Hello
Guest

Sponsored Links


Topic: Protests in US  (Read 4320 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

  • *
  • Posts: 3358

  • Liked: 9
  • Joined: Mar 2011
  • Location: IN to Blackburn to IN to KY
Re: Protests in US
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2014, 01:39:32 PM »
I'm not even sure where white privilege came into play with my thought that protesting can be done with dignity. Rosa Parks - dignity, Woolworths - dignity. Thuggishly tearing up your town to prove a kid who stole and antagonized a cop was a decent, upstanding citizen - no dignity. Not because the white man rules the world, not because you are poor, not because of anything else. Simple, plain thought that protesting can be done with dignity.

I've never once thought protesting is wrong.

This is where I bow out, since white privilege is the only response I can get, and because the thought of white privilege is the sole reason no one is allowed to conduct themselves with dignity, and I am labelled an elitist person with no empathy.
“It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry.” Joe Moore

“We are all a little weird and life's a little weird, and when we find someone whose weirdness is compatible with ours, we join up with them and fall in mutual weirdness and call it love.”
― Dr. Seuss


  • *
  • Posts: 2898

  • Liked: 163
  • Joined: Feb 2007
  • Location: Biggleswade
Re: Protests in US
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2014, 07:31:07 PM »
I'm not even sure where white privilege came into play with my thought that protesting can be done with dignity. Rosa Parks - dignity, Woolworths - dignity.

Those protests were 50 years ago.  I realize you think everything is fine now, but it would seem there are a lot of black people who think they're still getting the short end of the stick.

This is where I bow out, since white privilege is the only response I can get, and because the thought of white privilege is the sole reason no one is allowed to conduct themselves with dignity, and I am labelled an elitist person with no empathy.

It's not that they're not "allowed to conduct themselves with dignity" it's that you aren't the best judge of how someone else should or shouldn't protest, because you're observing the situation from a position that isn't remotely affected by the thing they're protesting about.

I'm not sure that the discussion isn't a bit derailed when it moves to individual circumstance.

It's not whether an individual poor white person is privileged, it's whether that person is privileged when compared to an equally poor black person.  If you use individual cases, you could say there's no racism in America at all because Barack Obama is President or because Colin Powell was Secretary of State.


  • *
  • Posts: 13025

  • Liked: 4
  • Joined: Oct 2005
  • Location: Washington DC
Re: Protests in US
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2014, 09:44:34 PM »
I don't disagree with your statements regarding protesting and dignity. The statements that you made earlier were the ones that I feel lack awareness of the nuances of racial tensions, history, and white privilege. You're right - we  should try to work together but I would argue what we need to work together on is making sure people understand what happened, how terrible it was, and how it continues to impact individuals today.

How can we ever get rid of the black/white divide when it is forever being brought up in rap music, Black History month, the Miss Black America pageant, the fact that a kid steals, is aggressive to a cop, gets shot and it becomes a 'because he was black' issue, etc. Forever holding yourself apart is not the way to let us all become the human race, instead being black or white.

White History month would be considered racist. Black History month is about pride. How long would a Miss White America pageant last? It would be shut down before the first woman sauntered out on the runway. There is nothing wrong with celebrating your ancestry, but not everyone is allowed to. It needs to be across the board.

In this supposed age of enlightenment, all of this should be far behind us. Slavery was a horrible, horrible part of human history. But it can't be used as crutch when things go wrong. I have heard people say that bad things happen to them because their ancestors were slaves. We are all responsible for our actions. Don't rob a store and find ways to play the 'poor me' role because of what happened hundreds of years ago. Stand proud and make something of yourself. The best way to overcome the past is to make a better future. The same can be said for white people. If you come from generations of poverty, strive for more.


  • *
  • Posts: 205

  • On a stroppy little island of mixed up people...
    • City of Villages Blog
  • Liked: 1
  • Joined: Apr 2012
  • Location: West London
Re: Protests in US
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2014, 11:04:14 PM »
I really have no other way to say this, than to just say it. I mean nothing racist or evil by it at all. Please keep that in mind as you read.

