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Topic: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!  (Read 3589 times)

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Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« on: July 20, 2015, 05:47:29 PM »
Firstly - thank you so much for any help you can give me.

My partner is a US citizen and I am a UK citizen and we have been together for around a year.  We would like to apply for the fiance visa at the begining of Oct once I have my 6 months pay slips for my 2nd job (took another to meet the fianncial requirements.)

Have been looking into app to make sure we're prepared but have a question re the criminal offences section on the application for (question 6.9)

My partner was charged with spray painting when he was an idiotic 18 year old (now 18 years ago) and received 50 hours community service.  Does this need to be declared?  Also he was unfairly arrested for "disorderly conduct and resisting arrest" 8 years ago, however the charges were dropped and he was just given a nominal fine.  His record will show an arrest but not charge.  Will this need to be declared?  The rules seem very wooly!  I also know he has had a couple of speeding tickets throughout his entire life (as have I) but probably more than 10 years ago.  I know it doesn't sound good but really his only "crime" was spray painting 18 years ago.  Can anyone give me advice on the implications of these issues?

I am really freaking out as the whole process is so difficult and stressful anyway and now this! Do you think it will cause us any issue with our application?  We can't bear to do long distance anymore and we love each other.  I just want to be able to be with him.  Thanks so much


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2015, 07:01:35 PM »
Declare EVERYTHING and provide any documentation possible from the courts.  Shouldn't cause any issues but if you don't declare them and they show in a background check, it could cause problems.

I do wonder if a resisting arrest charge warrants using an attorney...


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2015, 07:57:16 PM »
Hi there,

Thank you very much for your reply.  Just to clarify: although he was arrested for public disorder and resisting arrested it was a misunderstanding and the charges were DROPPED.  He just had to pay a fine as a matter of course.

His step father is an attorney and dealt with it all at the time and clarified that his criminal record shows an arrest but no charge.  We should be able to get the details from him and get him to write a letter explaining hopefully. 

I was confused as I have seen some advice saying not to declare anything that is "spent" so would speeding fines from literally 10 or 15 years ago be relevant?  I do agree that declaring everything is better than looking like you're trying to cover things up though of course!

Would you recommend a letter from him explaining the misdemeanours and that it is all in the past etc?? I am already fretting as we will only have been together around 15 months when we apply and am scared our relationship will be considered too "young" and then now we have to deal with this. Plus I have 2 jobs to make up the financial requirement and can't help thinking our case is getting more and more complicated! I know there's nothing we can do about his past but I'm really very frustrated!

Has anyone had any experience of applying successfully with any criminal issues in their history??  Thank you for your response.  It's much appreciated


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2015, 09:00:23 PM »
Me again.  I just spoke to him and he explained that once the charges were dropped for the disorderly conduct/resisting arrest thing, it was reduced and he actually received his fine for an "ordinance violation"

I just looked it up and this is the definition:

Ordinance violations are charges issued by municipal governments for violations of local municipal rules. They are not considered criminal matters. They are not recorded as criminal charges and no criminal record results from an ordinance violation conviction.

Do you think we still need to disclose it as he was arrested but never charged so therefore there is no "conviction".  It sounds a lot less serious than I thought though so that's a relief. I guess the best course is to disclose it all and explain


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2015, 09:05:00 AM »
ALWAYS disclose the past.

That's what was confusing me.  If it was dropped completely, there would have been no fine. 


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2015, 09:17:32 AM »
Yes, we always recommend to disclose everything, even if you don't think it's serious enough to disclose - even things like simple parking tickets. At least it shows you are being honest about everything - and if it's not cause for refusal, then it won't make a difference anyway.

You don't want to be in a situation that you don't disclose something because you don't think it matters and then it turns out it was more serious than you thought and they think you're lying about it.

We had someone here a few years ago who thought their conviction was considered spent after 5 years but it turned out it was actually 10 years (and it had only been about 6 years when they applied). Their visa was refused because it wasn't spent yet, but all that meant was that they had to wait the full 10 years before applying again. However, if they hadn't declared it (because they thought they didn't need to) and then UKVI found out they hadn't, they could have been facing a ban for deception.

Essentially though, even if it was a criminal conviction but all he got was a fine, then as long as it didn't happen in the last 12 months they can't refuse the visa because of it anyway (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/when-can-i-refuse-on-the-grounds-of-criminality-rfl10/when-can-i-refuse-on-the-grounds-of-criminality).


