Third Time's the Charm..

Later this year I will be moving back to the UK for the third time, this time with my soon to be husband. When I lived in the UK before I lived in London and my friends were mostly from continental Europe. My fiance's friends and family are the only British people I've ever spent significant time with and I'm a little worried about fitting in with them.

The first time I met my fiance's big group of school friends was after we were engaged. They were all very excited and invited themselves along to brunch the next morning. However, when we got there they barely acknowledged me. No one asked to see my ring or asked about the proposal or the wedding planning. They barely spoke to me at all. Instead, they focused all their attention on another couple in their clique who had gotten engaged a few months prior. When I asked my fiance about it later he said that they probably felt that we should have "waited our turn" to get married and that there is a "hierarchy" so by not acknowledging me they were showing their friend that they were on "her side". I am 29 years old and didn't even experience this behavior in high school. It's just baffling.

I've had similarly uncomfortable experiences with my fiance's family. In all the time I've spent with them, including a week long holiday where we shared an apartment, no one has asked me a single question about myself. I don't even think they know what I do for a living. My fiance's sister-in-law sent me a message on Facebook to ask a question about the wedding and she actually said "I've just realized I know nothing about you". I suppose it's positive that she finally noticed?

The last time I visited his family they sat on the couch in silence watching a nature documentary. No one even said hello to me. I was a guest in someone's home so I didn't feel like it was appropriate to interrupt so that I could be the center of attention so eventually we just left. Since I live in the US they don't having very many opportunities to see me, so it hurts my feeling when they don't show any interest in me when I'm visiting. I'm not sure what their opinion is of me. I think his brother and sister-in-law thought I was an immigrant seeking a better life for awhile based on some comments they've made. They saw some photos of my apartment I posted on Facebook and were very surprised that I have a nice apartment and live a comfortable life... My boyfriend said that maybe I don't fit their stereotype of an American and so they don't know what to do with me, which I suppose could be true. Only his brother and sister-in-law have been to the States. But they've only been to Florida and I'm from a suburb of Boston which is like night and day.

They are from a village where everyone knows everyone. I think there are three major families in the area and everyone shares those last names. They usually only talk about very local things going on in town and there is no way I can contribute to the conversation. When I try to change the subject to something I can actually talk about, it takes all of 30 seconds for someone to change it back. The whole thing is disheartening. I'm leaving my entire life and family behind but I'm not feeling very welcomed by my new family.

Any tips for integrating with my new British social circle?

"I've just realized I know nothing about you". I suppose it's positive that she finally noticed?

I sense middle class/aspirationalism here. "I've just realized I know nothing about you," is code of some sort.

The next time you are around your fiance's "big group of school friends" - which is a loaded phrase in itself - make a statement like, "You know.....I am looking to book a short get-away later in the year....but it is sooo confusing....".

This will give you a good indication of who you are dealing with (although it might seem to them like you are trying to do the old time honoured "drop in on friends on holiday" routine).

Yikes!  Just so you know, this is NOT normal.

Will you do okay in a small village?  As you are used to a bigger city, the best thing you can do is get out and make your own friends by finding activities that you like (dance classes, knitting, walking groups).  But will there be much going on in a small village? 

You marry the family, not just the man.  You have to make sure moving to the UK is what is right for both of you.  In other words, you may want to proceed with caution.  Leaving everyone and everything you know behind is no small ask.

I have to agree with KFdancer. I don't typically like to tell people what I think on a life altering decision like this but since I did relocate to the UK into a smaller type of village, you should keep in mind that everyone knows everybody's business and it really helps if the people who do know you, support you.  All it takes is one of his family members to air something about you and word travels fast. May not be the end of the world but I can assure you, it will get old and you will wonder "wth have I done?" I would recommend, if at all possible, living away from the family.   Even a town over.  They sound incredibly insular (which can happen anywhere) and I don't think you can change that overnight.

From your explanation it sounds like your fiancé has friends and family that don't respect him very much.  He probably doesn't deserve that treatment whatsoever.  I'd keep at the forefront of your mind that you should set and plan things up for your future as a couple that is the most sustainable choice, being around supportive and respectful people is going to be key.  I'd recommend thinking of options for both of you where you can both be happy.  Most importantly, tell your fiancé how you are feeling about all of this.  Good luck.  You will be able to figure something out.


