Dual Citizenship for UK Born Babies

There is no longer passport-free travel from Canada to the USA: US citizens need a passport card or an enhanced driver license http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/passports/information/do-i-need.html
Not mentioned is an alternative for enrolled members of a Native Canadian band or Native American tribe: a Jay-Treaty compatible Indian status card http://canada.usembassy.gov/visas/information-for-canadians/first-nations-and-native-americans.html

There are (very) minor exceptions to the US passport requirement for Amcit children, mostly with respect to children of diplomats. The Deviant Khobragade case may be relevant (her children are Amcits and I know she was being investigated by the Indian Foreign Ministry over the fact she had obtained American passports for them.

As for American citizen children born abroad whose birth has never been registered with a US consular service (or with the State Department in those cases where the child somehow entered the USA without a US passport):

-- There is a presumption of alienage for every person born abroad that is rebutted by evidence of nationality -- usually a passport or a Certification of Report of Birth (DS-1350). A Social Security number is applied for at the time when such a birth is registered.

--  It goes without saying that many parents abroad fail to register the births of their children. When I worked in this area, and perhaps still, all births sought to be registered after the age of 5 were referred to Washington for approval, to avoid fraud. I am aware that, today, older mothers, especially where IVF is suspected or acknowledged, are asked for DNA evidence.

So, in this era of IGAs and FATCA -- which can only get worse -- many individuals will probably slip through the cracks. I know of several such cases, even involving individuals born in the USA but whose foreign passports may be ambiguous in statement of "Place of birth".

In that sense, a 1987 GAO report on the Implications of Deleting the Place of Birth in US Passports contains a curiosity: Switzerland is said to have objected. But Swiss passports themselves don't contain place of birth, rather "place of origin" (comparable to a sort of "domicile" or "vecindad civil" in the sense it's inherited from one's parents). http://www.gao.gov/assets/210/209508.pdf

Further to the foregoing: I am reminded of an off-Internet Listserv discussion among members of the tax-crime defence Bar and the tax-compliance (call them the "OVDP-promoting" Bar) on how Big Data -- and TECS, the Treasury Enforcement Communications System, that records airline reservations and cross-border movements http://www.irs.gov/irm/part5/irm_05-001-018r-cont01.html -- can or might coordinate information about dual nationals and lead to writs ne exeat republica http://www.irs.gov/irm/part5/irm_05-021-003.html (lots more on this stuff with an Internet search; Forbes Magazine has covered (and indeed instigated) much of the Taxation to Avoid Expatriation and the enforcement story. LinkedIn groups are one site where this stuff is discussed publicly although many of its members can be said to be touting for business by carrying IRS scare stories.

As IRS lawyers have told me (in relation to cases that shock the conscience like those where taxes are more than 100% of income -- typically the old dot-com stock options cases and the Carter-years no Foreign Earned Income Exclusion cases) the IRS isn't looking for such noncompliant people and deals with them "when they are brought to the IRS's attention". As of course they must.

The story as of 2003 (quoted in the Britishexpats forum in 2004) is here, but the law has changed somewhat: http://bit.ly/1cl3eJ3 (the thread concerns diplomatic immunity)

Flyertalk has been discussing "emergency travel by a US citizen" with a foreign passport: http://bit.ly/1FK14fx Note, however, that the "gate controllers" are the carriers -- air, rail, bus -- who will not board anyone they know or have reason to think is an Amcit without proper documentation.

That said, there are millions of persons around the world with US ancestry, even a US parent, who do not themselves have a claim to US nationality. Or for whom a successful claim would require resolution of doubtful facts: parental residence, place of birth, biological parentage (DNA), and so on. Decisions of the State Department and UCIS can be appealed on the facts and the law, and precedent decisions can be found online: http://www.uscis.gov/laws/precedent-decisions

Some jobsworth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobsworth could perhaps cause trouble. But there's no promotion for him or her in doing that.