How can we ever get rid of the black/white divide when it is forever being brought up in rap music, Black History month, the Miss Black America pageant, the fact that a kid steals, is aggressive to a cop, gets shot and it becomes a 'because he was black' issue, etc. Forever holding yourself apart is not the way to let us all become the human race, instead being black or white.

White History month would be considered racist. Black History month is about pride. How long would a Miss White America pageant last? It would be shut down before the first woman sauntered out on the runway. There is nothing wrong with celebrating your ancestry, but not everyone is allowed to. It needs to be across the board.

Not long after the Michael Brown shooting, there was a white boy in very similar circumstances, and very little was said about it. He was considered a naughty kid who paid the consequences for his actions.

Regardless of what neighborhood you come from, what your financial situation, it is up to each individual person to be responsible for his or her actions. My heart goes out to each and every person caught up in this mess. Whatever thought process, moment or whatever it was that led each one to try to fight perceived hatred with violence, it breaks my heart.

In this supposed age of enlightenment, all of this should be far behind us. Slavery was a horrible, horrible part of human history. But it can't be used as crutch when things go wrong. I have heard people say that bad things happen to them because their ancestors were slaves. We are all responsible for our actions. Don't rob a store and find ways to play the 'poor me' role because of what happened hundreds of years ago. Stand proud and make something of yourself. The best way to overcome the past is to make a better future. The same can be said for white people. If you come from generations of poverty, strive for more.

As I said above, I don't mean anything racist or black/white by any of this. I am simply saying I feel it is time to stop holding ourselves in the black/white categories the world can't seem to get past, and move forward.

You may not mean to be racist, but what you said is racist, and ignorant. Black people, and I say this as a black person, are not using slavery as a crutch. The US, through many different systems and institutions, has systemically put black people at a disadvantage well beyond slavery's end. The issue is that people think that the abolition of slavery put black and white people on equal ground. But it didn't. Integration didn't even happen in the South until my mother was almost a teenager. To put that in context, I am 30 years old and my mother is a baby boomer. We weren't considered full citizens until the 60s. Indigenous people didn't become citizens until the 70s! Racist housing policies, white flight, redlining, voter disenfranchisement and the destruction of wealthy black neighbourhoods (google Rosewood and Black Wall Street) were institutionalised racist policies that happened throughout the 20th century and continue to this day. So yes, black people and minorities in general have every reason to be angry at the continual discrimination that we face every day.

Black History/Latino History/Indigenous History/Women's History Month all exist because for the rest of the year all we learn about is factually inaccurate histories of the victors, also known as wealthy white men. Black shows and magazines and the rest exist because without it, people like me, with dark skin and kinky hair, would hardly be represented in the media. I knew so many black girls growing up who absolutely hated themselves and wanted to be white because everyone is told that whiteness is the default for beautiful. I'm not sure why you have such an issue with black media but haven't commented on the disproportionate whiteness of media. And hip-hop will always speak out on social inequalities because it arose in areas that were created in order to disenfranchise black/brown bodies, so of course it is a genre of protest and anger. And in all honesty, I'm not sure how we are meant to move forward when white women clutch their purses when I walk by (I'm a 5'3 woman), when white girls call me ghetto and laugh as I walk by (grew up in the suburbs, but even if I hadn't they were still being super racist), when as a student I was told constantly that I was only allowed in university due to affirmative action (I was 3rd in my high school class). How can black people move forward when society criminalises, sexualises and dehumanises black bodies, even those of black children?

And more to the point, why should minorities assimilate our cultures into the dominant hierarchy of white American values in order to be considered forward-thinking? To be considered better citizens? Can you honestly not see how privileged and, indeed, racist it is to demand that marginalised people be more like you (with the inherent assumption that your way is best and normal)? How can anyone see the murder of so many black children, murders upheld by the legal system, and think that the problem lies with black people and not with the country built on black bodies and by black bodies?

