Hello
Guest

Sponsored Links


Topic: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh  (Read 3147 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

  • *
  • Posts: 3284

  • Liked: 278
  • Joined: Sep 2014
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 11:45:03 AM by Sirius »


  • *
  • Posts: 4167

  • Liked: 531
  • Joined: Jul 2005
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2016, 01:33:47 PM »
"Some of this is obviously and transparently in breach of EU law."

See:

"sanctions refusal “where the purpose of the residence in the EEA State was as a means for circumventing any immigration laws applying to non-EEA nationals to which [the family member] would otherwise be subject"

Clearly a (continued) breach. May is not a fan of the law.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


  • *
  • Posts: 3284

  • Liked: 278
  • Joined: Sep 2014
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2016, 07:05:28 PM »
It seems to be mainly the Singh route that is changing.

The rest is just confirming what we already know, imo.
i.e.
- No right of appeal for refusals of RCs for Extended Family Members - we already knew about this as the courts have been ruling in the UK's favour when they take the UK to court.
- No in-country right of appeal for the EEA citizens and their family members - being able to remove EEA citizens and all their family members and ban them,  has been allowed since free movement was invented. The Directive being quite clear that the EEA citizen must be a "qualified person" to have a "right to reside" in another member state with their family members, past the initial 3 months visit they are allowed.
-91 days only with proof, for those trying to claim PR in the UK as a jobseeker qualified person.
etc

Just Singh it seems, to stop the loophole of using that route just to avoid UK immigration laws.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 10:31:22 AM by Sirius »


  • *
  • Posts: 3284

  • Liked: 278
  • Joined: Sep 2014


  • *
  • Posts: 3284

  • Liked: 278
  • Joined: Sep 2014
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2016, 11:30:09 AM »
From the above new UK rules, we can see that the UK government have ended what they call "fraud" used by some non-EEA citizens, to be in the UK.

Singh has ended for these non-EU citizens who use Singh to get to the UK to avoid UK immigration rules,. This will include:
- using a Sham marriage to an EEA/UK citizen
- marriage to a Brit and using Singh to avoid UK immigration rules.

Now there is this document released for those using Singh for the UK which makes it all clearer.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/572728/Family-members-of-British-citizens-_v1_0.pdf

If you haven't received your UK Resident Card by 25 November 2016, then the new rules apply to you also. Those already in the UK on a Family Permit, are under the new rules, even if you have your RC application in.

This is not a problem for the genuine who used Singh in the spirit it was intended for and not just to avoid UK immigration rules


« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 12:20:43 PM by Sirius »


  • *
  • Posts: 3284

  • Liked: 278
  • Joined: Sep 2014
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2016, 11:57:28 AM »
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/572728/Family-members-of-British-citizens-_v1_0.pdf

My understanding from the quick look I have had, confirms what it seemed to be saying in the link in the first post - that some using Singh will now need to buy CSIs (Comprehensive Sickness Insurance) that covers  any exisiting conditions too, to be allowed to remain in the UK. Those on EU routes to the UK and who need to buy these CSIs, and not offered the £200 a year IHS that the non-EEA citizens on UK spouse visa has.

If they are granted an RC via Singh, for their RC to remain valid so that they can continue to reside in the UK, their British citizen must now exercise treaty rights as a "qualifed person" too, as an EEA citizen must do.  There is no more of the Brit being classed as an EU 'worker qualified person'  when they aren't: which then allowed their non-EEA family members to reside in the UK and have free use of the NHS. The same as an Irish citizen must already do to bring in non-EEA family members to the UK under EU routes.

The obvious difference is that although their non British family members might have to buy a CSI each, the Brit won't need a CSI as they can use their NHS for free when they reside in the UK.

I'm happy to be corrected.

I haven't read it all.






« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 12:09:01 PM by Sirius »


  • *
  • Posts: 3284

  • Liked: 278
  • Joined: Sep 2014
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2016, 02:32:26 PM »

- No in-country right of appeal for the EEA citizens and their family members - being able to remove EEA citizens

It looks like this part isn't in yet, just the potential for out of country appeals for those that have no "right to reside"? As UK immigration rules are starting 'out of country appeals only' from 1st December, it might be a "when" and not an "if", for those trying to use EU routes to the UK?.