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@NewMeetsOldEngland I know EXACTLY how you feel. Some of my husband's friends and his family acts this way, though it sounds like it way worse in your situation. I do think sonofasailor is right about middle class/aspirationalism but I also think that some people here are very suspicious of outsiders and VERY resistant to change. It can be hard to them to see outside of whatever village they are from. My MIL is constantly telling me she doesn't understand me. Honestly it's hard to say exactly what it is that causes people to act this way. My husband has noticed it too but doesn't know why.

I would warn you though to really consider leaving your family and life behind. Even though I've gained a lot here in some ways, that aspect of what you are talking about hasn't really gotten better and I miss access to my own family and friends, who have always made my husband feel welcome. If I had to do it over, I'm not sure I would have left the US. You need to feel at home and they aren't making you feel at home. That being said, if you do move here, I wouldn't concern yourself with the question "how to break into an english social circle." I would approach it as how to do you make a circle of your own that you are happy with that includes people you can count on. And when you do see your family, just keep it light and superficial, talking about the weather, etc. Sounds depressing I know but why waste your thoughts and energy on people who don't reciprocate? I see my DH's family at least every month and listen to them gossip about their friends and talk about the past, but at least I know I have my own people I can reach out to.

All I can say too is that it takes some shifting of thought, which i'm still figuring out. Some Brits do no get personal, even if it seems like something innocent and even if they are around their own friends. Sometimes even saying hi is something that makes them feel awkward. There also can be what seems like callousness, which is hard to get to grips with. Of course i'm not saying EVERYONE is this way, but it's traits you will notice that can come off as confusing for Americans. I've said this before in some other thread but watch "Very British Problems" the tv show, you will learn a lot!

I wouldn't concern yourself with the question "how to break into an english social circle." I would approach it as how to do you make a circle of your own that you are happy with that includes people you can count on.

Really, really take this advice!

My situation is different, I came here for work and met my husband.  I'm always grateful that I didn't give up my life in the US for him and that it was my independent choice to move here.

He has a great family.  They are lovely people and certainly have always made me feel welcome.  BUT we have had a kid since we married and his parents are really not involved and are NOT a support system for us.  While I would never want a grandparent burdened with regular childcare, there have been times where my husband and I have really struggled and an extra pair of hands would have been unbelievably welcome.  While I cannot count on my inlaws to help, I CAN count on my friends.  For which I am incredibly grateful!  My husband REALLY wants to have a second child and I am very hesitant (for a few reasons) but one of the biggest is that we don't have any family support.   

I laughed when I read about the hidden rule that says you should have waited until your turn to get married. 

Better get used to those ridiculous hidden rules that supposedly everyone knows about but you.  Usually no one else has ever even thought about it but the idiot trying to enforce it. 

I ignore all that ridiculous crap and I'm sure it endlessly angers the neighbors and co workers who probably tut up a storm but ultimately accept it.  Or not, I don't care!


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I can not tell you how happy it made me that several people mentioned middle class/aspirationalism. There is a very strange dynamic in my fiance's family. His parents are definitely working class. But his brother happened to fall for the girl who lives down the street whose parents work in accounting. I grew up on the South Shore of Massachusetts where it is very unusual to not have some form of degree, and most people have two parents working in white collar professions. His sister-in-law's (we'll call her Jane) parents are literally the only people with "careers" that they know. It's a nice stable career, but to me I would classify them as middle class, not extravagantly wealthy. Jane's parents make a big show of having more money and very inconsiderate of other people. For example, making a group of people travel over an hour on a hot crowded bus (when you have a rental car and could easily meet everyone else near their hotel) so you can have lunch at your favorite vacation spot and show everyone how Jenson Button eats there too, or picking a restaurant that none of your daughter's friends on £18k salaries can afford, letting them order only appetizers and be anxious throughout the meal, and then making a big show of paying for it when the bill comes. I have literally heard my fiance's parents say "it's not the way we would do it, but maybe that's how 'people like them' are supposed to behave and we just don't understand." There is also a very big difference in how Jane and Bob (fiance's brother) treat her parents and how they treat his parents.