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2015, 11:45:05 AM »
Thanks so much!  We will declare everything.  Do you think we need to dig out court notes etc (if possible).  I'm going to get him to apply to get a list of any speeding tickets etc from the DMV and list them too.  I'm just frustrated because  if we include a couple of speeding tickets from 10 years ago it look like there's quite a list which I'm worried makes him look like he is of bad character or a repeat offender etc. I don't think he's had anything car related for about 10 years.  If someone did have a speeding ticket recently how long until they're considered "spent"? Does it classify under a fine so 12 months? Could you be refused if he had an active speeding fine in the last 12 months?? It's all so scary! 

Our application already feels quite complicated as I have 2 jobs to meet the financial requirements, have been married and now divorced plus we will only have been together about 15 months when we apply and have heard that "young" relationships are given more scrutiny. I am just feeling overwhelmed and I miss him and just feel like it's slipping furthur out of reach. Anyway, I'm being daft.  Neither are hugely serious and everything would be "spent" by now anyway so as long as we declare it and are honest and up front it should be fine.

Do you think it's worth my partner writing a separate letter explaining the issues and apologising or should we just write them on the form??


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2015, 11:52:16 AM »
Speeding tickets aren't criminal convictions, so they don't get considered 'spent' in the same way. In terms of on your driving licence, they are spent after 3 years and removed after 4 years, but they will have no effect on a visa application anyway - even if they happened in the last 12 months they aren't grounds for refusal because they are not criminal.

He can write a cover letter for the application with an explanation of them and stating what paperwork he is including. No need to apologise for them - UKVI deal only in facts and ticking boxes, they don't care about personal declarations or apologies.

Honestly, it doesn't sound like the rest of your application is complicated though - many people use 2 jobs to meet the requirements and/or have been divorced and/or have only been together a short time.

The application is just about meeting the requirements, ticking boxes and sending the documents - that's it.


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2015, 11:59:40 AM »
Totally agree with ksand.  You are definitely overthinking things.

The absolute worst case scenario is that his past could prevent him from qualifying for citizenship until he has been in the UK for 10 years versus 5 years.  Even that is unlikely.  Don't worry about your relationship length.  15 months isn't a short period of time and UKVI allows arranged marriages.  The only requirement is that you have met and that the marriage is genuine.


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2015, 12:22:15 PM »
Thank you again. I'm feeling better about things. I AM overthinking things and am a natural sorter and worrier so just want to get things straight.

Our relationship is genuine and it's good to know that 15 months isn't too short. We've visited back and forth 4 times (I was there 10 weeks early this year) and this will be a fiancé visa so will have been several months longer when we're actually wed visa permitting of course.
I know it's a worst case scenario but what happens if you do have to delay to 10 years as opposed to 5? Do you just keep having to extend your Furthur leave to remain every 2.5 years??
I know it's effectively box ticking and just including all the evidence and proving all the criteria which we absolutely can do. I'm just trying to get my head round it all and this was something that I only realised yesterday so it threw me into a panic!

I'll get him to write a letter explaining. He is coming to visit in August for 6 weeks all being well (another issue that throws me into a panic-the traditional will they let him in if he's visiting his partner scenario that crops up so often!) so we will have time together to go through everything and get it all written up before we apply in Oct (I will have met the financial requirements for 6 months for my 2nd job by then.)

Thanks for clarification re speeding fines. It wasn't a speeding fine but I realised that when I was there we got pulled by police on NYE (just a random thing as it was new years eve and I think they were hoping to find drunk drivers or something!) and he didn't have his registration document on him. In his state this warranted his car. Being impounded and he had to go to the courthouse to show his relavent documents but there was no charge as everything was in order and he didn't pay a fine etc but did have to pay to get his car released. It was all a jobs worth police officer thing as he could have accompanied us home and seen the reg doc but he impounded the car and made him take his documents to the courthouse the next working day. It felt like they were just trying to make money out of him. I'll check if this is on his DMV record. It's all just silly frustrating stuff as he really is an upstanding citizen but it feels like there have just been a few things and it makes me worry. That is the only thing that might be classed as recent but I'm pretty sure it won't be listed on anything. Everything else is at least 8 years ago.

Thanks again. We are genuine and meet all the other requirements these are silly little things. I just can't bear the idea of it causing problems when it's all out of my hands and we just want to be allowed to legally live on the same continent and be together! Anyway, thanks again. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond :)


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2015, 01:35:30 PM »
I know it's a worst case scenario but what happens if you do have to delay to 10 years as opposed to 5? Do you just keep having to extend your Furthur leave to remain every 2.5 years??

No, he would still gain ILR after 5 years and would not need any more visas, it's just that he might not be able to apply for citizenship as soon as he gets ILR, he might have to wait until he's been in the UK for 10 years.

