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Topic: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?  (Read 3689 times)

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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2015, 10:40:52 PM »

I figured I was pretty much stuck with the California residency thing, and I'm very aware it is one of the worst states when it comes to tax issues.  I've lived there a very long time and have all my family connections there. Back in the dark ages (last century!) I was a CPA and prepared taxes in California for several years. We would joke that if California could figure out a way to collect it, they would levy a tax on people flying over the state.  Gallows humor... every profession has their version.  ;)

Applying for a UK spousal visa, having a spouse in the UK and setting up home there are good indicators that you have permanently left CA and do not intend to return.


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2015, 07:15:21 AM »
One of the most difficult states to 'divorce' is the Commonwealth of Virginia, but it can be done. After much research into the Rulings of the Tax Commissioner on change of domicile, I wrote and asked for a ruling request.

I got an acknowledgement, and then nearly 5 months later, a snail mail with a long form and list of things I had to provide to "prove" I no longer lived in VA or had ties that indicated intent to return. The letter was sent to the wrong address (their mistake), but I did get it, a bit late. As they had given us 30 days from the date of the letter to respond, I immediately contacted them and was granted an additional 30 days.

I assembled the 2 inch thick pile of paper and sent it off. The acknowledgement stated that it would take 120 days for a ruling. After 150 days I wrote asking for an update, and was told "check back in 30 days". I waited another 45 days and checked again, and was told "it's in process". That was in mid-November, and here it is, 2 months later, and still no official decision. The mind boggles.....

If CA is anything like VA, using a CA address for anything can imply that you intend to return (or really never left). We changed the address on our remaining bank account, cancelled our driving licenses (sort of automatic as VA requires that any change of address is reported, and cancels if you report a move to a foreign country), informed the local Board of Elections that we had moved etc. We sold cars before the move, own no property in VA, belong to no church, social club etc., and kept ALL the paperwork from various agencies. We filed part-year resident state income tax returns for the year we moved, and non-resident the following year.

Paying UK tax on worldwide income is the least of my worries and I fully intend to be here until my ashes are scattered wherever by whomever.  ;)
Married December 1992 (my 'old flame' whom I first met in the mid-70s)
1st move to UK - 1993 (Letter of Consent granted at British Embassy in Washington DC)
ILR - 1994 (1 year later - no fee way back then!)
Back to US in 2000
Returned to UK July 2011 (Spousal Visa/KOL endorsement)
ILR - September 2011
Application for naturalization submitted July 2014
Approval received 15-10-14; ceremony scheduled for 10 November!
Passport arrived 25 November 2014. Finally done!


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2015, 10:05:33 PM »
My attitude may change, actually it will likely change, in the future, but right now I'm just too entrenched emotionally in California.  That may not make sense financially and/or tax wise, but I'm taking the moving of bank accounts and addresses slowly and feeling my way towards separating myself from CA.  My adult children are there and I want to be able to visit easily which means keeping things fairly familiar financially - at least for now.  :)

I can picture that attitude changing quickly the first time I have to pay CA state tax though....  ;)

I really appreciate reading your experience with Virginia, vadio, very interesting.  I hope they finally get their act together and grant you independence.  It seems ridiculous that it should be so difficult to move yourself away from the state when you no longer live there.
Here 2 years as of Oct. 1, 2016.


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2015, 10:05:41 PM »
I finally got around to calling about mutual funds, and it turns out I don't have any - yay!  I do however have one or two ETF's.... how about that?  I learn something every day.......   ;D


I also have a telephone appointment to learn a bit more about my own finances. It was a wee bit embarrassing to have to call E*Trade and ask the nice man on the other end of the phone if I had any mutual funds or not.   :P
Here 2 years as of Oct. 1, 2016.


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2015, 02:05:07 AM »
I finally got around to calling about mutual funds, and it turns out I don't have any - yay!  I do however have one or two ETF's.... how about that?  I learn something every day.......   ;D


I also have a telephone appointment to learn a bit more about my own finances. It was a wee bit embarrassing to have to call E*Trade and ask the nice man on the other end of the phone if I had any mutual funds or not.   :P

Those ETFs will be HMRC non-reporting funds if they are not on the HMRC reporting funds list. Vanguard has a lot of ETFs that are HMRC reporting and is a good company to deal with. If I was you, before I moved to the UK I would sell you E*Trade funds and move the money to Vanguard and buy some HMRC reporting Vanguard ETFs. I'd also open a ROTH IRA with Vanguard.

Those emotional and family ties to CA could well go against and CA might see you as still domiciled and require you to pay state taxes.


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2015, 09:59:46 PM »
Those ETFs will be HMRC non-reporting funds if they are not on the HMRC reporting funds list. Vanguard has a lot of ETFs that are HMRC reporting and is a good company to deal with. If I was you, before I moved to the UK I would sell you E*Trade funds and move the money to Vanguard and buy some HMRC reporting Vanguard ETFs. I'd also open a ROTH IRA with Vanguard.