I get the impression from Jane and Bob that they expect people to be overly impressed by them, and when I'm not, it throws them for a loop. I was talking my fiance's sister about how it's tough for him getting married so soon after his brother because inevitably there will people saying "well why don't you do what Bob did". And her response was "No one expects you to have a wedding like Bob and Jane. It was extravagant, some would say too extravagant." It was pretty comparable to every wedding I've ever been to, but this is the way they are perceived within my fiance's family. Despite being the younger sibling Bob was always the example to live up to because he was able to keep a stable relationship and "married up". My fiance was always the butt of everyone's jokes but now that I'm in the picture I think it's shaking up the family dynamic that has been in place for over a decade. Neither of them went to university or have careers, and although they were the first in their friendship group to get married and own a house (Jane's parents gave them a house deposit instead of an inheritance) all their friends are finally catching up to them, which I'm sure is shaking up their world a bit too.

But other than these odd family dynamics my situation probably isn't quite as bad as I made it out to be. I did my Masters at London Business School so I do have friends over there and will have a network to fall back on. My Maid of Honor lives in London and she is getting married not long after I am so we'll both be in the same place in life. While my fiance's family is from a more rural area I think it's becoming less isolated with people trying to buy property further outside of London. We'll be living about 30 minutes away close to Reading so I should be able to commute into the city when I need to. My fiance is in the RAF but he's reached a point in his career where he has a say in where he goes and how long he stays there, so we're hoping to live in some former US Air Force housing he has access to that is "built to American tastes" (aka larger). I moved down to DC about a year ago for work and haven't made much of an effort to make friends since I know I will be moving anyway so it's not like I'm leaving too much behind here, but if it was up to me I would be reloacting to MA rather than the UK.

I'm not the most extroverted person anyway so I'm comfortable not having a big group of friends and have never really been one for peer pressure or fitting in, but I would at least like to get to a place where they aren't actively snubbing me.

@NewMeetsOldEngland OMG, i'm just reading your post shaking my head in agreement. I can relate to this so much. And now that I know a bit of that backstory, your in-laws behavior makes a lot more sense too. My MIL is always talking about being posh, showing off what she buys, turning her nose up at our "depressing" London flat (even though everyone who sees it says it's really nice) and I would say my DH's parents are middle class and live in a very average house in Essex, which isn't exactly Beverly Hills.

It does sound like jealousy to me (of both him and you) and another thing is some English people have a weird relationship with success, as in they really resent it and root for the underdog. I've actually looked this up trying to understand it. So not only are you well educated and have a good job but also American, where it's kind of a mother being jealous of her beautiful daughter kind of relationship.

The class system mentality is still in place that's why I think they arent flexible to a lot of things. When i do go to Essex, I definitely get the feeling that women are supposed to be "x" and men are supposed to do "y." And couples are supposed to stay in their towns, have kids and even have certain kinds of jobs, ones that are not too low class but not high class either. And when none of this goes the way it's suppose to, then it's hard to understand and at worst, resented.

As far as your family not snubbing you, don't have a lot of advice there. I did confront my MIL about her behavior once, in which she just denied everything. She's reined herself in a bit and still tries to pull things behind my back. I dread having kids here because I don't want to be that close to them, it's hard for me to feel like they are family. The only thing that has kept me sane is my husband being on the same page as me as always being a united front when we are around them.

I'm in Wokingham and run a Facebook group called "Americans in the Reading and Wokingham areas of the UK".  Join us for a meetup!

I too laughed at the "we should have waited our turn to get married" comment.  That is just SO RIDICULOUS!

I'm in Wokingham and run a Facebook group called "Americans in the Reading and Wokingham areas of the UK".  Join us for a meetup!

That sounds great! I probably won't be in the UK until December (wedding is at the end of September and I figure it's best to start searching for a job after the holidays are over) but I will definitely look you up when I get there!

I sense middle class/aspirationalism here. "I've just realized I know nothing about you," is code of some sort.

The next time you are around your fiance's "big group of school friends" - which is a loaded phrase in itself - make a statement like, "You know.....I am looking to book a short get-away later in the year....but it is sooo confusing....".

This will give you a good indication of who you are dealing with (although it might seem to them like you are trying to do the old time honoured "drop in on friends on holiday" routine).

