Bad Experience Coming back after Christmas without UK Resident Card

No, I'm not really sure!  Sorting my residency status happened a while ago and I forgot the details. 

I've never wanted to get UK citizenship because I never needed it, and would rather not swear allegiance to the queen. 

I take your point about how if the UK really does leave the EU then I could conceivably be kicked out.  That option seems so unlikely that I just refuse to contemplate it.  I look around my office and see that at least half the workers are from the EU, and think there is no way all those people are going to have to leave.  If it does actually happen, I'm not sure I want to be here.  It will be like the day after the Rapture and I'll pass on that as well.

Thanks for pointing it out though, certainly food for thought

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if the UK really does leave the EU then I could conceivably be kicked out. 

I am pretty sure a reciprocal agreement would be worked out during renegotiations (what a process that would be)....I can't see the UK wanting all the British citizens on the continent back.

But to me, likewise, it is madness to contemplate...

I called them and said that we are going to Norway for Christmas, there's not enough time to apply for another one. They said all I need to have on returning, is proof of my wife's job in the UK, proof of marriage and proof that we live here.

When we arrive back at Heathrow on 29 Dec, we had all the paperwork ready and guess what? The agent didn't look at, didn't even want to look at it. All she kept doing was flipping through my password repeating "Where's your endorsement, you need an endorsement"?

I kept trying to tell her, that I do not need an endorsement, European law is quite clear. I told her I had all the relevant documentation with me that was required, but she refused to look at it. She seemed offended at what I saw saying and barely looked at me in the eyes.

11(4).

11(4).

Didn't matter. I had a couple pages of this printed out for the agent to look out. Again, she was either ignorant or just didn't care.

Just as an aside:

Home Office refuses Surinder Singh case because applicant knows law

"Furthermore, you have provided a detailed covering letter explaining why you qualify for an EEA Family Permit under Regulation 9. You have quoted case law and the rules concerning how long someone can work in a member state and qualify under Regulation 9. It is clear from this letter that you and your British spouse have gone to extensive lengths to understand fully Regulation 9 of the EEA Regulations which suggests that your reason for living in the France is merely to qualify under the Surinder Singh provision and to circumvent the Settlement procedure."

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/home-office-refuses-surinder-singh-case-because-applicant-knows-law/

Now THAT is interesting! I guess it is not good to quote too much law!

We are doing the SS Route, starting with us coming to the UK March 1 to finish hubby's citizenship. This, in the long run, will save us thousands and thousands of pounds in Visa fees. And NO I've had it told to me and read enough of the case law to know that is is NOT a loophole. It is a legal means of living in the UK with my family.

Further update everyone! I was actually wondering if I should start a new thread, but seeing as I have no desire to summarize the story that  is already at the beginning of the thread, decided I would give the update here.

When I arrived home today from work there was a horrible letter from the "Interventions & Sanctions Directorate". It said that "According to our records you have no legal basis to be in the UK..." and "...As you have no lawful basic to be in the UK we are requesting that the Secretary of State for Transport revokes your driving licence..." It goes on to say that I should take steps to leave the UK immediately blah blah blah. It threatens me with a 10 year ban from entering the UK, 6 months in prison and a fine up to £5000.

What the !!!.

I called the number on the back, was presented with 4 options, number 4 being that you think you don't fit into any of the previous 3 options. The person I spoke to then said they can't do or say anything to me. Instead, he gave me another number. When I called that number it gave more phone numbers, the one being relevant to me is the European applications number. I called that number which is the regular Liverpool number that I always call when I have a question about my UK residence card application anyway. They said they couldn't help me either.

So, all I can do now (after I write this) is write an email to the address provided on the letter.

This is ridiculous.  I am here in the UK as a spouse of an EEA national. As you know, I had a UK residence card, it expired, applied for another one (since we were out of the UK for almost 4 years I don't qualify for ILR), it got rejected due to me forgetting to sign the payment form, had to travel to Norway for Christmas, was told by the Liverpool people to have proof of my spouse exercising her European rights when arriving back after Christmas, encountering a border who flat out refused to look at any of my paperwork but wrongly made me fill out a landing card and stamped my password with the hand written words "6 months for paperwork", applied for the UK residence card again, this time payment was successfully taken and today I get this letter!

I am guessing that computer systems around the Home Office are not linked up correctly. Why else would they send this to me?

After I got a hold of someone in Liverpool and causally mentioned that why would I get this letter anyway, since as the spouse of an EEA national don't even need the UK residence card though of course it makes life easier. He then said that I do, everyone that wasn't a EEA national needs a visa.

I replied that the UK residence card is not a visa, it is a document that only confirms the rights that I already have as a family member of an EEA national exercising her European rights. He flat out refused to believe me. I ever read this passage to him from the .gov website:

1. Overview
You may be able to apply for a residence card if you’re from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) and you’re the family member, or extended family member, of an EEA national.

You don’t need to apply for a residence card as a family member but it can:

help you re-enter the country more quickly and easily if you travel abroad
show employers you’re allowed to work in the UK
help prove you qualify for certain benefits and services
You must apply for a residence card or have a valid EEA family permit if you’re an extended family member.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-residence-card/overview

I asked him why the official website differed what he was saying. He just said "I don't know but you need a visa". He sounded just like the border agent we encountered coming back after Christmas. They are robots.