Your post is incorrect. In the very link you posted, it clearly states that US citizens under the age of 16 can enter Canada with a birth certificate, Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certificate of Citizenship.

Your post is incorrect. In the very link you posted, it clearly states that US citizens under the age of 16 can enter Canada with a birth certificate, Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certificate of Citizenship.

Post relates, or is intended to relate, to the US requirement. Yes, Canada will let you in. But then the USA will not let you back.

Your comment doesn't amount to a "flame". But why are people so quick to criticise when that only chases away people of good will who actually know something.

Usually I am criticised for saying irrelevancies: but then I try to make posts interesting with actual anecdotes. You may disagree.

On my last trip to Canada (by train) the Canadian border guard mainly wanted to know what language I speak (I have a European passport). I told him French was fine. He didn't seem to notice or care that there was no I-94 (or whatever), indeed no stamps in my passport other than a Russian one from a cruise port layover. I thought they were supposed to report non- US citizens back to USCIS.

Anyway entry and departure records of aliens can be found online:
http://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/spotlights/2014-04-30-000000/arrivaldeparture-history-now-available-i-94-webpage (click on "Get I-94 Information")

Thanks, Geeta.  I figured that might be the case but thought I'd ask anyhow.  One of the many things to consider!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that if you renounce your US citizenship prior to any children being born then you won't pass US citizenship on to them. So that would be one way around it Larissa, but obviously you'd have to go through the cost and hassle of renouncing.

Post relates, or is intended to relate, to the US requirement. Yes, Canada will let you in. But then the USA will not let you back.

My correction also related to US citizens arriving in the US from Canada; apologies for not stating so. The text clearly states:

U.S. citizen children under age 16 arriving by land from Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, or the Caribbean may present an original or certified copy of his or her birth certificate, Consular Report of Birth Abroad, or Certificate of Citizenship.


Thus the US WILL let you back in.

My correction also related to US citizens arriving in the US from Canada; apologies for not stating so. The text clearly states:

U.S. citizen children under age 16 arriving by land from Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, or the Caribbean may present an original or certified copy of his or her birth certificate, Consular Report of Birth Abroad, or Certificate of Citizenship.

Thus the US WILL let you back in.

That's good as far as it goes, and now that you mention it and I've read what you wrote closely I seem to remember it.

But it's not much use as I think they will hold the child until the police and Social Services have been called. And I wouldn't advise anybody to carry around a Consular Report of Birth Abroad since they're a nuisance to replace. And anyone tendering a Puerto Rican birth certificate issued before 2010 will find that it's worthless: http://prfaa.pr.gov/birthcertificatesnd2.asp?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

(If you go to the Derby Line VT Web site, or do a Web search https://duckduckgo.com/?q=derby+line+vt+video  you will see a complaint that children on the Canadian side (the border runs down the main street, with the Haskell Free Library and Opera House on the frontier line) tend to be afraid to go over to the US side to retrieve a ball that has bounced over.)

There is also another useless exception: an Amcit child under 12 included in an alien parent's passport. What country includes children anymore? And if I recall correctly certain exceptions are made for children of foreign diplomats even though no US citizen can have diplomatic immunity (i.e. the spouse and child of an accredited foreign diplomat does not get a sales tax exemption card).

But then British (and other EU) diplomats in Washington never are given such cards because EU considers VAT an indirect tax (supposedly not levied on the buyer) whereas the US considers it a direct tax. (Diplomats accredited to the UN do get them.)

One of my many daughters was held up for hours, with another 16-y.o. friend, years ago at their port of entry (Salt Lake City or some such place, change of plane to San Francisco) until one of the parents could be contacted back in London. That was before the days when everybody had a mobile telephone. And the daughter was traveling on an Irish passport, but that was before the days of Big Data, TECS and all the other tools available to USCIS (as it now is).

An afterthought: I seem to recall that the children aboard the Roberts Point WA school bus (there is no high school on that peninsula) don't carry any ID. http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/anxiety-runs-high-in-border-town-fearing-its-lone-school-may-be-lost/ But I could, as so often, be wrong.

