmation of renunciation.  Renunciation can only take place outside the United States.  If you wish to renounce your citizenship please send an e-mail to Edinburgh-Info@state.gov or write to U.S. Consulate General Edinburgh, Consular Section, 3 Regent Terrace, Edinburgh EH7 5BW stating that you wish to renounce your citizenship and including your mailing address so that we can send you further information.  Information on the legal basis for renunciation can be found on our London embassy website http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new/acs/passports/renunciation.html.

I seem to remember they mailed me forms to send in, then I had a phone interview with the consulate to make sure I knew what renouncing entailed, then I got an appointment to appear for renunciation.

I think all I had to bring for renunciation were my two passports (UK and US), and my credit card to pay the fee.
Moved to London February 5, 2010


Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2014, 01:20:02 PM »
Oh, good.  For some reason I thought we needed a birth certificate (which might have been a further complication).  I don't know why I thought that.
Thanks again!


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Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2014, 01:32:49 PM »
Oh, good.  For some reason I thought we needed a birth certificate (which might have been a further complication).  I don't know why I thought that.
Thanks again!

I don't think I needed one? But I don't remember - Edinburgh consulate was very good about answering questions (I had to schedule around a medical procedure), so it's worth an e-mail to ask.
Moved to London February 5, 2010


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Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2014, 07:24:01 PM »
Sorry for being a bit clueless, but I am just wondering, why would you ever need to renounce US citizenship?

My husband arrived in June 2012 on a Fiance visa, we converted to a FLR(M) in November 2013 and we are just getting ready to submit ILR.
As far as we knew, he will apply for UK citizenship next June and then he can apply for a passport. We just assumed he would then just have two passports. Is this not the case?

Thank you all as always for your help :)


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Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2014, 08:04:13 PM »
As far as we knew, he will apply for UK citizenship next June and then he can apply for a passport. We just assumed he would then just have two passports. Is this not the case?

Yes, you're correct; your husband will have two passports.

People renounce US citizenship for all kinds of reasons.  Maybe they don't want to pay US taxes any longer, or they had US citizenship from a parent but never lived there and never felt "American" or whatever.


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Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2014, 11:35:32 PM »
To rephrase an old joke:
Q.: Why are US citizenship renunciations so expensive?
A.: Because they are worth it!


Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2014, 04:38:56 PM »
A friend of mine is currently going through this, and the consulate is trying to give her the runaround, making out like she must pay and has to renounce rather than relinquish, but she knows her rights and is standing firm, though it now seems to be taking longer and requiring more hassle than when I went through it last year. !

Any updates on this?  How did it turn out?


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Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2014, 09:18:27 AM »
Her appointment at the consulate is today, I'll update when I know anything!
Arrived as student 9/2003; Renewed student visa 9/2006; Applied for HSMP approval 1/2008; HSMP approved 3/2008; Tier 1 General FLR received 4/2008; FLR(M) Unmarried partner approved (in-person) 27/8/2009; ILR granted at in-person PEO appointment 1/8/2011; Applied for citizenship at Edinburgh NCS 31/10/2011; Citizenship approval received 4/2/2012
FINALLY A CITIZEN! 29/2/2012


Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2015, 10:08:48 PM »
Hi,  I thought I would revive this, as I saw in the other thread (over on the Taxes board) that she was in the end able to relinquish, but not without hassle.
How long was the process from start to finish?  I’m hoping I can have this done and dusted by the end of the year!  I checked, and they don’t mind if I use Edinburgh, though it would mean travel time and expense as well as somewhere to stay.  And that assumes I would only need one trip there.
Is there anything else I should know about?  I don’t want any unpleasant surprises!  I saw over at Isaac Brock that someone printed out a statement to the effect of “I’m taking this foreign citizenship voluntarily and with the full intent of relinquishing US citizenship, etc.,” had it witnessed by the officer at the citizenship ceremony, and it was accepted by the consulate there in Canada.  Worth a try, I guess.
My UK citizenship approval should come through in the next week or two, then it’s on to the next step of relinquishing. (Or, UK passport first?  Given the waiting time, I’m wondering if I could have both in process at the same time.)
I really can’t see how they can make me renounce rather than relinquish, but I’m just so afraid they’re going to be sticky.


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Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2015, 01:41:44 PM »
The posted link ( http://maplesandbox.ca/2012/renunciation-and-relinquishment-what-are-the-differences-is-there-a-difference/ [nofollow] ) is useful but there is no practical effect between relinquishment and renunciation except this: the USG is not obliged to acknowledge your loss of citizenship except by formal act before a consular officer. That may be the only way to obtain a CLN and (as Boris Johnson found out) you may be denied boarding on an aircraft to the USA without one.

