Question for anyone

Hi everyone!

I am now at the hopeless point of ever finding a job here in Northern Ireland!  :\\\'( I have been looking in earnest since March when  my spousal visa came through and have only had one interview the entire time.  I honestly do not know what I am doing wrong.  I am considering going to a local career counselor to see if they can point me in the right direction but that costs money which is in short supply here.  My question is:

Do you think that a two year gap in your employment record is so much that you will never break back into your field?

I have sixteen years experience as a buyer, regional director of purchasing, and director level with hyatt hotels and universal studios florida.  I do not have a college degree as I started out at the bottom with hyatt and worked my way up through the ranks.  I have busted my a$£ to get where I am in my career and to think that I can not even get my foot in the door makes me cry.  I am so depressed and angry that my husband (poor man) hates to come at night.  But, I can not help it.  I am angry that I can not get anywhere with the employment scene here in NI.  I have gone to five recruiters and if I am ever in a position that I need to do any hiring (which I hope I will) I will never use any of them.  I have applied for positions that are a few notches down from my previous placements as I thought I was being realistic.  In purchasing, knowing the market really helps and since I am new to the market I felt that it was only fair that my expectations were realistic.   

We talked this weekend and I brought up the point that if something does not happen soon, then I will have no other choice than to go back to the states and jump start my career back there.  This could be the end of my marriage!  Thanks to a costly divorce, my husband does not make enough money to support both of us and we are in the hole every month.   I am scared, depressed and just not a happy  camper right now.  I hate to sound like a whiner and I am sorry If I do everyone, but I really need your opinion.  Is it because I am 43, or is it because I am a woman (in a male dominated field), or is it because I am american or last but not least dare I say it, is it my religion?   

I almost hate to post this, but as I have no friends over here, I need and appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.  Thanks for reading and any tips, advice, slaps in the head would be appreciated.  I did not do my homework checking on the job market which I always do, prior to moving over here and now I am having regrets.  Thanks again.

Rose

First, big hugs to you!   

I think the job situation was the one thing I hadn't really thought about before I moved over here.  I thought I'd just head straight into converting my US teaching qualification into a UK one and BANG! have a career.  When I got here though, I quickly discovered that the kids (at least in my area) are far different from what I'm used to and that I absolutely would not be comfortable teaching here.  So there went all of my professional qualfications.   

I did have an administrative/clerical background, so I've had to fall back on that.  I'm currently working part time (which I love) in a job that I'm way overqualified for.  And I hate it.  I love the paycheck.  But I hate the damn job.  I feel like a trained monkey most days and am actively looking for other employment.

I guess what I'm saying is that maybe you should look for a "gateway" job.  Just a job to get your foot in the door.  That's the one good thing about my job--I have some UK experience to put on my CV.   I totally understand how you're feeling and I can identify with your experiences--recruiters, applying for jobs a few steps down, etc.  Ultimately, though, I got so fed up that I just  had to take the first semi-decent job that came along.  So now, even though I don't like my job, at least I have some money coming in while I'm looking for something more professional (and believe me, I'm actively looking!).

As far as discrimination, I can't say for sure if you're not getting interviews because of your age (you're not old!) or because you're a woman.  And employers shouldn't really have an idea of your religion unless you have it on your CV or wear religious symbols everywhere.  I think it's sometimes just a matter of who you know or being in the right place at the right time. 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!

You probably need a CV clinic.  It's possible something's putting them off cuz you are not getting to the interview stage.

Also, I would suggest getting very much into the UK radius thing.  Expand your radius to include Manchester, London, etc.  Even if it means a bedsit for part of the week - it beats moving back stateside!!   Sort out the commute and logistics after you land something.  BUT that's just an opinion...

  And employers shouldn't really have an idea of your religion unless you have it on your CV or wear religious symbols everywhere. 

Sometimes, one's religion can be deduced by one's surname.  (Although this is not always accurate because of intermarriage.)