Remember, this is the same office that told me otherwise in December and did agree that the the residence card is not obligatory but sure makes my life easier.

Despite that disagreement, he was helpful and told me that if 2 more weeks pass and I haven't gotten my biometric instructions, to write to a certain email address.

Does any have any advice? Why are Home Office/Border Agents so ignorant of the law. I swear this whole episode makes me want to retrain as a immigration lawyer!

Good gracious. That's awful. Honestly if I were you I'd get my MP involved at this point. It's not an option I'd usually advocate for for the usual UKVI incompetence  but it seems like you're just being met with constant and never ending nonsense. 


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Yes, that might be a good idea. I will write to my MEP as well.

Looks like my reply didn't post.

I would contact Victoria Sharkey at Medi visas this point.  She excellent and will give sound advice.

I do not know why you've received that letter but I wouldn't ignore it.  Something has been flagged in the UKVI system and I think you may need a professional to help clear it at this point.  Keep us updated!

I'm not ignoring it! I just finished writing them an email.

Here is what I wrote (minus the attachments)



Dear Interventions & Sanctions Directorate,

This email is in response to your letter to me  dated 09 February 2016 and received by me on 11 February 2016. HO reference: Blank, CID Reference: xxxxxxx

Your letter says your records show that I have no lawful basis to be in the UK and steps will be made, if I don't reply within 10 days, to request that the Secretary of State for Transport revoke my driving licence.

Please note that I am residing in the UK as a spouse of an EEA National (Norwegian) who is exercising her European rights as a full time employee for a UK company.

Under European Free Movement rights, I have the same right to live and work in another EU country as my spouse. Please see: http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=463&langId=en

Norway is not a member of the EU, but as a member of the EEA, is considered the same as EU nationals for the purpose of European free movement and applies also to their family members. Please see: http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=470&langId=en

I am currently in the process of acquiring a UK residence card. As you know, this card is not required for the Non EEA family members of EEA Nationals and does not give any rights but merely confirms the existing European ights stated above. Please see: https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-residence-card/overview

However, as the website points out, life is much harder without it and so have applied for another one. Currently, the £65 payment has been taken from my card and I am awaiting my biometric instructions to arrive in the post. I rang the European Citizen Enquire centre today (who handles my application for a UK Residence Card) and a helpful member of staff said if my biometric paperwork doesn't arrive in a fortnight (25 February 2016), to email eurobiometrics@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk.

Other information that is relevant to my situation:

1) I had a previous residence card that was valid from Sept 2010 until Sept 2015. As we were out of the UK for 3 years and 9 months, I am not able to apply for ILR (as my 5 years resets) hence me applying for another UK residence card.
2) My application in October 2015 for another UK residence card was refused simply due to me forgetting to sign the payment form (£65).
3) After the decision of number 2, I spoke to the Home Office staff in Liverpool, and told them we needed to fly to Norway for Christmas. As correct under the law, I was told by them to make sure to have proof of my spouse's employment and proof that we've established life in the UK. The border agent was either ignorant of EU or simply didn't care. She refused to look at any of our paperwork, and kept repeating "you need an endorsement". She wrongly made me fill out a landing card, and also wrongly stamp my passport with the hand written words "6 months for paperwork". Afterwards I spoke to the on duty manager who was very sympathetic and said that we were correct in what we did, and then said diplomatically "some of our agents are "better communicators than others". We left pleasantly relieved.

Please find attached to this email the following documentation:

1) UK Residence card application cover letter from 20/01/2015.
2) A copy of my previous UK residence card
3) Rejection letter of my application from October 2015, stating that I had forgotten to sign the payment form (a simple oversight).

If you would like to see copies of passports or marriage certificates, please contact your colleagues at the European Citizens Enquire centre as they currently have that documentation.

I will be also be writing to my local MP as well as my MEP as it seems proper computer systems checks should have shown that I am a spouse of an EEA National and therefore come under the European rules of free movement. My case should be fairly straightforward and simple and so am very surprised things have gotten so out of hand.

I look forward to your reply.

Kind regards,

Name

Moderator note: edited to remove personal details

Looks great!

I know you weren't ignoring it, but just in case someone said you should..., you know!

I would give Vicky a call in the morning.  She'll give some good advice.

I checked out Vicky's prices... £750 is not something I really want to pay right now, Of course, depending on what happens next, I have saved her information in my web browser.

I checked out Vicky's prices... £750 is not something I really want to pay right now, Of course, depending on what happens next, I have saved her information in my web browser.

Well you certainly shouldn't need an attorney. I mean this is a case where if somebody just looks at it....it should be obvious.

The only thing is whether an attorney could help clear this up more quickly. The driving licence is troubling. If you were to be stopped, Larry the Cop isn't going to want to hear about European justice...he's going to issue a citation. This too can be cleared up later, but now we are dealing with the courts.

I just don't know that shutting this thing down as quickly as possible might not keep things from getting more troublesome. But I don't know either whether Vicky, or any other attorney, could do any more than you are doing now.