Those emotional and family ties to CA could well go against and CA might see you as still domiciled and require you to pay state taxes.

Drat!  I didn't realize all ETF's weren't treated equally.  :(

Okay, I'll check this out further.  I've always liked Vanguard, and in fact the vast majority of my retirement accounts are with them, so at least I'm familiar with the company. 

Thank you again for the head's up advice.  I really do appreciate it.  :)
Here 2 years as of Oct. 1, 2016.


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2015, 11:41:47 PM »
For interested parties here is a list of all the Vanguard ETFs with their CUSIP numbers that are on the latest HMRC reporting funds list.

There are plenty of other US funds on there too including some from DFA and Janus, but Vanguard is tops with me.

Vanguard Dividend Appreciation Index Fund - ETF Shares         921908844
Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund - ETF Shares         921909768
Vanguard Extended Duration Treasury Index Fund - ETF Shares      921910709
Vanguard Mega Cap 300 Growth Index Fund - ETF Shares         921910816
Vanguard Mega Cap 300 Value Index Fund - ETF Shares         921910840
Vanguard Mega Cap 300 Index Fund - ETF Shares         921910873
Vanguard S&P 500 Growth Index Fund  - ETF Shares         921932505
Vanguard S&P 500 Value Index Fund - ETF Shares         921932703
Vanguard S&P Small-Cap 600 Value Index Fund  - ETF Shares      921932778
Vanguard S&P Small-Cap 600 Growth Index Fund  - ETF Shares      921932794
Vanguard S&P Small-Cap 600 Index Fund  - ETF Shares         921932828
Vanguard S&P Mid-Cap 400 Value Index Fund - ETF Shares         921932844
Vanguard S&P Mid-Cap 400 Growth Index Fund  - ETF Shares      921932869
Vanguard S&P Mid-Cap 400 Index Fund  - ETF Shares         921932885
Vanguard Long-Term Bond Index Fund -  ETF Shares         921937793
Vanguard Intermediate-Term Bond Index Fund - ETF Shares         921937819
Vanguard Short-Term Bond Index Fund - ETF Shares         921937827
Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund - ETF Shares         921937835
Vanguard Tax-Managed International Fund Vanguard FTSE Developed Markets ETF         921943858
Vanguard High Dividend Yield Index Fund - ETF Shares         921946406
Vanguard Emerging Markets Government Bond ETF Index Fund      921946885
Vanguard Total International Bond ETF Index Fund         92203J407
Vanguard Global ex-U.S. Real Estate Index Fund - ETF Shares      922042676
Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small-Cap Index Fund - ETF Shares   922042718
Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund - ETF Shares         922042742
Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Index Fund - ETF Shares         922042775
Vanguard Emerging Markets Stock Index Fund - ETF Shares         922042858
Vanguard FTSE Pacific Fund - ETF Shares         922042866
Vanguard FTSE Europe Fund - ETF Shares         922042874
Vanguard Consumer Discretionary Index Fund - ETF Shares         92204A108
Vanguard Consumer Staples Index Fund  - ETF Shares         92204A207
Vanguard Energy Index Fund - ETF Shares         92204A306
Vanguard Financials Index Fund - ETF Shares         92204A405
Vanguard Health Care Index Fund - ETF Shares         92204A504
Vanguard Industrials Index Fund - ETF Shares         92204A603
Vanguard Information Technology Index Fund - ETF Shares         92204A702
Vanguard Materials Index Fund - ETF Shares         92204A801
Vanguard Utilities Index Fund - ETF Shares         92204A876
Vanguard Telecommunication Services Index Fund - ETF Shares      92204A884
Vanguard Short-Term Government Bond Index Fund - ETF Shares      92206C102
Vanguard Short-Term Corporate Bond Index Fund - ETF Shares      92206C409
Vanguard Russell 3000 Index Fund - ETF Shares         92206C599
Vanguard Russell 2000 Growth Index Fund - ETF Shares         92206C623
Vanguard Russell 2000 Value Index Fund -ETF Shares         92206C649
Vanguard Russell 2000 Index Fund - ETF Shares         92206C664
Vanguard Russell 1000 Growth Index Fund - ETF Shares         92206C680
Vanguard Intermediate-Term Government Bond Index Fund - ETF Shares 92206C706
Vanguard Russell 1000 Value Index Fund - ETF Shares         92206C714
Vanguard Russell 1000 Index Fund - ETF Shares         92206C730
Vanguard Mortgage-Backed Securities Index Fund - ETF Shares      92206C771
Vanguard Long-Term Corporate Bond Index Fund  - ETF Shares      92206C813
Vanguard Long-Term Government Bond Index Fund  - ETF Shares      92206C847
Vanguard Intermediate-Term Corporate Bond Index Fund - ETF Shares   92206C870
Vanguard 500 Index Fund - ETF Shares         922908363
Vanguard Mid-Cap Value Index Fund - ETF Shares         922908512
Vanguard Mid-Cap Growth Index Fund - ETF Shares         922908538
Vanguard REIT Index Fund - ETF Shares         922908553
Vanguard Small-Cap Growth Index Fund - ETF Shares         922908595
Vanguard Small-Cap Value Index Fund - ETF Shares         922908611
Vanguard Mid-Cap Index Fund Vanguard Mid-Cap ETF         922908629
Vanguard Large-Cap Index Fund -  ETF Shares         922908637
Vanguard Extended Market Index Fund -  ETF Shares         922908652
Vanguard Growth Index Fund - ETF Shares         922908736
Vanguard Value Index Fund - ETF Shares         922908744
Vanguard Small-Cap Index Fund - ETF Shares         922908751
Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund - ETF Shares         922908769
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 12:05:03 AM by nun »


