Bad Experience Coming back after Christmas without UK Resident Card

It would be nice if you could provide some concrete sources, as this is interesting.

You need to look at all the EEA forums to see why they are getting refused PR. The most common one seems to be the failure to have CSI when they relied on being a self sufficient qualified person for a few weeks, to try to not break their 5 years for PR. 

There are some strange refusals though, such as the person who was refused for claiming the benefit Pension Credit from the UK, who then tried to claim PR because she had been dependant on her son for 5 years.

However, my wife is certainly a qualified person as she does a highly skilled job that only a few people are qualified for.

As an EEA citizen she is allowed to use Free Movement. Even if the UK leaves, it sounds like she could get a work visa on the jobs shortages Tier 2s. 

Anyway... why the heck would a Norwegian come to the UK to earn less that £149 a week? One could earn WAY more in Norway doing the most mindless job.

At the moment the MET is set at about £154 (ish) - whatever it is to have to pay NICs. I assume that MET can rise?

As an EEA citizen she is allowed to use Free Movement. Even if the UK leaves, it sounds like she could get a work visa on the jobs shortages Tier 2s. 

You're assuming much about the future with that statement. Even if the UK votes to leave (and I hope it doesn't) it will still be a long time (it might take longer than the 2 years that is required) before a new relationship is carved out, and the UK might be "forced" to accept a similar movement regime that is currently in place if they don't wish high hurdles placed on UK citizens.

But we digress...

You're assuming much about the future with that statement. Even if the UK votes to leave (and I hope it doesn't) it will still be a long time (it might take longer than the 2 years that is required) before a new relationship is carved out, and the UK might be "forced" to accept a similar movement regime that is currently in place if they don't wish high hurdles placed on UK citizens.

But we digress...

Sirius and I have butted heads about this for a while...

We are in uncharted waters....predictions, even polling figures, are pretty much useless at the moment.   

You're assuming much about the future with that statement. Even if the UK votes to leave (and I hope it doesn't) it will still be a long time (it might take longer than the 2 years that is required) before a new relationship is carved out, and the UK might be "forced" to accept a similar movement regime that is currently in place if they don't wish high hurdles placed on UK citizens.

But we digress...

It's "up to 2 years". That doesn't mean that some things can't stop/change straight away.

But with or without the UK, there will be changes for free movement. The EU has not only talked about the changes they are going to be making but they have also dropped some hints that they are looking at further changes to free movement.

Look at -
Ireland wanting the Metock ruling changed to go back to what it was before with non-EEAs not being able to free movement to move to the EEA.
Germany and their "whoever lies, flies" policy and wanting to stop free movement for better benefits.

Then look at what the EU have already offered the UK to stay, some of which just happens to match what the other countries want too, such as the above 

Take a look at what the President Donald Tusk has said for free movement changes in his letters to the leaders of these EEA countries and the hints of more changes to come.

The EU can't afford for the UK to leave. They will offer the moon and back if the UK votes in June to leave- which will just happen to be most of the changes that the leaders of all the EEA countries have already agreed between themselves. We are just pawns.

It's all very interesting reading.

We are just pawns.

"If we had been able to say that we agreed in principle, we could have got whatever kind of Common Market we wanted. I have no doubt of that at all."

Russell Bretherton - UK representative to the Spaak Committee

It's "up to 2 years". That doesn't mean that some things can't stop/change straight away.

It took Greenland much longer than that to leave the EU. Also like Greenland, the UK might get a 2nd referendum to approve the new relationship.

It took Greenland much longer than that to leave the EU. Also like Greenland, the UK might get a 2nd referendum to approve the new relationship.

Forget about how long before free movement ends if the UK votes to leave. The UK will not leave the EU as the EU can't afford for that to happen. It's the changes that have already been agreed that will come in very quickly. A leave vote will mean a second/third referendum until the EU gets the stay vote, but that will only delay changes slightly until after the stay vote. 

Read what has been already agreed, which President Tusk of the European Council said will come in as soon as the UK votes to stay. As said, that offer includes changes that other EEA countries have already asked for too.
There is a very clear statement that looks like Ireland (via that UK offer) has got the changes they wanted to remove the Metock ruling.
This below-

"And an end to the frankly ridiculous situation where EU nationals can avoid British immigration rules when bringing their families from outside the EU. Mr Speaker, this agreement broke new ground – with the European Council agreeing to reverse decisions from the European Court of Justice."
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/david-camerons-full-statement-on-the-eu-deal/

Have a read of President Tusk's letter to that European Council who are making these changes and the hints for more changes for free movement. The Swiss have already voted to limit free movement to their country.

"Member state leaders have met within the framework of the European Council, but their agreement is in no way a document of the European Union, but a text of hybrid character, which is unspecified and not legally binding.

At the moment, the whole thing is nothing more than a deal that has been hammered out down the local bazaar. The European Union, however, is a community of law, in which there are regulated responsibilities. If the British are going to put all their eggs in one basket, in a promise made like this, which has not yet complied with our clean process of law, then, for me, this process of law is more important and preferable."

Alexander Graf Lambsdorff - Vice-President of the European Parliament - 10/04/2016

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/interview/graf-lambsdorff-eu-clearly-went-too-far-in-brexit-concessions/

Another update for you guys!

