A weird thing about driver's licenses and other IDs, vs. here

Have you noticed that UK driver's licenses are just a piece of paper, with no picture or expiration date? (At least that's the case where I live.) My license expired after the five-year renewal date on my birthday (October 25). You'll notice that here, there's no photo required with a driver's license, no expiration date, etc. So I've told Andrew that when we initially rent a car to use in the States, as unused to U.S. driving as he may be, it will have to be under his name because they'll be able to instantly pull up MVA/DMV info that shows mine expired on my birthday. So it's just a matter (I hope) of going to the MVA and paying a fine for letting my license expire. But I'm scared to death of landing at Dulles or BWI, and expecting him to immediately drive the rental car to my parents (respectively, 50 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes away), when the only U.S. driving he's done previously is in my parent's very upper-middle-class (i.e., no traffic) neighborhood.

Suzanne, I don't know how recently the changes have been made, but the licenses now consist of a photo id & a paper id.     Why they feel the need for both is a bit beyond me...

If you have a look about for the um DMV site (heck, can't remember if that's the name!   ) it should be able to give you an idea on price etc.  I think you'll just need the form, a cheque and some passport photos.

Wench,

I still find it strange that just about every state but Maryland has the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles). In Maryland, they've firmly stood by MVA (Motor Vehicle Administration). I spelled that out for Brits who might wonder if there's a difference--no, there's not. Just a state peculiarity. It's the same thing.

Yeah, states' rights to govern themselves in certain things. Car regs being one of them. (Florida doesn't have car inspections; that one really grits the teeth of those who have to have annual, some even more often, inspections to renew their tags.)

I joke: Some bright spark eons ago, when cars first emerged on the road as being 'oh gee, maybe we should regulate this thing even though it'll never replace the horse', thought up the catchy name "MVA (Motor Vehicle Administration)", never thinking to check to see what Virginia and Pennsylvania were calling theirs. After a while it became something they couldn't change. Or perhaps they felt everyone else should change. Ah, government logic and red tape.

Suzanne, I think I have some bad news for you.
Here's what the Maryland MVA site has for renewing your license:
(http://mva.state.md.us/DriverServ/APPLY/license.htm)
"To Renew Your Maryland License, Please Bring:
- Your expiring Driver's License and the $30 fee.
- You must pass a vision test or submit a vision certification form.
- You will be required to disclose your Social Security Number.
- License may be renewed without additional tests up to one year after expiration.
- Driving with an expired license is against the law."

What it *doesn't* say is that
1) after one year being expired, you'll probably have to retake the test, and
2) you can't renew a license in Maryland if you don't permanently *live* in Maryland

I faced the latter problem when I renewed in Florida. My license was about to expire and I hadn't gotten my UK one yet. So I thought I'd whip in to the DMV and pay my money, have my photo taken and be set for the new few years. Everything went smooth as silk until they asked for my address.

You see, what's *supposed* to happen is that when you move, you're to set yourself up as a resident of that new place and you're given a year to do it. Move to the UK? Fine, no probs. Just follow their rules, take their exams, pay the money and you're there. Maryland expects the same. Move away, take up to a year to get settled elsewhere. "Gone from us? Have a great life! See ya!"

You can give someone else's Maryland address and they'd probably be none the wiser. But, it's not right and if you're caught, there could be ramifications. Are you paying Maryland state tax? Have you been filing US income tax? There's a computer network out there and it will have your new details in it. No, no...not trying to get anyone paranoid. It's just a statement of fact. There's a billion-to-one (I made up that number to be dramatic) chance that your nme will be kicked out of a computer as having a Maryland address when you don't actually *live* in maryland. But if it kicks, it could kick really really hard. And it would leave a trail. Use your new license to hire a car and drive...that's one bread crumb.

Suzanne, you can do what you like about renewing your license. But, even if you have a Marlyland address to give, it looks like you will have to take the test (or whatever procedure) all over again.
Sorry.
 

On a brighter note, your husband will be fine driving. Graham switches back and forth all the time. It's a lot easier than it might sound. The hardest might be coming out of a parking lot into the street if there's no other traffic. That requires a little bit of pre-thought.

In the UK:
"The photocard and paper counterpart together make up the complete driving licence..."
is exactly what it says on the D740 paper counterpart which also gives an expiry date (the day before your 65th birthday).
It is issued by the DVLA - Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency.

For what its worth, I also think that it is daft to need both.