I assume any out of country appeals only for EEAs, would affect the EEA citizens and all their family members who are not meant to be residing in the UK as the EEA citizen has ceased to be a "qualified person"?

On the last page of this document it talks of removal (EU term for deportation) and banning for 10 years. Which is under UK immigration rules when they refuse to leave the UK when told to do so.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 09:56:01 AM by Sirius »


  • *
  • Posts: 3284

  • Liked: 278
  • Joined: Sep 2014
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 10:24:02 AM »
As expected, there are quite a few posts on other forums now on these new rules, as the UK seems to be applying some/all(?) of these rules on Singh, retrospectively, as allowed under EU laws.

The European Court of Justice who made the Singh ruling, has made it quite clear to the EEA countires, that 3rd county citizens (non-EEA citizens) cannot use the Singh route just to avoid the immigration rules of their country.

The UK is applying this ruling, not only for RC applications but to the non-EEA citizens trying for PR too (a PR card is needed to try to get British citizenship before Brexit). Those who are are trying for PR (at least 5 years in the UK) are reporting their British citizen is being asked for proof of their Centre of Life in another EEA country, even though the UK didn't bring that in CoL requirement until 2014. Before 2014,  the Singh abuse to avoid UK immigration rules, was just a few weeks in another EEA country and then enter the UK.

As all this filters through, some who used the Singh route to enter the UK to avoid UK immigration rules, stating they are now choosing to apply under UK spouse visa rules and paying for all the NHS they have used for free.


The genuine who used the Singh route, are not having problems with getting a PR card in the UK, as the European Court of Justice allows this under their ruling.




« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 11:01:26 AM by Sirius »


  • *
  • Posts: 3284

  • Liked: 278
  • Joined: Sep 2014
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2017, 07:30:53 PM »
Just another warning to those who used the Singh route to avoid the UK immigration rules, as per above.

UKVI seem to  be waiting until these people approach them for their PRC to apply for British citizenship and many are being refused a PRC. When refused, they are having to use UK immigration rules after all and apply for a spouse visa from their own country.

I assume the same will apply when everyone will have to register before Brexit? The UK has already stated that not everyone who registers, will be allowed to remain.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 07:39:43 PM by Sirius »


  • *
  • Posts: 15879

  • Liked: 3778
  • Joined: Jun 2012
  • Location: Wokingham
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 07:42:05 PM »
Rather nasty to have granted leave under SS and then revoke that!  I'm not impressed.

Keep in mind I'm planning a Bon fire to burn all my excess papers next week (teasing....  mostly).


  • *
  • Posts: 4991

  • Liked: 857
  • Joined: Aug 2012
  • Location: End of the M4 and then a bit more.
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2017, 07:55:12 PM »
Rather nasty to have granted leave under SS and then revoke that!  I'm not impressed.

Keep in mind I'm planning a Bon fire to burn all my excess papers next week (teasing....  mostly).

Save it for 5 November... make it symbolic.  :)
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


  • *
  • Posts: 3284

  • Liked: 278
  • Joined: Sep 2014
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 09:38:00 AM »
Rather nasty to have granted leave under SS and then revoke that! 

They weren't. Don't confuse UK immigration rules with the EEA Regulations.  EU rules end at PR and UK immigration rules end at ILR. The EU Regs and UK immigration rules, are not interchangeable.

These were never  "granted leave" to be in the UK, as that is UK immigration rules and these non-EEA citizens were trying to avoid using those. These people were only in the UK on a wing and a prayer.

These non-EEA citizens chose to enter under EU rules and they now have to use the EU Regs. The EU grants their "PR" automaically if their rules are followed continiuosly for 5  years and therefore it is the EU who says they can't have the EU's "PR". Or in this case, it's the highest court in Europe who has said that these non-EEA citzens cannot abuse their Singh Ruling:  which has pleased all the EEA countries as this one of the abuses they all wanted stopped. An end date on the EU's RC means nothing and their EU RC can easily become invalid.

Abuse of the Singh Ruling by third country nationals (to try to avoid the immigration rules of that EEA county) has been well known and well abused over the years and the sheer numbers doing this meant they were always on borrowed time. EEA countries were forced to grant these an RC until the ECJ looked into this abuse on their Ruling, but as said (many times in posts on here  :) ) an EU RC can easily become invalid. An RC is nothing like a UK "visa". There aren't any EU visas.