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I'll get him to write a letter explaining. He is coming to visit in August for 6 weeks all being well (another issue that throws me into a panic-the traditional will they let him in if he's visiting his partner scenario that crops up so often!) so we will have time together to go through everything and get it all written up before we apply in Oct (I will have met the financial requirements for 6 months for my 2nd job by then.)

The letter he would write would just be a cover letter introducing his package of visa documents, it's not something he should spend a lot of time on, just something like:

'In X year, Y happened and I am including Z document to show this'

His letter doesn't need to be written until a couple of weeks before you apply (as it ought to be dated around the time of actually submitting the application) and include the following (no longer than about 4 paragraphs (1 sheet of A4)):

- type of visa applied for
- date he wishes the visa to be valid
- an explanation of anything unusual about his documents (i.e. large transactions on a bank statement)
- an explanation of any criminal convictions and/or any refused visas or entries or illegal working in the UK in the past
- a list of documents in the visa application package

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I just can't bear the idea of it causing problems when it's all out of my hands and we just want to be allowed to legally live on the same continent and be together! Anyway, thanks again. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond :)

Seriously nothing to worry about - I have a UK drink driving conviction and I've successfully been granted 3 US visas since it happened (1 student visa, 2 visitor visas)... and the US is much stricter on convictions than the UK, especially drink and drug convictions (under US law it will never be spent, while in Canada it's a felony which means I'm banned from entering Canada completely for several years).


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2015, 05:00:07 AM »
Hi There,

Just wanted to share some experience and hopefully set your mind at ease.

Briefly: I'm American - just wed my British wife in June, in England on a marriage visitor visa. I'm back in the states about to apply for my spousal settlement visa. We have an attorney in the UK who has helped us navigate all the complications.

I have a DUI on my record here in the states from 2010. I plead "no contest" to the charges, paid fines, served community service hours, did all the required classes/counseling/probation etc required by my state (and got sober along the way!) - and this was NOT AN ISSUE when applying for my marriage visit visa. It did not prevent me from having a successful application. The advice you've already been given is spot on. Declare everything, provide as much information as possible, and be honest.

There are two issues at hand when dealing with criminality - time and character. If it has been 8 years since your partners legal trouble, and it has already been processed etc, it is not an "unspent" conviction. As long as you are not currently experiencing probation, trial, or something that hasn't gone to court yet for which you are awaiting adjudication, you have no unspent convictions. What is called into question after that is what they refer to as "suitability" - ie: are you a perpetual criminal? do you have a long record? is it likely that you will offend again in the UK if you are granted a visa? That doesn't sound like it's the case with your partner, and it wasn't the case with me. I made sure, through the advice of my solicitor, to be as thorough as possible when declaring my past arrest, and provide information to support my "character" so the Home Office understood that it's not my intention to come to the UK and drive drunk, and that I did everything the court asked me to here in the states.

Along with all the other supporting documents sent in with my application I included: originals of the court disposition, certificate of completion of my DUI class, certificate of completion of community service hours, a document from the clerk of the court declaring my probation to have expired, a few letters from people who know me to be a sober individual, and an explanation of the exact events in my "statement" - much in the way previous commenters have said (on this date this happened, this was the charge, this is what I did about it, here's the documentation) and it was fine. Definitely include original court documents wherever possible, and have his attorney explain the situation in a letter. This is the thing I worried MOST about during the process of applying the first time - and my worries haven't completely disappeared, BUT I do know now that declaring it all and having documentation to prove one's compliance means you are playing by the rules and that's what's important. I was granted the visa to come to the UK and marry my wife, and I'll be granted the visa to come settle and live with her, too. You either meet the criteria or you don't. Period. As long as you've met it doesn't matter how long your relationship is. As long as you meet the financial requirement it doesn't matter that you took a second job to do so. As long as he's of good character and wasn't arrested yesterday, your partner's past events won't bar him from coming to the UK. It will be okay. You will get through this! :)

Being apart is the hardest thing. It makes us stronger in the long run, even when we are floundering or not doing too well or focused on the anxiety during a particular stint apart. Or when we are in a quagmire of paperwork and applications and plane tickets and future plans. If your love can survive and thrive under those conditions, don't let a visa application crush you. You're stronger than it is! (This is what I have to tell myself a lot...)

Good luck. Start thinking about that wedding date in the future, the earlier you check in with your registry office the greater likelihood of preferred dates etc!
Married, waiting on the 5 Year Route to Citizenship!
LTR Granted August 2015
Moved to Britain September 2015
FLR Granted May 2018
Applying for ILR January 2020
...citizenship sometime after!


