Should I file tax - I've never lived in the US and I have no assets in the US

Amazing. They nonchalantly assume that anyone still non-compliant is wilfully avoiding their taxes. I've lived 40 years in the UK without a clue that I was a US tax resident. What a bolt from the blue it has been, solely due to my sister working in the states and telling me!
Well, here's to lost innocence!

Amazing. They nonchalantly assume that anyone still non-compliant is wilfully avoiding their taxes. I've lived 40 years in the UK without a clue that I was a US tax resident. What a bolt from the blue it has been, solely due to my sister working in the states and telling me!
Well, here's to lost innocence!

As a US citizen you are bound by the Constitution and all of the laws of the United States enacted since 1776 and all decisions of the Supreme Court of the United States to the extent that any of these relate to you. You have however a constitutional right to renounce if you do not wish to accept these responsibilities.

Amazing. They nonchalantly assume that anyone still non-compliant is wilfully avoiding their taxes. I've lived 40 years in the UK without a clue that I was a US tax resident. What a bolt from the blue it has been, solely due to my sister working in the states and telling me!
Well, here's to lost innocence!

Fifty years for me, and my sister in the US didn't hear of it until I told her.  I heard the news from Yorkshire Building Society.   

But after I took it in, and realized I probably wasn't in fact going to be required to pay 50 years of back taxes (!) I eventually came round to the view expressed by many, that we're just collateral damage.  They're not going to get much money out of most of us, thanks to the FEIC and tax credits, it's really the whales they're after.

They're not going to get much money out of most of us, thanks to the FEIC and tax credits, it's really the whales they're after.

The net need far larger holes then so the shrimp can escape leaving the whales in the net. Unfortunately the net right now has no holes and everything gets caught.

A few years ago, you could plausibly argue that the average American expatriate was not the target of FATCA and other enforcement initiatives. But the US Government has been fully aware of our problems for several years and has done nothing. Some changes would require Congress to change the laws but much of the application and enforcement of these laws lies within the discretion of the Obama administration. Democrats Abroad asked Obama to allow a "Same Country Exception" for FATCA. This is a minor concession but they have been refused. The words and deeds of the administration make their intent entirely clear.

The net need far larger holes then so the shrimp can escape leaving the whales in the net. Unfortunately the net right now has no holes and everything gets caught.

Exactly.

A few years ago, you could plausibly argue that the average American expatriate was not the target of FATCA and other enforcement initiatives. But the US Government has been fully aware of our problems for several years and has done nothing. Some changes would require Congress to change the laws but much of the application and enforcement of these laws lies within the discretion of the Obama administration. Democrats Abroad asked Obama to allow a "Same Country Exception" for FATCA. This is a minor concession but they have been refused. The words and deeds of the administration make their intent entirely clear.

Of course it's unfair.  How best to deal with it, is the question.  Focussing on how unfair it is can get in the way of deciding how best to handle it.

On the other hand  the realization that it's unfair might be a factor in how a person decides to handle it (eg. renunciation rather than continued compliance). 

I guess if I was in the same situation as a few of you I don't think I would hesitate to get rid of the US citizenship. If I had been living in the UK for years and years and now had to keep making the IRS happy.....why would I keep my US citizenship. At some point I will be eligible for UK citizenship.....I'll worry about it then. But if my life will be easier/simpler etc to just switch over to UK citizenship......I wouldn't give it another thought. Now if it will save me money somehow to keep the US citizenship......that's another story.

I guess if I was in the same situation as a few of you I don't think I would hesitate to get rid of the US citizenship. If I had been living in the UK for years and years and now had to keep making the IRS happy.....why would I keep my US citizenship. At some point I will be eligible for UK citizenship.....I'll worry about it then. But if my life will be easier/simpler etc to just switch over to UK citizenship......I wouldn't give it another thought. Now if it will save me money somehow to keep the US citizenship......that's another story.

Unfortunately, renouncing without another thought is not one of the available options.

Edit: In order to renounce, those on lower incomes have to figure out how to get hold of a spare $2350 plus how to file five years of back taxes under a foreign tax jurisdiction, without paying tax that is unaffordable and without making any mistakes that might incur unbelievable penalties.  Those on higher incomes may not have difficulty paying the $2350 but they may face truly gruesome punishment for having too much in the way of assets or having the assets in a form the US views as reprehensible.

So deciding to renounce may not be difficult but getting through it with minimal pain may require quite a lot of thought.