I'm interested in what this "code" means and what the responses to the statement you mentioned should tell me. I have a guess, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

I've said this before in some other thread but watch "Very British Problems" the tv show, you will learn a lot!

Ha! I sent my fiance a link to a video from the Christmas special. I think it was James Corden who talking about the difference between how Americans and Brits approach holidays. He said the Americans go all out and put in a lot of effort for their guests while the Brits are like "meh, I just found this turkey in my cupboard". I have a cousin who lives in the UK (although she'll be moving to NZ with her Kiwi husband soon) and when she met my fiance for the first time she called ahead to ask what his favorite beers were so she could buy them for him and make him feel at home. Meanwhile I meet my future in-laws and am barely acknowledged.

It does sound like jealousy to me (of both him and you) and another thing is some English people have a weird relationship with success, as in they really resent it and root for the underdog. I've actually looked this up trying to understand it. So not only are you well educated and have a good job but also American, where it's kind of a mother being jealous of her beautiful daughter kind of relationship.

Jealousy and things not being "how they are supposed to be" sounds about right. My fiance's father's birthday was recently and he and his brother agreed on each getting gift cards of a certain amount plus bottles of wine. On the day of his birthday his brother didn't have the money, and wanted them to each give their dad £30. My fiance said that's fine, but he had already purchased the higher value gift card and a bottle of wine, so he was sticking to the original plan. I guess there was some sort of an incident where his brother threw a tantrum because he felt it wasn't fair that my fiance should be able to buy their father a more expensive gift. Most likely because he is supposed to be the more successful one and my fiance having more disposable income is not the way the heirarchy works.

Dang. That sounds like a really 'fun' family dynamic they have. I definitely wisih you the best of luck traversing it.

I have to say that your visit with them does sound a bit like my visits with my inlaws... Not a whole lot of talking going on. I have very little idea about what to talk about with them. We do try, but the conversation tends to be a bit stilted and a whole lot of awkward pauses. We don't really have any common interests so I don't really know what kind of questions to ask.

I hope things go okay for you! You seem like you have a good idea about what's going on in the family/village and will be able to make good decisions. Definitely keep some of these folks advice in mind.

Brits are weird... some of them are fantastic and others are...well...not.

The last time I visited his family they sat on the couch in silence watching a nature documentary. No one even said hello to me.

This also sounds like my in-laws. We found out we're expecting a couple of months ago and when we told them we just got an "oh that's nice", then FIL turned on our TV to watch a WWII documentary and didn't say another word until they left. MIL prattled on about bargain shopping, which seems to be her only interest.

Had our first ultrasound, got a few pictures from it, scanned and emailed them so they could see their first grandchild. MIL sent a text to let us know FIL got the email. And that was it. He couldn't even be bothered to respond to the email and say it himself.

I'm interested in what this "code" means and what the responses to the statement you mentioned should tell me. I have a guess, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Well I read with interest, on another forum, that "You are looking well" actually means "You have gotten fat".

I stewed on that for days....I mean I appreciate the intricacies of the backhanded complement in the English language...going back to Shakespeare, and on up through Wilde and Austen...then to Coward..

It is an art form, to take something like language and turn it into this layered jousting match....removing emotional cues....but crap it is a lot of work. And with "You are looking well," I think it is distasteful to use something that should so obviously be a good thing and seed in all sorts of stuff about weight, something we really should be moving past.

Something like, "I've just realized I know nothing about you," is a crappy barb....there is no response possible...it is just aggression. I was thinking, "Oh, no problem, for the longest time I assumed you were the help, forgive me" would be a good comeback, but then it is open warfare, and who needs that? 

I am not necessarily against this sort of thing, or aspirationalism, except that I run anything like this through my immigrant filter. Cliques exist, people engage in class division and social bonding - but it can be a barrier to an immigrant's integration....something I hear people say immigrants aren't doing enough of.

But how do you integrate if when you go out to dinner with a table of husband's friends you are given the cold shoulder?

Perhaps with some cultures, there is a tendency to choose not integrate...maybe due to religion or something, and language can be a barrier...but I think Americans....in general...I'll say the ones I know, and most on this board, are actually seeking integration.

SoS, when I was pregnant, I got the "You're looking well" comment all the time.  There was NO other way to interpret it than "Wow, you are roughly the size of a small hippo."