The Serial comma

I was taught to use it, but I don't now. But this example has started me thinking:

Among those interviewed were his two ex-wives, Kris Kristofferson and Robert Duvall.

Among those interviewed were his two ex-wives, Kris Kristofferson, and Robert Duvall.

Isn't it more commonly known as the Oxford comma?

That's all I've ever seen it called anyway.

I think it's important in those kind of situations as it really differentiates things.

My teacher in middle school has totally ingrained the Oxford comma into me.  She would liberally apply the red ink of disapproval all over my paper if I missed that last comma.  *shudder*

I was taught to use it, but I don't now. But this example has started me thinking:

Among those interviewed were his two ex-wives, Kris Kristofferson and Robert Duvall.

Among those interviewed were his two ex-wives, Kris Kristofferson, and Robert Duvall.

And that's why I nearly always use it.  In my opinion, it tends to improve clarity.

My teacher in middle school has totally ingrained the Oxford comma into me. 

I can't actually remember being aware that there was any debate.  I think I'd always been taught to use it.  It wasn't until college, when my freshman seminar professor brought it up, that I learned there was actually a choice.  But since I'd always used it, and he was quite partial to it (though didn't insist on it), I figured I'd carry on.  I think it tends to suit my writing style, anyway.

Another good reason to use commas is the difference between:

"It's time to eat, grandpa." and "It's time to eat grandpa."

This brings up a question that's been burning in my grammar maven mind: are there different rules for commas here (outside the Oxford comma)? Because I see them used far more liberally here than I did in the States, and it's SO often that I have to imagine the rules are different rather than a national grammar crisis.

For example: "Head chef, John Smith served up a lovely roast." or "I went out, to get a pizza."

This brings up a question that's been burning in my grammar maven mind: are there different rules for commas here (outside the Oxford comma)? Because I see them used far more liberally here than I did in the States, and it's SO often that I have to imagine the rules are different rather than a national grammar crisis.

For example: "Head chef, John Smith served up a lovely roast." or "I went out, to get a pizza."

That's interesting, and something I haven't noticed here before.  As a woman of *cough* mature years, my education in commas may be a wee bit outdated, but it was all in the US.  In your first example I would actually add a comma after John Smith, since that is an interruption to the flow of the sentence which simply clarifies the term head chef.  I would consider the second sentence to be incorrect since, to me, the comma doesn't belong at all.  I long ago gave up the fight and decided to use the so called Oxford comma, despite the controversy over it.  However, I tend to have a heavy hand with commas - as a few people may have noticed. 

Ironically, I met my husband through a group on Goodreads and, when I became a beta reader for him, commas were a very large part of our editing discussions.  LOL - He was such a charmer and so romantic! 

In your first example I would actually add a comma after John Smith, since that is an interruption to the flow of the sentence which simply clarifies the term head chef.  I would consider the second sentence to be incorrect since, to me, the comma doesn't belong at all.

I was educated in the UK and I agree with Becca - both sentences look not quite right to me. I would say that the first should have an extra comma after John Smith and the second one is grammatically incorrect - it should not have a comma at all.


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I was educated in the UK and I agree with Becca - both sentences look not quite right to me. I would say that the first should have an extra comma after John Smith and the second one is grammatically incorrect - it should not have a comma at all.

I was educated in Canada and I third this.

In your first example I would actually add a comma after John Smith, since that is an interruption to the flow of the sentence which simply clarifies the term head chef.  I would consider the second sentence to be incorrect since, to me, the comma doesn't belong at all.

+1

That's how I would do it as well.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who reads those as incorrect! But I don't know that it makes me feel any better to know that improper comma use is such an epidemic here.

But I don't know that it makes me feel any better to know that improper comma use is such an epidemic here.

Well, it is a bit subjective, though, isn't it? I mean with commas especially. I might want to indicate sort of a pause and plop one in.

I use the Economist Style Guide, which isn't really hard-core.  I think I remember it saying to just not go too crazy with commas. 

But I have grown foggy about punctuation lately....like when using quotation marks.....do you put the end mark inside the quotation mark or out:

James screamed, "Look out!"
Everyone was yelling things like, "Give him the boot," and "Watch out for that tall fellow"!

I can't remember....

But I have grown foggy about punctuation lately....like when using quotation marks.....do you put the end mark inside the quotation mark or out:

James screamed, "Look out!"
Everyone was yelling things like, "Give him the boot," and "Watch out for that tall fellow"!

I can't remember....

Weeeeelllll, at the risk of sounding stuffy - or being wrong, god forbid! - in the first example I would put a period after the quotation marks and leave the exclamation point inside.  The exclamation point is part of the quotation indicating the manner in which James screamed, but the sentence that includes the quotation still needs a period.  I'll admit that this always looks funny to me, but that's what I would do fwiw.  The second example would be treated the same, with the exclamation point inside the quotation marks after fellow, and a period after the quotes.  An exclamation mark would probably follow boot inside the quotes and the comma outside of them.

I'll step off the podium and take my teacher's hat off now.... and if I'm wrong, please be gentle. 

Actually, sonofasailor was right in the first sentence - no additional punctuation is needed. With the second sentence, the exclamation point should go inside the quotations.

There is room for some subjectiveness with commas but this isn't 'Nam, there are rules! 

this isn't 'Nam, there are rules! 

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