Retiring to the UK - California State Pension

Jeez, what a mess this is all going to be for the UK!

The last time I looked (last year), if you live in Scotland and are planning to stay, you get to use NHS like a regular resident if you are EU or not EU.

The NHS is free at point of use for some people. Last year the UK changed who those people are as the UK decided to end the 'being legally resident in the UK gives free NHS'.


If you look on here you will see people talking about the IHS (Immigration Health Surcharge) as they can no longer have free use the NHS under that new law. Those with a visa of 6 months or less, can’t pay that IHS and will have to buy their own insurance.

In all of the UK you get to use NHS for emergency care, I think, regardless of status, but if you need more than emergency care you have to pay for it unless you are a settled resident.

Nearly, only part of the emergency care is free. i.e. The other year someone said he has received an NHS bill of 36k for his father's use on the NHS when he was visiting. The emergency was that he had a stroke, but only a small part of that emergency treatment was free.

But you can use the NHS during that time while you have CSI and it doesn't penalize you in the process because NHS isn't considered to be in the same class as "public funds" - accessing public funds could throw a kink in your pipeline to naturalization.

You are talking about UK immigration law and EU law there. You will soon pick it up.

EU law is all about a 'right to reside', which the EEA citizen can lose at any time if they cease to be a qualified person. To be a qualified person, they need to make sure they follow UK and EU rules at all times and keep up with any changes the UK makes.

For the economically inactive EEA citizen, students and self sufficient, under EU law they 'must not be am undue burden' to that country - they cannot take welfare from that country nor get healthcare on the same terms as a citizen of that EEA country.



UK immigration law to live in the UK, is a visa with an end date. It hasn't got a cliff drop end like EEA citizens can suddenly have. The “no recourse to public funds'' is a UK immigration thing. “Public Funds” is some of the UK benefits. As the UK changed the free use of the NHS laws in 2015  they must now pay to use the NHS, either via paying the IHS  or private insurance. 

If they have used the NHS without paying and owe more than 1k, then they will be refused a visa to remain or enter, until they clear that bill. That came in earlier, about 2011?

There is now a question on the visa application that asks whether they have used the NHS and UKVI now have access to NHS records, other UK departments records, police records.  You will see posts on here where people did use the NHS for free as a visitor, should have paid but didn't. Even though their bill will be below 1k, they usually run around to get a bill so they can pay that and avoid any delay on their visa.

And then, there this.  http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Health/Services/Overseas-visitors   (italics mine):

"An "Overseas visitor" is a person that is not "ordinary resident" in the UK. Only those who are not ordinarily resident may be charged for NHS treatment and services. Ordinary residence can be described as living lawfully in the UK for settled purposes, as part of a person’s regular order of life. A person's identifiable purpose and whether that purpose has a sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled are the determining factors. ....  It is for NHS healthcare providers to decide when an overseas visitor needs healthcare or services in an NHS hospital and if charges should be applied in compliance with Regulation 2(1) of the National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) (Scotland) Regulations 1989. The regulations include exemptions from charges for certain categories of patient and services:" [there's a link on the page, excerpt from the link follows]

National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) (Scotland) Regulations 1989

Overseas visitors exempt from charges

4.  No charge shall be made in respect of any services forming part of the health service provided for an overseas visitor, being a person or the spouse or child of a person—

(a)who is shown to the satisfaction of the Health Board to be present in the United Kingdom or in a designated area of the Continental Shelf or, if his employer has his principal place of business in the United Kingdom, in or over any area of the Continental Shelf, or on a stationary structure within the territorial waters of the United Kingdom, for the purpose of—

(i)engaging in employment as an employed or self-employed person; or

(ii)working as a volunteer with a voluntary organisation that is providing a service similar to a relevant service as defined in sections 64(3)(b) and 65(3)(c) of the Health Services and Public Health Act 1968(1), in section 16B of the Act(2) or service to which article 71 of the Health and Personal Social Services (Northern Ireland) Order 1972(3) applies; or

(iii)pursuing a course of study where a period of study during the first year of the course is broken by a period or periods of industrial or analogous experience forming an integral part of the course amounting in aggregate to not less than 12 weeks; or

(iv)taking up permanent residence in the United Kingdom; or

(b)who has resided in the United Kingdom for a period of not less than one year immediately preceding the time when the services are provided, whether or not immediately prior to the completion of one years' residence as aforesaid, charges under these Regulations may have been made in respect of services provided as part of the same course of treatment; or....."