Unfortunately, renouncing without another thought is not one of the available options.

Edit: In order to renounce, those on lower incomes have to figure out how to get hold of a spare $2350 plus how to file five years of back taxes under a foreign tax jurisdiction, without paying tax that is unaffordable and without making any mistakes that might incur unbelievable penalties.  Those on higher incomes may not have difficulty paying the $2350 but they may face truly gruesome punishment for having too much in the way of assets or having the assets in a form the US views as reprehensible.

So deciding to renounce may not be difficult but getting through it with minimal pain may require quite a lot of thought.

I understand that it isn't easy....or cheap. I think you took what I said in a way I didn't mean. For ME........giving up my US citizenship would not be a big deal....emotionally. Yes.....there are hoops to go through, back taxes in many cases have to be figured out.....and it can be a pain. I have noticed many people seem to have a big emotional attachment to being American......all I meant was that to me.....giving up the citizenship wouldn't take much thinking at all if it made my life easier. I am in no way rich.....I am a retired school teacher. My glorious pension is $1279 a month.

I understand that it isn't easy....or cheap. I think you took what I said in a way I didn't mean.

Yes, perhaps.  Apologies.

For ME........giving up my US citizenship would not be a big deal....emotionally. Yes.....there are hoops to go through, back taxes in many cases have to be figured out.....and it can be a pain. I have noticed many people seem to have a big emotional attachment to being American......all I meant was that to me.....giving up the citizenship wouldn't take much thinking at all if it made my life easier. I am in no way rich.....I am a retired school teacher. My glorious pension is $1279 a month.

The Exit Tax is an equal-opportunity nightmare - scary for all, regardless of income.   

IMO, of course.

I guess if I was in the same situation as a few of you I don't think I would hesitate to get rid of the US citizenship. If I had been living in the UK for years and years and now had to keep making the IRS happy.....why would I keep my US citizenship. At some point I will be eligible for UK citizenship.....I'll worry about it then. But if my life will be easier/simpler etc to just switch over to UK citizenship......I wouldn't give it another thought. Now if it will save me money somehow to keep the US citizenship......that's another story.

I feel sorry for the accidental US citizen and many UK citizens that move to the US and have to deal with US taxes for the first time. The US and UK approach and philosophy towards taxation are very different and for the US citizen with a life centered in the UK I can see renouncing as attractive. It will make life so much simpler and allows the use of nice UK tax breaks like ISAs. But it takes a lot of courage to give up your natal citizenship. I would find it hard to give up my natal UK citizenship, but it's not a financial of tax issue for me living in the US because the UK does not have CBT. If I move back to the UK renouncing of my acquired US citizenship is definitely on the cards.

I would LOVE it if the US went to a UK type tax (without it being as high of course ). I would much rather just get taxed on my income.....and it's GONE.....never to be seen again. No deductions.....no way to get around it.....you pay it before you even see it. But......people in power wouldn't like that.......

I feel sorry for the accidental US citizen and many UK citizens that move to the US and have to deal with US taxes for the first time. The US and UK approach and philosophy towards taxation are very different and for the US citizen with a life centered in the UK I can see renouncing as attractive. It will make life so much simpler and allows the use of nice UK tax breaks like ISAs. But it takes a lot of courage to give up your natal citizenship. I would find it hard to give up my natal UK citizenship, but it's not a financial of tax issue for me living in the US because the UK does not have CBT. If I move back to the UK renouncing of my acquired US citizenship is definitely on the cards.

It's not always acquired v. natal though.  I would never  voluntarily give up my acquired UK citizenship.  Renouncing my natal US citizenship didn't cause me any pangs, quite the opposite.

I would LOVE it if the US went to a UK type tax (without it being as high of course ). I would much rather just get taxed on my income.....and it's GONE.....never to be seen again. No deductions.....no way to get around it.....you pay it before you even see it. But......people in power wouldn't like that.......

I'd forgotten how simple the UK system is for most, and even for ourselves with investment income to report (dividends and capital gains).  I did a test UK tax return on our income for 2015 and the UK tax was ~$3k higher than the US, but we paid $8,400 in health insurance premiums alone.

We don't know yet how onerous to us dual reporting is going to be and we have children living in the USA so have no plans to renounce as yet.  Emotionally it will not be an issue to renounce our naturalized US citizenship if FATCA becomes too much of a burden.