Why would they call police and social services if a child provides what is required, which is simply a birth certificate?

Why would they call police and social services if a child provides what is required, which is simply a birth certificate?

My guess (and that was 1999) is that it was a matter of state law. Anyway we couldn't be reached but the mother of the other girl could. We should have given her a letter of consent. My bad.

I smiled at the mention of Derby Line VT - I lived there back in the late 60s, and remember what we called "little customs" in town quite well. "Big customs" was on the Interstate. We 'locals' liked to observe cars at "little customs" being taken apart when over-zealous border officials decided that anyone who looked vaguely like a hippie surely must have drugs concealed somewhere...... 

I smiled at the mention of Derby Line VT - I lived there back in the late 60s, and remember what we called "little customs" in town quite well. "Big customs" was on the Interstate. We 'locals' liked to observe cars at "little customs" being taken apart when over-zealous border officials decided that anyone who looked vaguely like a hippie surely must have drugs concealed somewhere...... 

Funny. Around those same years -- when I was a border-crosser myself (and, hey, I now get a small QPP annuity and unlike my US SS it isn't subject to any WEP. (But then I don't get Old Age Security which, I think, has a similar purpose) -- one of our guys was coming back from the monthly run Lacolle-NYC (a run paralleled at the time by a NY firm that sent parcels to Cuba) -- and the Customs guy saw a cake of Pears soap in his van. He asked what it was, and our guy gave a smart answer. Bad decision. They took the van apart, even checked the tires.

Last year I took the train from NYC to Montreal and we stopped at the border for Canadian Customs. Within sight of that (like the "little Customs" of Derby Line) border crossing for locals. As I wrote in an earlier posting I would have thought that the Canadians would have asked about my status (no stamps in my European passport). But they just wanted to know if I spoke French. Or English I guess.

Which reminds me of years ago I flew into Toronto to give a speech. I looked around, for no good reason, for a sign that there was a French-speaking inspector. When I asked why not, they got all excited and said "Wait here". they went and got their on-duty French speaker, a stunning French-Vietnamese woman who spoke Parisian French.

And nobody got embarrassed or snide over the fact that what I presented was ... a US diplomatic passport.

There is no longer passport-free travel from Canada to the USA: US citizens need a passport card or an enhanced driver license http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/passports/information/do-i-need.html
Not mentioned is an alternative for enrolled members of a Native Canadian band or Native American tribe: a Jay-Treaty compatible Indian status card http://canada.usembassy.gov/visas/information-for-canadians/first-nations-and-native-americans.html

There are (very) minor exceptions to the US passport requirement for Amcit children, mostly with respect to children of diplomats. The Deviant Khobragade case may be relevant (her children are Amcits and I know she was being investigated by the Indian Foreign Ministry over the fact she had obtained American passports for them.

As for American citizen children born abroad whose birth has never been registered with a US consular service (or with the State Department in those cases where the child somehow entered the USA without a US passport):

-- There is a presumption of alienage for every person born abroad that is rebutted by evidence of nationality -- usually a passport or a Certification of Report of Birth (DS-1350). A Social Security number is applied for at the time when such a birth is registered.

--  It goes without saying that many parents abroad fail to register the births of their children. When I worked in this area, and perhaps still, all births sought to be registered after the age of 5 were referred to Washington for approval, to avoid fraud. I am aware that, today, older mothers, especially where IVF is suspected or acknowledged, are asked for DNA evidence.

So, in this era of IGAs and FATCA -- which can only get worse -- many individuals will probably slip through the cracks. I know of several such cases, even involving individuals born in the USA but whose foreign passports may be ambiguous in statement of "Place of birth".