Let us just hope neither I nor my daughter becomes ill enough to need a hospital. Minor things she can get looked after at the Uni. I checked the health plan I'm most likely to use and found that there is one, count 'em, ONE GP provider in the target city that accepts that plan as "in network" (this is the plan that my employer will provide). So I guess I'll pretty much be bleeding out of my eyeballs before I go to a doctor, if I can't get in to see her....  unless I purchase a top-up plan there.

Until I'm settled. Which, apparently I am immediately as an Irish citizen  , but not as an EU citizen  , unless I'm working  , in which case it's moot. Until the EU is gone  . And hopefully, not taken us with it!   

And with that, I'm giving up on it and will sort it out later.  Have a good weekend, all!

I take back what I said about remaining to be convinced that a person who has a CSI can still use the NHS for free since the UK made NHS changes. A couple of days ago I found this

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/507694/Overseas_chargeable_patients_2016.pdf

It is for all 4 countires NHS and is dated April 2016.

For EEA citizens it talks of "right to reside". It is reading that although many other countries bill EEA citizens for healthcare if they are not in work in their country, the UK has decided to give them that for free if the EEA citizen has a "right to reside".

Remember that just living in the UK does not give a "right to reside", only the EEA citizen being a "qualifed person" at all times, gives that. 

Have a read, but remember that a self sufficient must still have a CSI for themselves and all the family, under the way the UK defines what a "qualifed person" is. AND keep an eye out for any changes the UK makes for EEA citizens in the UK, as they are allowed to do under EU law.

Until I'm settled. Which, apparently I am immediately as an Irish citizen  , but not as an EU citizen  , unless I'm working  , in which case it's moot.

An EEA citizen worker is not "settled", they are just a worker qualified person.

EEA citizens need 5 of being a qualified persoin at all times to be classed as "settled" (have PR) in that country but PR is still EU law. They can mix and match what type of qualified person they are, but must be one at all times to-
a. Have a right to reside in the UK.
b. Not reset their '5 years to PR' clock back to zero.

Then they need another year on PR, before they can  apply for British citizenship. If they are granted British citizenship, then they are no longer using EU laws to be in the UK.

Irish citizens are "settled" as soon as they reside in the UK under a century old agreement between the UK and the Republic of Ireland.

You are choosing to be an EEA citizen in the UK instead of an Irish citizen, so that you can use EU laws for your daughter. For your daughter's sake, you must follow EU rules in the UK at all times.

Hi Sirius -

Yes, I've got it.     Thanks. 

One further question, in case you might know. If I go in as a worker, with a back-up eligibility for self-sufficient/self-supporting, but am unable to find employment right away , would that negatively impact my daughter's status? (Realistically, since I can't even make change for a pound right now without having to look at a chart of the coins, I have a bit of a learning curve before one could say I was completely marketable.) I am assuming not, but I wonder how many extra logistical/bureaucratic hoops that will add to our plans? Since we'll both have CSI, and I'll be supporting her completely (more or less), I would think it's not an issue, but I expect that when we file for a residency card for her I'll have to state my status as either employed or self-sufficient at that point?

Nan

Hi Sirius -

Yes, I've got it.     Thanks. 

One further question, in case you might know. If I go in as a worker, with a back-up eligibility for self-sufficient/self-supporting, but am unable to find employment right away , would that negatively impact my daughter's status? (Realistically, since I can't even make change for a pound right now without having to look at a chart of the coins, I have a bit of a learning curve before one could say I was completely marketable.) I am assuming not, but I wonder how many extra logistical/bureaucratic hoops that will add to our plans? Since we'll both have CSI, and I'll be supporting her completely (more or less), I would think it's not an issue, but I expect that when we file for a residency card for her I'll have to state my status as either employed or self-sufficient at that point?

Nan

I think you would have to have a job to be a worker qualified person. You could be jobseeker qualfied person. You would be alllowed 6 months max as a jobseeker person (the UK changed the rules for that in 2014) the 3 months your EEA passport allowed you to be in the UK plus another 3 months with evidence of being a jobseeker = 6 months.

Or if you have the funds/income enter as a self sufficient qualifed person with a CSI for each of you and then find a job and become a worker qualifed person? The quicker you start being a qualfied person then the quciker you reach 5 years to PR - although it is unlikely there will be 5 years of EU law to Brexit. ??

Have a read of this as it explains what a qualified person is in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/488449/Qualified_Persons_v3.0_ext_clean.pdf