It is difficult to speak adequately, or justly, of London. It is not a pleasant place; it is not agreeable, or easy, or exempt from reproach. It is only magnificent... the biggest aggregation of human life, the most complete compendium in the world.
-Henry James


  • *
  • Posts: 3358

  • Liked: 9
  • Joined: Mar 2011
  • Location: IN to Blackburn to IN to KY
Re: Protests in US
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2014, 12:04:18 AM »
Again, my words are misconstrued, picked apart and only what you want to read is being twisted and thought of differently than what I am saying.

I never said all black people use slavery as a crutch. I never thought that either. I in no way live in some fluffy fantasy world where I feel segregation, racism, white privilege, or any of the bad parts of human existence are over with.

I also never said minorities should assimilate.

I am not saying any more, to give anyone more fuel to see me in a bad light, just because my words are misconstrued and a phrase or two taken out of context.
“It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry.” Joe Moore

“We are all a little weird and life's a little weird, and when we find someone whose weirdness is compatible with ours, we join up with them and fall in mutual weirdness and call it love.”
― Dr. Seuss


  • *
  • Posts: 4174

  • Liked: 533
  • Joined: Jul 2005
Re: Protests in US
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2014, 09:19:29 AM »
It's not whether an individual poor white person is privileged, it's whether that person is privileged when compared to an equally poor black person.  If you use individual cases, you could say there's no racism in America at all because Barack Obama is President or because Colin Powell was Secretary of State.

I can agree with this.

I personally do not like to perform case-by-case analysis. There are so many little things.....it is much easier for me to look at stuff like inequality in public education funding.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


  • *
  • Posts: 205

  • On a stroppy little island of mixed up people...
    • City of Villages Blog
  • Liked: 1
  • Joined: Apr 2012
  • Location: West London
Re: Protests in US
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2014, 10:23:22 AM »
Again, my words are misconstrued, picked apart and only what you want to read is being twisted and thought of differently than what I am saying.

I never said all black people use slavery as a crutch. I never thought that either. I in no way live in some fluffy fantasy world where I feel segregation, racism, white privilege, or any of the bad parts of human existence are over with.

I also never said minorities should assimilate.

I am not saying any more, to give anyone more fuel to see me in a bad light, just because my words are misconstrued and a phrase or two taken out of context.

Look, I'm not twisting your words, I replied to all of your original points and put forth a few questions of my own. And I quote you on slavery: 'Slavery was a horrible, horrible part of human history. But it can't be used as crutch when things go wrong.'

That was the full context of that sentence. I'm not trying to assassinate your character, but I do honestly hope that you do some reading on the policies that have shaped modern racial inequalities. I think most people would be horrified if they knew how unjust our institutions are and how that extends from national to local levels. But getting upset and shutting down when a minority explains something to you calmly and reasonably is a complete waste of time, and tells me that you aren't actually that interested in learning about black Americans.
It is difficult to speak adequately, or justly, of London. It is not a pleasant place; it is not agreeable, or easy, or exempt from reproach. It is only magnificent... the biggest aggregation of human life, the most complete compendium in the world.
-Henry James


  • *
  • Posts: 1260

  • Liked: 63
  • Joined: Jun 2011
  • Location: Congleton, Cheshire
Re: Protests in US
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2014, 10:38:45 AM »
Some of us have more experience and knowledge than you may realize, as we are part of a mixed-race family.

No matter what, I cannot condone riots, looting and similar behaviour as a means of protest. IMHO, it isn't justified and only adds fuel to the flames of prejudice.
Married December 1992 (my 'old flame' whom I first met in the mid-70s)
1st move to UK - 1993 (Letter of Consent granted at British Embassy in Washington DC)
ILR - 1994 (1 year later - no fee way back then!)
Back to US in 2000
Returned to UK July 2011 (Spousal Visa/KOL endorsement)
ILR - September 2011
Application for naturalization submitted July 2014
Approval received 15-10-14; ceremony scheduled for 10 November!
Passport arrived 25 November 2014. Finally done!


Sponsored Links