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2015, 12:00:32 AM »
Oh yeah.....and now you want me to decide between Baby Ruths.....and O' Henry's....Or for the UK inclined (as per my wife's tastes)....between Minstral's and Maltesers......
Fred


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2015, 12:14:05 AM »
Oh yeah.....and now you want me to decide between Baby Ruths.....and O' Henry's....Or for the UK inclined (as per my wife's tastes)....between Minstral's and Maltesers......

Unfortunately there isn't a UK FTSE index, the closest is a Europe Index, but keep it simple. You could do a lot worse than just owning Total Stock Market and Total International. They don't (or at least very rarely) distribute capital gains so you don't have to worry how they are taxed in the UK.


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2015, 10:14:48 AM »
nun - just curious - do we know who is paying for Vanguard to do all of this reporting to HMRC?

It must be costing them a good amount to remain HMRC compliant; and with AIFMD in force Vanguard are now out of step with the rest of the US mutual fund industry.

Unless we know who is paying, it is possible Vanguard could shelve HMRC reporting any time they choose.


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2015, 12:39:05 PM »
nun - just curious - do we know who is paying for Vanguard to do all of this reporting to HMRC?

It must be costing them a good amount to remain HMRC compliant; and with AIFMD in force Vanguard are now out of step with the rest of the US mutual fund industry.

Unless we know who is paying, it is possible Vanguard could shelve HMRC reporting any time they choose.

Well I suppose the Vanguard share holders are paying. There is only one Vanguard document that comes up when I do a web search, but it shows that someone at Vanguard is thinking about their ETFs and HMRC reporting status.

https://advisors.vanguard.com/iwe/pdf/TIDQAUK.pdf

It's on the advisors side of the site, so maybe they have enough interest from professionals working with US expats and interested NRAs to make it worthwhile. I also wonder just how much effort this is for a firm the size of Vanguard.

They are definitely more US expat friendly than most other US firms and I wonder if it comes from their structure and origins being owned by the funds, and hence the individual investors) rather than outside shareholders. Only the ETFs appear on the list and I wonder if they are easier to make compliant than the mutual funds and Vanguard wants to sell them more widely and HMRC compliance is useful for that.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 01:04:52 PM by nun »


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2015, 02:44:11 PM »
Well Maseco is working alongside DFA. Vanguard would not be doing this without an FCA regulated partner - but I don't know who it is...


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2015, 04:25:18 PM »
Well Maseco is working alongside DFA. Vanguard would not be doing this without an FCA regulated partner - but I don't know who it is...

Interesting, DFA requires that the individual go through an "advisor", the individual can't buy them directly, so Maseco and DFA is sensible.

You can buy Vanguard ETFs that trade on US markets through Hargreaves and Lansdown so that seems to be the FCA partner....and of course Vanguard has a FCA regulated division, although not sure that's even relevant.

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/search-for-investments?stock_search_input=vanguard&category_list=CEHGINOPW

So if a US citizen wants to deal with a UK platform H&L seems to be the way to go and buy Vanguard ETFs making sure they have a valid CUSIP number.


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2015, 04:59:42 PM »
But the point I am making is that is costing Vanguard a huge amount of dough to remain AIFMD & OIG compliant - unless they have a wealthy backer they could decide that the UK is not their core market and pull the US business out of the UK with no notice at all (as other US based investment houses have been doing), potentially leaving thousands of UK based investors with higher tax bills than expected.


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Re: Will this tax filing plan pass muster?
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2015, 06:09:08 PM »
I'm almost certain I just heard a few of my synapses exploding.....   ???

I'm also having flash backs to the elementary school word problems in math - you know, the ones about trains leaving stations and meeting somewhere in the middle?  Heck, what did I know about trains?!?  I lived in Hawaii for goodness sake!!!

Ahhh, sorry for the rant, but WOW this stuff is confusing!  I think it has to do with all the acronyms and form #'s etc., but I feel like I'm trying to wade through a different language with a faulty translator...   :P

Okay, enough of that - I do actually have a question.  :-[

Am I correct that the issue with HMRC listed funds has to do with complications over withholding and reporting requirements and not an actual increase in tax owed for non listed ones?  Not that I'm minimizing the value of keeping things simple, I'll do a lot for simplicities sake, but I'm trying to understand why this matter is so urgent.

Now, I'm going to go get my blankie and hide in the wardrobe for awhile......   ;)

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