Maryland was the last place I lived before coming here. My tax advisors, KPMG, told me that it was important to break residence with Maryland completely, because Maryland is super-aggressive in enforcing personal income tax laws. One of the factors I was told to be on the lookout for was my Maryland driving licence - they said to return it to Maryland. It had expired, so I didn't bother.

However, in connection with their advice to me, I learned that there was a fairly recent case decided by the Maryland Tax Court in which an expat couple who had lived in the Middle East for nearly a decade, had no property or car in Maryland, and no longer held Maryland licences, were still found to have been domiciled in Maryland throughout the period because
a) they returned there at the end of their ten year stint abroad
b) they kept furniture in storage in a Maryland warehouse.

They had to pay 10 years of back income tax + interest and penalties.

Now that is aggressive tax policy.

misch, excellent points.
It isn't easy to break domicile with the US. I personally don't want to, but then again, I moved from Florida, a state that has no state income tax.

I hope this isn't too off topic....but does anyone know what the danger is of keeping your driving license even when you get a driving license abroad as far as jury selection, etc.?

I have a New York Driving license that is good until 2010 and have my address listed as my Mom's house (same address I switched my US bank account to). I am registered for absentee voting purposes at that address- surely it would be obvious that I'm living abroad?

I've often thought about this.  I do submit forms for taxes each year- including NY state tax. Not that I have to pay since I make nowhere near the $80,000!

Jenny,

That would be a question of NY law. I do know of some Texas ex-pats who kept a property in Texas and kept their licences although they were living here. Didn't seem to be a problem. Texas has no personal income tax. I have no idea what view NY takes of it.

I would suggest getting a British licence and be done with it. Your British licence will be good in the US - I use mine there all the time to rent cars.

Best to look it up, as misch advises. My own gut feeling...your NY license is going to be good for driving in the US. But as soon as you reach one year having lived here, it's not going to be good driving in this country (insurance reasons). As soon as you get a UK license, you cannot use your US license (here or in the US). You cannot have driving licenses from two different countries. Once you have one, the other becomes void.

If you're planning on living in the UK, and plan to drive here, get your UK license. That can be used, as misch says, in the US too. That's the most "legal" thing...in my opinion.

BTW, in Florida, where I came from, the jury selection is done from the electoral registrations, and not from those with driving licenses. If voting absentee, they possibly don't choose juries from this side list. I've never been called in the seven years I've been here...but I was called when I lived in Florida.

Aha!
Good advice- thanks Misch and Lisa! I have been here in the UK for nearly 3 years and never even had the opportunity to drive (no car while we were living in London!)

I have been taking driving lessons for ages now and my test is next week.  I suppose I would be able to drive in the US on my UK license, right?

Drat. I really don't want to give my US license up. I think it's a psychological thing hehe

Drat. I really don't want to give my US license up. I think it's a psychological thing hehe

I felt the same way. I don't know why I felt it was important to have the US license renewed. Just...I didn't want to have to take the test over again! But I'm not planning to have to need it, so I don't know why it felt important.

Yes, certainly, the UK licence is valid in the US. I have used mine many times to rent cars there.

However, the converse is not true - if you have resided in the UK for more than one year, your American licence is considered invalid here. I discovered this - embarrassingly - BEFORE I took my UK driving test. A policeman explained this to me. That meant that I was illegally driving and it would have meant no insurance coverage in the event of an accident. DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU! Luckily, I already had the appointment for the test when the year was up, so I quickly took and passed the test on the first go.

BTW: In my opinion, the UK driving test is moderately difficult. The examiners have a quota of failures they are supposed to give. You need to be well-prepared, but if you've been taking lessons, you probably are. My driving instructor "managed" to get me to the testing centre 5 minutes late that morning, and the examiner was p****** off. He began the test in quite a huff and stopped me in the middle and lectured me on how I was "frittering away all my points" on minor things. I thought for sure he would fail me. He then said this was typical for BSM - they get you there late and expect the examiner to fail you so they can give you some more lessons.

That's why I would make double sure I was at the testing centre on time, if I were you!

Yes, certainly, the UK licence is valid in the US. I have used mine many times to rent cars there.

However, the converse is not true....

Actually it is. You can us a US license to rent a car in UK.

The examiners have a quota of failures they are supposed to give.

Sorry, but that is simply untrue. Hence the reason the pass rates averages at various testing centres range from 72% to 25%. The national average is 42.8%,  but not because the  examiners have a 57% quota  they need to fill   If you drive well and don't accrue too many errors you will pass. Examiners are honestly not trying to fail anyone.

Rosie