This also brings to mind another question: what is a normal commute for folks in the UK? The reason that I am asking is that I commute by subway to work in Manhattan about 1 1/2 hours each way.  My fiance, who lives in York, thinks it's very strange that I get up to go to work so early; he thinks that it is too much.  He drives to work in York,  and it's not very far at all. In reality, my commute is not unusual for a New Yorker; nobody here would care. In New York City, it is expected that people make long  commutes by train, bus, car, ferry.

If I choose to take a job that requires say, up to an hour ride on the train, plus an additional bus ride from the train station to wherever the office is, will I be the only person at the job doing this? Will everyone else have simple twenty minute drives from house door to office door? I imagine there might be lots of commuting in the London area, but what about northern England?  I can just imagine myself rushing into work, all disheveled and out of breath because of some train delay while everyone else is sitting quietly at their desks staring at me, having arrived at work a long time ago because they had hardly any traveling to do.

I just wanted to give you a few words of encouragement.  I was in a very similar situation when I moved here.  I had been using recruitment agencies and could not get a job.  I was about to leave, when I finally got a break.  Since then, I have moved up the ladder very quickly.

I would suggested that you apply directly to jobs where possible.  Recruitment agencies are not like in the US--they are absolutely appaling here!  They make lots of promises and just don't follow up.  I am not sure where your level/kind of job is advertised in NI, but I would, where possible apply directly.

I have suggested this on other posts before, but think about going public sector.  The money is not as great, but there is a real need/desire for people from the private sector in charities and government and the health services. 

I  Recruitment agencies are not like in the US--they are absolutely appaling here!  They make lots of promises and just don't follow up. 

Well, my experiences with some US agencies have been pretty appalling. Perhaps it just depends on which agency you go to, rather than being a US/UK thing. I've heard both good and bad reports on UK agencies, so it's probably an individual thing.  I've found that it helps to register at many different agencies.

I would think it would be helpful to use an agency for a first job in the UK, just to get your foot in the door, because they might be able to help with things like dress code, CV preparation, interview style  etc., things that might differ between the US and the UK. For example, perhaps what comes off as assertive and interested during a US interview could come off as  "loud American" to a UK employer.

Try again. I posted and managed to delete it.
First, I sympathise, but that is no fix, I know.

I have a couple of observations.

You were evidently very high up the ladder in US. That SHOULD impress. Maybe a prospective boss could see that as a threat if you are applying for a post that is lower than his and his is lower than yours was ? I have seen that happen. I don't know what to suggest other than to dumb down your CV to suit the position for which you are applying.

Next, I am with Kat. Apply directly to employers. Tomorrow I will interview a prospective sales engineer. He has a good honours degree, the right experience, an appropriate salary expectation, and the right contacts. The recruitment agency want 30% of his first years salary. If they insist, he will not get the job he wants.

General perceptions. If a director of a blue chip company came to me looking for an admin/buying/sales position that would ring alarm bell with me. Face to face, you could probably explain the circumstances. You need to get there though. What can I say ? Keep the application simple and appropriate to the post.

The recruitment agency want 30% of his first years salary.

Perhaps you are referring to a different type of agency than the kind I am thinking of ? The agencies that I have been to in the US have their fees paid by the employers. The person seeking a job does not pay a thing.  I have always been taught to steer clear of agencies that make the person looking for work pay a fee. Does the UK have the kind of agency where the employer pays the agency to find them employees?

Perhaps you are referring to a different type of agency than the kind I am thinking of ? The agencies that I have been to in the US have their fees paid by the employers. The person seeking a job does not pay a thing.  I have always been taught to steer clear of agencies that make the person looking for work pay a fee. Does the UK have the kind of agency where the employer pays the agency to find them employees?

No. I think you misunderstood my post.
If the prospective employee had to pay the fee it would not affect me.

I am interviewing the guy and might offer him employment. The recruitmant agency expect my company to pay them a one off fee equal to 30% if his first years salary.
If they insist, he will not get the job.

My point is that, from the employers point of view, recruitment agencies are a very costly option. That can't help an individuals case. IMHO

My point is that, from the employers point of view, recruitment agencies are a very costly option. That can't help an individuals case. IMHO

I think it depends on the employer. I think larger companies use employment agencies because they pay the agency to do the dirty work for them, weeding out employees so that the employer only has to bother picking among a few employees who are already highly qualified.     I am sure the employment agency fees are including in the HR budget. In the long run, it is more cost-effective to have an experienced agency help ensure that the right person was hired for the job, than to have a supervisor hire someone who doesn't work out.  (Not that the agency always makes perfect decisions, but picking the right person for the job is their specialty.)