In that sense, a 1987 GAO report on the Implications of Deleting the Place of Birth in US Passports contains a curiosity: Switzerland is said to have objected. But Swiss passports themselves don't contain place of birth, rather "place of origin" (comparable to a sort of "domicile" or "vecindad civil" in the sense it's inherited from one's parents). http://www.gao.gov/assets/210/209508.pdf

U.S. citizen children under age 16 arriving by land from Canada or Mexico may present an original or certified copy of his or her birth certificate, Consular Report of Birth Abroad, or Certificate of Citizenship.

Right.  Thank you, but I know that.  From above, "I know the hypothetical child would still technically have US citizenship."

I figure if hypothetical child ever becomes a reality it can either claim a US passport when old enough, never claim and never enter the US, or register itself and then quickly give up its citizenship if it wanted to.

What I was hoping for was an answer to my question, "Has anyone else done this and have there been any problems doing so?"

This works, and is perfectly legal, if and only if their is doubt as to the facts relating to the infant's acquisition (or not) of US nationality. As I wrote in an earlier posting, older IVF mothers especially are frequently asked for DNA proof of biological parentage. Where the parents are unmarried and it is the father who is the Amcit, paternity must be established during the child's minority to attribute US nationality. There is a similar age limit in adoption cases.

I am aware that there are many thousands of children born abroad to Amcit parent(s) who probably became, themselves, Ambits at birth but were never so registered. The question in your hypothetical case is this: who has standing to bring an action to determine nationality when the appropriate procedure is, normally, for the individual (or his/her parent) to apply for a US passport?

In marginal cases and previously unrecorded paternity one could, in practice, have a sort of "option". That's true of any status case, including becoming enrolled as a member of a US Indian tribe (this was not uncommon in the past for Mexico- or Canada-born indigenous peoples). But you're inviting a retroactive tax bill if you can't justify prior ignorance and you were indeed an Amcit from birth.  See, for example: Rios v. Civiletti, 571 F. Supp. 218 (D.P.R. 1983) (father, U.S. Army deserter, recorded birth in Mexico using fictitious name) http://www.uniset.ca/other/cs6/571FSupp218.html

That's good as far as it goes, and now that you mention it and I've read what you wrote closely I seem to remember it.

But it's not much use as I think they will hold the child until the police and Social Services have been called. And I wouldn't advise anybody to carry around a Consular Report of Birth Abroad since they're a nuisance to replace. And anyone tendering a Puerto Rican birth certificate issued before 2010 will find that it's worthless: http://prfaa.pr.gov/birthcertificatesnd2.asp?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

(If you go to the Derby Line VT Web site, or do a Web search https://duckduckgo.com/?q=derby+line+vt+video  you will see a complaint that children on the Canadian side (the border runs down the main street, with the Haskell Free Library and Opera House on the frontier line) tend to be afraid to go over to the US side to retrieve a ball that has bounced over.)

There is also another useless exception: an Amcit child under 12 included in an alien parent's passport. What country includes children anymore? And if I recall correctly certain exceptions are made for children of foreign diplomats even though no US citizen can have diplomatic immunity (i.e. the spouse and child of an accredited foreign diplomat does not get a sales tax exemption card).

But then British (and other EU) diplomats in Washington never are given such cards because EU considers VAT an indirect tax (supposedly not levied on the buyer) whereas the US considers it a direct tax. (Diplomats accredited to the UN do get them.)

One of my many daughters was held up for hours, with another 16-y.o. friend, years ago at their port of entry (Salt Lake City or some such place, change of plane to San Francisco) until one of the parents could be contacted back in London. That was before the days when everybody had a mobile telephone. And the daughter was traveling on an Irish passport, but that was before the days of Big Data, TECS and all the other tools available to USCIS (as it now is).

An afterthought: I seem to recall that the children aboard the Roberts Point WA school bus (there is no high school on that peninsula) don't carry any ID. http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/anxiety-runs-high-in-border-town-fearing-its-lone-school-may-be-lost/ But I could, as so often, be wrong.

I believe Shandy uses a CRBA to enter the US from Canada with her children.  And she's never mentioned having an issue with police and social services.  To imply one would have a problem with a completely legal route to enter the US is absurd.