BUT the real distinction in this matter is the date of loss of nationality. Post 2008 loss -- especially for "covered expatriates" -- can subject you to draconian tax consequences, and that can include non-US family-member joint assets, PFIC (typically ISA, some pre-current tax treaty pension assets, investment assets, trust funds, and so on). One should avoid OVDP if at all possible.

Those who lost US citizenship pre 1967 (Afroyim case) or pre 1980 (Terrazas) will not have had it restored UNLESS they "availed themselves of an attribute of American citizenship" (as to taxes, see Rev. Rul. 75-357, PLR 8138071) -- and seeking a CLN can be just that. (The reason is that no state can attribute its nationality to a person without his consent or that of his parent/guardian except at birth, adoption or (sometimes) marriage.)

It is true that there's an international-law rule that every state, and only that state, determines who are its nationals. But the UK Supreme Court seems to be deciding for itself who are nationals of foreign states, most recently in the expatriation of extremist Islamists. The US Treasury has sought to include mutual collection provisions in new tax treaties but they do not apply to citizens of the other country (who were such citizens when the tax was incurred). State is seeking to include provisions for extradition of those accused of tax crimes (without a condition of "double criminality"). Very occasionally as in the Barrett case "ne exeat republica" writs have been used to keep tax debtors from leaving the US after a visit: http://www.irs.gov/irm/part5/irm_05-021-003.html [nofollow] The TECS network can enable the IRS to monitor the travel of noncompliant taxpayers http://www.irs.gov/irm/part5/irm_05-001-018r-cont01.html [nofollow]

There are between 3.5 and 7 million expatriate Americans (nobody really knows how many; most probably do not have US passports). Only a few hundred thousand US tax returns are filed from abroad. You do the math.

The above points to a conundrum for those claiming to have lost US citizenship but who have no CLN (and choose not seek one) and who want to visit the USA. Best advice: travel via Canada. Unless the TECS system contains contrary data the traveler may be admitted and if the point needs to be litigated Canada is close. Hey, Plattsburgh Airport advertises itself as "Montreal's USA airport".


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Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2015, 09:34:00 AM »
Quote
How long was the process from start to finish?  I’m hoping I can have this done and dusted by the end of the year!  I checked, and they don’t mind if I use Edinburgh, though it would mean travel time and expense as well as somewhere to stay.  And that assumes I would only need one trip there.
Is there anything else I should know about?  I don’t want any unpleasant surprises!  I saw over at Isaac Brock that someone printed out a statement to the effect of “I’m taking this foreign citizenship voluntarily and with the full intent of relinquishing US citizenship, etc.,” had it witnessed by the officer at the citizenship ceremony, and it was accepted by the consulate there in Canada.  Worth a try, I guess.
My UK citizenship approval should come through in the next week or two, then it’s on to the next step of relinquishing. (Or, UK passport first?  Given the waiting time, I’m wondering if I could have both in process at the same time.)
I really can’t see how they can make me renounce rather than relinquish, but I’m just so afraid they’re going to be sticky.

They purposely draw the process out over a couple of months, but you should be able to get it done by the end of the year no problem if your UK citizenship will come through soon. They like to see you with a UK passport at your appointment and they might make you send them a copy when you submit the initial info, so it's probably worth starting that process right away. It only takes a few weeks anyway. I would also say it's probably worth contacting the consulate before you even get naturalised to start the process, as that is further evidence for them that you are taking your UK citizenship with the intention of giving up US citizenship. Probably also wouldn't hurt to have something witnessed by the naturalisation person, though there is no guarantee that they'll agree to do it I suppose.
Arrived as student 9/2003; Renewed student visa 9/2006; Applied for HSMP approval 1/2008; HSMP approved 3/2008; Tier 1 General FLR received 4/2008; FLR(M) Unmarried partner approved (in-person) 27/8/2009; ILR granted at in-person PEO appointment 1/8/2011; Applied for citizenship at Edinburgh NCS 31/10/2011; Citizenship approval received 4/2/2012
FINALLY A CITIZEN! 29/2/2012


Re: cost to renounce U.S. citizenship soon to be US$ 2350
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2015, 11:59:26 AM »
Many thanks for this, DrSL99.  I’ve been in touch with the embassy, and it seems that you can’t, according to US law, do anything “in advance” to start the process rolling or to show intent to relinquish.  Seems a bit funny: they can’t hear what you’re thinking, yet you can’t show your intention beforehand, and then you have to somehow prove it was your intention (as they made your friend produce letters from people saying she’d told them, etc.).  Well, I do have that email inquiry as well as a few others. (And I'm also telling people!)

So I guess now I just wait... Other people who applied for citizenship the same time as me already have their approval, so it should be soon.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 01:38:14 PM by lucy w »


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