I have always gotten my jobs in the US via employment agencies.
 The company that I currently work for only hires through employment agencies, unless it is an extremely high level executive position, where "somebody knows somebody." I suppose for a smaller business, paying a 30% commission to an agency is not worth it; however, a larger company  can set aside a portion of their budget just for that purpose.  I know that when a job becomes vacant here, it is filled very quickly, because the agency can immediately provide the company with a list of very qualified applicants. All the supervisor has to do is pick and choose.

Having been on both sides of the pond with agencies, and having worked for an employment agency once myself:

I've had good and bad experiences in both places... sign up with as many as you think possible, stick with the ones you feel good about.  Ask them loads of questions, they should be there to help you, with your CV, your approach, your appearance, etc.  Take as many part time, short term assignments to get a feel for things.

As far as Cascode's comment, I certainly know that when I was trying to place people, we were always open to negotiation... I actually don't recall having a candidate not get a job because the prospective employer wouldn't pay the commission.  You, as the employer, are paying the employment agency to do all the 'dirty' work, as it were, so you don't have to.  Hence a commission.  While 30% may be a bit high, it's terribly sad to think the one who loses is the guy needing and wanting the job.

Presumably most employers wouldn't list their vacancy with an agency if they weren't prepared to pay the fee. I think Elizabeth's advice is good - sign up with lots of agencies - some will be good, some will be bad.

I agree with Elizabeth and Britwife. Sign up with as many agencies as possible. I've gotten all of my jobs in the US via agencies; I've also signed up with agencies that never called me even once after the initial interview. I guess I just wansn't right for them. This also does not prevent you from looking for jobs directly, as well.

And erm, Cascode, now that the others have mentioned it, why do you have a vacancy listed with an agency if you aren't prepared to pay the agency the fee it  has earned for finding you someone to fill the vacancy? Does this mean that everybody who is referred to the job by the agency is automatically not going to get the job. Not very considerate of the job-seeker or the rep at the agency who is working on your account. Or are you hoping to hire the prospective employee anyway, and not pay the fee?  I know that the UK is not as litiginous as the US, but I have a feeling UK agencies have legal protection against that sort of thing, for their own survival.

All of my "great" jobs came from applying to temp agencies...two different agencies, on in UK one in USA.  Each time, the first job was a crap short-time tem clerical job that I was over-qualifiyed for.  The second jobs were "career" posts; one as PR and parlimentary monitoring for Universities Scotland (the UK one, obviously) the other as Marketing Coordinator to a "big-name" firm in downtown Seattle. 

Before I landed the jobs in Scotland, I cried to my DF over and over about the anguish and the pain of not having a proper job.  It took forever!!  I had more than enough qualification and expericence, I guess I was just not "hire-material".  The little insignificant thing on my CV that got me the first job was my American Sign Language.  My first post was for the Scotland Deaf Society, even though American and British sign are as different as English and Spanish.  Got my foot in the door at the agency, though, and after a one-month temp there, they got me my "real" job.

It sucks, I know.  But if you are willing to do something totaly out of your field, it may open a door...or a window.

And erm, Cascode, now that the others have mentioned it, why do you have a vacancy listed with an agency if you aren't prepared to pay the agency the fee it  has earned for finding you someone to fill the vacancy? Does this mean that everybody who is referred to the job by the agency is automatically not going to get the job. Not very considerate of the job-seeker or the rep at the agency who is working on your account. Or are you hoping to hire the prospective employee anyway, and not pay the fee?  I know that the UK is not as litiginous as the US, but I have a feeling UK agencies have legal protection against that sort of thing, for their own survival.

I remember that Cascode had posted something a couple a weeks ago about getting a cold call from a recruitment agency with a prospective employee. I'm not sure if that post is about the person he's interviewing tomorrow but it might be. I'm sure Cascode will pop on and clear it up for us.

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