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2015, 07:14:24 AM »
I made sure, through the advice of my solicitor, to be as thorough as possible when declaring my past arrest, and provide information to support my "character" so the Home Office understood that it's not my intention to come to the UK and drive drunk, and that I did everything the court asked me to here in the states.

You actually didn't even need to do that. Providing you did not serve any time in prison and only have that one conviction, the only way that they could refuse the visa was if your DUI had happened in the previous 12 months before applying.

As it happened in 2010 and was a single conviction, they would not have been allowed to refuse the visa because of it anyway, regardless of your character.

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Along with all the other supporting documents sent in with my application I included: originals of the court disposition, certificate of completion of my DUI class, certificate of completion of community service hours, a document from the clerk of the court declaring my probation to have expired, a few letters from people who know me to be a sober individual, and an explanation of the exact events in my "statement" - much in the way previous commenters have said (on this date this happened, this was the charge, this is what I did about it, here's the documentation) and it was fine.

A lot of this was not required - all you actually needed to send were the court documents and a copy of your police record showing your criminal history (or lack of).

I don't think they are even allowed to look at statements from other people - I believe all they can consider are the official court records and what shows up on your police record.


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2015, 02:54:16 AM »
Honestly, I'm sure we did go overboard with the documentation - but I'd rather overshare and know there's nothing I've overlooked than possibly have to appeal a decision or go through another application process because there's something missing.

My attorney solely practices immigration law and has a few horror stories about the length of time her clients have gone through when dealing with questions about people's background - additional information being requested to make a decision, etc. To make sure there was no possibility of anyone accusing me of "deception" or delaying my application because of a lack of supporting documents, I declared it all, and have not only a clear conscience, but peace of mind. My understanding is that "suitability" is an issue that ECOs have discretion over. To me, there are way too many "technicalities" that can and do prevent people from getting approval and I did not want to have any ambiguity. So, maybe I sent in too much, or more than was required - what's truly appropriate to send in is vague, so I am all about covering all bases. Letters of support regarding the "genuine and subsisting" nature of my relationship are definitely taken into consideration, so we included letters from friends that are part of my life as sober people, too. Who knows whether they used them to make a decision. To me, it was beside the point. I just wanted to make sure everything was extra covered :)

I'm glad to hear that UKBA can't refuse people based on past convictions alone from another source, Ksand24. I hope they also don't discriminate based on "character" - but I played it super safe just in case. To the original poster, Rosiemct, I hope I didn't make you freak out more by sharing my experience! I'm sure you will be okay.
Married, waiting on the 5 Year Route to Citizenship!
LTR Granted August 2015
Moved to Britain September 2015
FLR Granted May 2018
Applying for ILR January 2020
...citizenship sometime after!


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Re: Old criminal conviction and UK fiance visa. Help please!!!
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2015, 09:16:27 AM »
Honestly, I'm sure we did go overboard with the documentation - but I'd rather overshare and know there's nothing I've overlooked than possibly have to appeal a decision or go through another application process because there's something missing.

The thing is, the more unnecessary paperwork you provide, the harder you make the job of the employees at UKVI and the longer it takes to process your visa, because they have to dig through all the extra stuff to get to the documents they actually need to see to make a decision.

If you send just the required documents, the ECO can take a look at them, tick them off and grant the visa without having to also read through all the stuff that won't even make a difference to the decision.

On this forum, I have seen hundreds, if not thousands of people applying for visas over the last 8.5 years and a number of them have had criminal convictions. I don't think anyone has provided character statements, and I don't remember anyone having their character called into question.

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To make sure there was no possibility of anyone accusing me of "deception" or delaying my application because of a lack of supporting documents, I declared it all, and have not only a clear conscience, but peace of mind.

As you should do - you must declare any and all convictions and provide the court paperwork.

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My understanding is that "suitability" is an issue that ECOs have discretion over. To me, there are way too many "technicalities" that can and do prevent people from getting approval and I did not want to have any ambiguity. So, maybe I sent in too much, or more than was required - what's truly appropriate to send in is vague, so I am all about covering all bases.


Suitability and character is only something that will be considered if the information you give on your application leads them to believe you are a cause for concern, in which case they will consider refusing under either paragraph V 3.3 of Appendix V (visitor visas) or paragraph 320(19) (other visa types). Chances are your lawyer is familiar with people who do fall under this category and has dealt with character-related situations, because that's why the applicants have turned to a lawyer in the first place - but that doesn't mean that your situation also falls into that category too.

With just one conviction for drink driving, they are extremely unlikely to even consider looking at your character, because it's not likely to be considered a serious enough situation to question it.