Last Tuesday (12 April 2016), I'm sitting at my desk at work when my boss (the owner of the company) comes walking briskly into my office and puts a letter in front of me. He doesn't say anything but lets me read it for a sec. My heart sinks.

It's a letter from Immigration Enforcement saying that says[/b][/i][/i] "As a result of working with other Government Agencies, the Home Office has information to indicate that you have been employing MR. XXXXXXXX XXXX XXXXXX and that he/she may not be in have permission to be in the UK and work.[/b][/i]

It goes on to say that if an application has been made to the Home Office (an extension to stay in the UK), the employer needs to complete an online Employer Checking Service. As my application for a 2nd residence card was pending, then this applied to me (it really doesn't but for practical reasons and for the sake of this email lets pretend it does).

I told the entire story to my employer from forgetting to sign the payment form on the initial application form, to the border agent not wanting to look at the very papers the Home Office department in Liverpool told me to show at the border, to the threatening letter I received at home in February.

On Wednesday last week (13 April 2016) HR and myself did the online checking service, which turns out is simply a verification of the Case ID number that is on the Certificate of Application. In other words, to confirm I did not forge my own certificate of application.

Was then told that would take about 5 working days to confirm the validity of the application. The HR person then called a Home Office employer help line who said that my certificate of application to continue working in the UK while my residence card application is pending, was not enough to allow me to continue working. They said if an enforcement officer were to visit the worksite, my employer could face a fine. The HR lady said that I am protected under EU law. The women on the helpline said I wasn't.

I then called the European application centre and explained the situation. He asked me for the phone number HR dialled and I gave it to him. He said that that was a general advice helpline and they have no access to my records. The certificate of application is the Home Office letter that takes precedent over all others. While I was aware of this and explained this to my employer but it was good to get further backup from the European Application Centre in Liverpool.

I then gave him a brief review of my whole story and he agreed that the various Home Office departments do NOT communicate with each other and what most likely happened is that the border agent in December, who refused to look at any of my paperwork, probably flagged something in the system which flagged a number of departments and now those various departments are looking into my case. However, when the situation is cleared up with one, they are not communicating with the other departments, so what is happening now might be akin to the game "Whack a Mole".

My employer knows I am protected under EU law and could see the Home Office miscommunication here. He and 90% of the entire company are EU nationals so they are more attuned to European law than most UK companies. They also employ my wife, so they know I am here legally. The know that all these validation checks on me are not necessary and realize the actual residence card is not even a legal requirement for me.(see previous posts for more info about this).

I am glad that my company has a good overview of the law, as a "regular" UK company might decide to suspend my employment until this situation is taken care of.

The thing that continues to amaze me is the near complete ignorance of Home Office officials about the law. It is almost impossible for them to believe that EU law can apply to a an non EU national even though anyone can find the relevant information with a simple Google search. I'm so happy that the people in Liverpool know the law however and are usually helpful when I ring them!

They also employ my wife, so they know I am here legally. The know that all these validation checks on me are not necessary and realize the actual residence card is not even a legal requirement for me.(see previous posts for more info about this).

As long as your EEA citizen wife continues to be a qualified person at all times, then your RC remains valid and you can work.

The UK is just bringing in a new law that will make illegal working a crime with jail time. Proceeds of crime can be seized. It was talk of the EU boards last year when this bill set off on it's journey through parliament. It's longer jail time for employers, so they are going to be checking.

Sirius,

How come you like bringing this up everytime I update this thread? As I've made this clear countless times, she is exercising her rights and this entire thread is based on that premise. This fact is why this whole "investigation" in my case is silly and shows incompetent and ignorant most of the Home Office seems to be in regards to my case (including border agents). Talk about a waste of taxpayers money (my money).

Sirius,

How come you like bringing this up everytime I update this thread?

Because a lot of people think they can just live in the UK. Sadly, they find out when they apply for PR in the UK that this isn't the case. EEA qualified persons aren't just workers. I thought this new law was a valid point to make. This is an open forum and not just members can read this. Why are you getting upset over me putting this information?

Talk about a waste of taxpayers money (my money).

UKVI are going like most other things have been going, they are being funded by the people who use the service. In this case, they are beng funded by peoples visa fees, hence all the rises in fees. As you are using the EEA route, then you aren't paying for them. EEA citizens and their families are being subbed by the visa fee payers.

Hi Sirius,

It's fine if you bring it up back in the beginning of the thread just to make sure I understand the law. But as evidenced by the thread, I am well aware of the law and I have always known that the EEA spouse must be exercising her/his rights while in the UK. I have made that clear several times within the thread so there's no need to to keep mentioning it everytime I post an update.

But you might be WRONG! And then you might not be entitled to live in the UK! And then you might LEAVE! 

UKVI are going like most other things have been going, they are being funded by the people who use the service. In this case, they are beng funded by peoples visa fees, hence all the rises in fees. As you are using the EEA route, then you aren't paying for them. EEA citizens and their families are being subbed by the visa fee payers.

Which is another reason why The various Home Office departments should not be ignorant of the law and should at the very least, communicate with each other, which my thread shows they clear don't. A simple Google search would show them their own guidance notes pertaining to my situation and save them lots of money! In this case, ignorance certainly is not bliss!