Question about dual citizenship

Hoi guys!  I currently live in Virginia, USA but my boyfriend and I are contemplating moving us and the kids oversees.  I'm a little unsure how to proceed.  I placed a call to the Registrar at the British Embassy in DC but she's out until next week.  Thought someone might have some information.  So...

I was born in Greenwich in 1972.  Both of my parents are Americans and we just happened to be living in England (due to my dad's job) at the time of my birth.  I have been told that I this would give me dual citizenship.

Anyone have any idea?   

Did your parents register you as a British citizen when you were born? I'm not sure that being born in the UK to American parents automatically confers British citizenship.  It might, I'm just not sure.  Have you checked our Immigration links?

I have no idea.  All I do know is that I have a birth certificate.  I was told that since I was born there before 1983, that I would be a citizen.   But information is pretty scarce. 

On the web site of the IND, in note "BN9", the following is stated:

"1. Before 1 January 1983, almost every child born in the United Kingdom (see Note 1) was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies. The only exceptions were children who were born to certain people holding diplomatic or consular status. Under the British Nationality Act 1981, which came into force on 1 January 1983, citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies was replaced by three new citizenships: British citizenship, British Dependent Territories citizenship (see Note 2) and British Overseas citizenship."

It sounds as if you may have a good claim for a British passport, if your parents weren't in theUK on diplomatic or consular status. Check with your solicitor, or with Garry on this forum, who I believe is a registered immigration advisor.

Thanks so much!  My dad worked for General Electric at the time, so there are no worries about diplomatic or consular status.  I will definitely check with Garry.   

Ash, please note that you will need British passports for your children as well, and if you want to come here with the partner, partner will have to have a visa (either marriage visa or unmarried partners visa).

Ash, please note that you will need British passports for your children as well, and if you want to come here with the partner, partner will have to have a visa (either marriage visa or unmarried partners visa).

Once I find out if I indeed have citizenship, I can start the process.  Thanks again for all of the information!   

On the web site of the IND, in note "BN9", the following is stated:

"1. Before 1 January 1983, almost every child born in the United Kingdom (see Note 1) was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies. The only exceptions were children who were born to certain people holding diplomatic or consular status. Under the British Nationality Act 1981, which came into force on 1 January 1983, citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies was replaced by three new citizenships: British citizenship, British Dependent Territories citizenship (see Note 2) and British Overseas citizenship."

It sounds as if you may have a good claim for a British passport, if your parents weren't in theUK on diplomatic or consular status. Check with your solicitor, or with Garry on this forum, who I believe is a registered immigration advisor.

Yes, but further down the page it also says:

"17. If neither parent is a British citizen or legally settled here, the child will not be a British citizen at birth. So, if a married couple have only been allowed into this country temporarily, for example, as visitors or students, or to work, and they are still limited as to how long they can stay, or if they are staying on without permission, their child will not be a British citizen at birth. Nor will their child be a British citizen if they have entered the country illegally (for example, without being examined by an immigration officer or otherwise in breach of the immigration laws) and they have not been given permission to stay here indefinitely. If the parents want to stay in the United Kingdom, we recommend that they apply to the Immigration and Nationality Directorate of the Home Office for themselves and their child to be given leave to remain."

And:

"18. If a child does not become a British citizen at birth, he or she may be entitled to registration as a British citizen later. This will happen if either parent becomes a British citizen or legally settles here before the child is 18; or if the child stays here until age 10. If the child is not entitled to registration, the Home Secretary may decide to allow registration. There are more details in leaflet BN11 which you can get from the address in paragraph 19."

Which is why I am unsure if, since she was not registered as a British citizen at birth, she is still entitled to it (if she was).

The link to that page of the IND website is:

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/home/applying/british_nationality/advice_about_nationality/bn9_-_citizenship.html

I hope it works out for you!

British nationality law can be maddeningly confusing. The notes on the Home Office IND web site are not as clear as they could be, I fear.

However, from what I understand, British nationality law underwent a big reform in 1982, which came into effect on 1 January 1983.

Prior to the reform, most everyone who was born in the United Kingdom (England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales) was a British citizen, unless the parents were in the UK with diplomatic or consular status. The citizenship status of people who were born here (and whose parents were not Dip or Con status) was "CUKC" or citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies.

After 1 January 1983, in order to gain British nationality by birth in the UK, your parents had to have "settled status". That means they had to be either British citizens, have Right of Abode, or have Indefinite Leave to Remain. So you would not be British if you were born in the UK after 1983, but your parents were in the UK only on a work permit.

The reason for this change is that in the 60s and 70s, there were so many people in the UK for various reasons, and they were having children here, and those children would then, as British citizens, be entitled to sponsor others for immigration to the UK. It was at a time when immigration had been running at high levels and the government wanted to restrict citizenship for that reason. The requirement that the child's parents have settled status significantly cut down on the number of people who acquired nationality at birth.

However, as I understand it, the 1983 changes were not retroactive. So the further requirements and options regarding registration to which you refer are not really relevant to pre-1983 cases, so far as I know. But this should be checked with a solicitor!

That is how I have understood the distinction of pre-1983 and post-1983 law, but she should check with an immigration solicitor or advisor here before doing anything.

Well I'm very interested to find out how this turns out-please, Ash, keep us posted!

That is how I have understood the distinction of pre-1983 and post-1983 law, but she should check with an immigration solicitor or advisor here before doing anything.

We had some PM's about it.  Essentially, based on the info she's given she doesn't have even a ghost of a claim to citizenship.    Even if she had a claim to citizenship through one of her parents - which she doesn't - since she was born in 1972, her opportunity for registering would have expired in 1990.  Were she to apply, it's my view that the application would never leave the mail room; In fact, I doubt they would accept the application fee.

As to seeing an advisor, yes, it's usually the smart thing to do for anything important, BUT in the case of citizenship, we should remember that an unsuccessful application is not necessarily pejorative. 

 Essentially, based on the info she's given she doesn't have even a ghost of a claim to citizenship. Even if she had a claim to citizenship through one of her parents - which she doesn't - since she was born in 1972, her opportunity for registering would have expired in 1990.

This was what I had thought-that because there were no actual ties to the UK and because she was born there so long ago that the chance would have expired (if there was one to begin with).  My hubby was one of the children who could have registered before 18 but didn't-so now he's having to undergo the registration process (born to a British mother before 1981, you see).

Thanks for the update, Garry-I'm sorry to hear my suspicions were correct.

BUT, she should apply.  Unlike all the other stuff we discuss here, a citizenship application does not hurt if it fails.

Paradoxically, it's cheaper to forego the advisor and just to apply since the criteria are less judgemental i.e., cut and dried - than the fiance, spousal, etc etc cases.

The application fee can't be a waste of money because it's about 1/3 the cost of consulting a high street firm just to ask the questions.

Saf, was your husband born in the UK?

Nope.  He grew up there and was eligible for citizenship on 1 Jan 83-if he'd been registered.  But nobody ever informed he and his Mum of that.  So we have to do the registration process now.