As it says on the UKVI website:
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While a person does not necessarily need to have been convicted of a criminal offence, the key to establishing refusal in this category will be the existence of reliable evidence necessary to support the decision that the person’s behaviour calls into question their character and/or conduct and/or associations such that it makes it undesirable to grant them entry clearance.

They will check what you've written on your application with your court documents and police record, and they will also carry out security checks on you, to make sure that you are telling the truth. As you only have one conviction which was more than 12 months ago, they will decide you can't be refused under paragraph V 3.5(a) of Appendix V based on the conviction:
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V 3.5 An application will normally be refused if:
(a) within the period of 12 months before the application is decided, the applicant has been convicted of or admitted an offence for which they received a non-custodial sentence or out of court disposal that is recorded on their criminal record (except for an application for an extension of stay as a visitor)

Then they would only start looking at character and suitability if they determined that the nature of your criminal record or your associations were cause for concern, and would refuse under paragraph V 3.3 of Appendix V in the following situation:
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V 3.3 An application will be refused if the decision maker believes that exclusion of the applicant from the UK is conducive to the public good because, for example, the applicant's conduct (including convictions which do not fall within paragraph V 3.4), character, associations, or other reasons, make it undesirable to grant their application.
(paragraph V 3.4 deals with convictions resulting in prison sentences)

When it comes to making a decision, they have to have reliable information, such as court documents and reliable open-source information. I would very much doubt that a letter from a friend would be considered reliable open-source information:
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Standard of proof
If you decide to refuse an applicant under paragraph 320(19), you must be able to show that your decision was based on sufficiently reliable information.  You must consider each case on its individual merits. If you decide to refuse an applicant, you must have strong evidence to support your decision. Allegations, unsubstantiated and vague generalisations are not sufficient. However, intelligence given by UK law enforcement agencies or relevant and reliable open-source information may give sufficient grounds for your refusal.
(https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/424235/GGFR_Sec2v22.pdf)

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Letters of support regarding the "genuine and subsisting" nature of my relationship are definitely taken into consideration, so we included letters from friends that are part of my life as sober people, too. Who knows whether they used them to make a decision. To me, it was beside the point. I just wanted to make sure everything was extra covered :)

There is no requirement to provide proof of a genuine relationship for a Marriage Visitor Visa. All you need to provide is a letter of support from your UK sponsor and the following:
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Visitor (Marriage/Civil Partnership)
If you have been married or in a civil partnership before, you must provide documents to show that you are free to marry or form a civil partnership.

Evidence that arrangements have been/are being made to marry or form a civil partnership or give notice of your intention to this during your visit, such as a letter from a registry office.
(https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/423699/2015_04_20_Visitor_Supporting_Documents_Guide_-_Final__2__-_CLEAN.pdf)

For the spousal visa, you will need to provide proof of a genuine and subsisting relationship, but in that situation, UKVI are not allowed to consider character statements from anyone except your UK sponsor

So, letters from friends and family will not even be looked at and will just be put aside in favour of the letter from your UK sponsor:
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Evidence of your relationship to your sponsor and any contact between you
This could be a letter from your sponsor confirming your relationship and that they are supporting your application along with copies of:
- birth certificate or adoption certificate
- marriage certificate or civil partnership certificate
- death or divorce certificate
- photographs of your wedding, civil partnership ceremony or other time spent together
- phone records
- emails, letters or cards
* You should not submit DVDs or video cassettes*
(https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270197/sup-docs-settlement.pdf)

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I'm glad to hear that UKBA can't refuse people based on past convictions alone from another source, Ksand24. I hope they also don't discriminate based on "character" - but I played it super safe just in case.

As mentioned above, character only comes into question in much more serious circumstances, such as when you might be a threat to society or national security. I doubt a single DUI 5 years ago (which is already or is nearly spent) would even raise any red flags when it comes to character.

As someone who has a DUI herself and has also been granted 3 US visas since it happened with no issues at all , even though the US is MUCH tougher on convictions and DUIs than the UK is, I am aware a simple DUI isn't enough to cause a massive issue. I didn't use any lawyers for my applications - I looked into it and decided it wasn't necessary as I determined that there was no way they could refuse my visa based on that one DUI unless they could prove I was an alcoholic and a danger to society (which I am definitely not).

All I had to provide was my court documents and police certificate, and then they made me do a blood test (at a cost of over £200) to prove I was not an alcoholic. The blood test is only required in the first 3 years after a single conviction, so I only needed blood tests for the first 2 visas and I won't have to do another in the future unless I get another conviction (which I have no intention of doing).


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