This was just a chance taken by those who carrried out this "fraud" and the length of time it took the ECJ to look at this, paid off for some. This won't affect the genuine people who used the Singh Ruling, but it does seem rare to find these genuine people.


Those third country nationals who used this "fraud" as the EEA countries call it, would have known the European Court of Justice, who made the Singh Ruling, was looking into this abuse and also would have known how slowly the ECJ moves. Everybody who uses EU Regs also knows that changes can be made retrospectively.

Last year the ECJ finally stated that third country nationals (non-EEA citizens) cannot use their Singh Ruling to avoid the immigration rules of that country: it is an abuse of the ECJ Ruling.

Last year, quite a few then realsed that their gamble hadn't paid off and they then applied for a spouse visa to start their 5 years to ILR asap (UK immigration rules). That's how we then knew that these people had to apply from outside the UK as they were reporting to the forums that they were getting refused if they applied from inside the UK, because they had never been "granted  leave" (Limited Leave to Remain) in the UK - LLR is UK immigration rules and they only entered under the EEA Regs. As said, the EEA Regs and UK immigration rules are not interchangeable.

Many now reporting they have been granted a spouse visa when they returned home to apply and that their "fraud" hadn't affected that visa being granted.

In fact the UK brought in "centre of life" to the EEA Regs a few years ago to try to stop thos fraud while they waited for the ECJ. Those who abused the Singh Ruling before that CoL came in (by going to another EEA country for a few weeks: usually Ireland: and then entering the UK to avoid UK immigration rules) know the EU allows retrospective rules and that this centre of life proof will affect them too if they were not genuine Singh users. They will also know that an RC can become invalid.

It was also well know on the forums in recent years, that those who wanted to  use Singh for this "fraud" should not use Ireland anymore as they were delaying applications to help the UK, ready for when the ECJ finally replied to all the EEA countries on the Singh abuse. This delay meant that many of these third country nationals, who then finally got into the UK on a 6 month EU FP, could not have an RC and they had to leave.


Singh was also a favourite route back to an EEA country for third country national criminals, that that country had just deported straight from jail and banned.


Even the ECJ Metock Ruling in 2008 that then allowed third country nationals to enter the EEA and be family members too, is meant to be changed by the EU at some point. This also was never agreed to by the EU or the EEA countries and every EEA country wants this stopped. The EU moves slowly too.

In fact one EU council had to take another EU council to the European Court of Justice years ago, because they were slow and obstructive and the ECJ have only just ruled on that!


« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 03:47:23 PM by Sirius »


  • *
  • Posts: 3284

  • Liked: 278
  • Joined: Sep 2014
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2017, 06:57:39 PM »
Following on from the European Court of Justice stance on those who are using their Singh Ruling just to avoid the immigration rules of that EEA country, the Home Office staff guidelines published 25 Ocotober 2017.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/655492/Family-members-of-British-citizens-v3.0EXT.pdf


  • *
  • Posts: 13402

  • Liked: 4550
  • Joined: Sep 2010
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2017, 07:42:54 PM »
Following on from the European Court of Justice stance on those who are using their Singh Ruling just to avoid the immigration rules of that EEA country, the Home Office staff guidelines published 25 Ocotober 2017.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/655492/Family-members-of-British-citizens-v3.0EXT.pdf

Thanks Sirius! 

I'd really like to know what the restricted/sensitive parts say!  ;D
March 28th 2013-Moved to UK, husband on spouse visa.Oct 20th 2015-Applied by mail for FLR(M).Feb 1st 2016 FLR(M).March 7th 2018 ILR. YAY! March 21st NCS&JCAP appointment.


  • *
  • Posts: 3284

  • Liked: 278
  • Joined: Sep 2014
Re: UK EEA Regs changes, including changes to Singh
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2017, 10:55:34 AM »


I'd really like to know what the restricted/sensitive parts say!  ;D

 ;D I didn't read any of it. I fiqured this is only any good for those who can get British citizenship while the UK is still in the EU.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 11:00:39 AM by Sirius »


Sponsored Links





 

coloured_drab