Nationwide Self Certification Form Query

Hello All,
Have not posted here for a little while now.  But every so often something crops up that I need this amazing informative forum to help me on.

My husband is American and we moved here August 2015.   He works and lives in the UK and will eventually be here permanently as myself and the children are all British citizens. 
I was told by my US accountant last year that we did not need to file next year as no earnings for 2016 in US.

He has received a letter from Nationwide asking him to complete the International tax compliance regulations self certification form.
Its a little tricky as all the questions are a little contradicting.  I'm sure everyone experiences this.

Question 1:
Can you confirm that you are NOT a United States Citizen AND your ONLY country of residence for tax purposes is the United Kingdom?
Yes or No
If answered YES, provide supporting documentation.
If answered NO, please answer questions 2 and 3.

Question 2:
Are you a United States Citizen?
Yes or No

Question 3:
Other than the UK, please list all the countries and corresponding Tax Id Numbers where you are a resident for tax purposes?

So, immediately we are stuck on number one...... if you could please give me some advice it would be greatly appreciated.
And also, was my accountant correct about not filing next year?
Thank you.

A quick answer to your question:

Question 1 - No (if your husband is a US citizen. If he is not (sorry, you haven't specified), then a continuing tax liability to the US, whether any tax is due or not, would require a 'No' answer also.)

Question 2 - Yes (if your husband is a US citizen)

Question 3 - United States of America, and Tax ID Number is his Social Security number (which should also be his TIN for the US as is used on US tax returns).

He is an American Citizen, holds a US Passport and here on a Spousal Visa.

He is an American Citizen, holds a US Passport and here on a Spousal Visa.

Then question 1 is no, and, of course, question 2 is yes.

Again, since he is a US citizen, the US will always be a "country of residence for tax purposes" thanks to the unique US CBT (citizenship based taxation). Forms such as these are made by the institutions themselves and are meant to cover all situations (OECD CRS, EU Savings Directive, FATCA from the US, etc.). It's all compliance based (and a CYA for the institution) and are, at times, slightly confusing due to all the varying situations.

I can't comment on your 2016 query (I assume you mean for the US) as we have insufficient information, but if he had NO income for 2016, from anywhere in the world, then the CPA might be correct. If he had no US income, but income in the UK during 2016, then he may well have to file a US return for 2016.

If he had no US income, but income in the UK during 2016, then he may well have to file a US return for 2016.

For clarification on the statement above, see Publication 54.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p54.pdf

I was told by my US accountant last year that we did not need to file next year as no earnings for 2016 in US.

And also, was my accountant correct about not filing next year?

If your husband has some earned and/or unearned income from the UK for the period 1 Jan 2016 to 31 Dec 2016, then check Pub. 54 to see if he is above the minimum threshold for filing. He may also have an FBAR (FINCen 114) or 8938 filing (informational) obligation, amongst others.

Sadly, a US based CPA can often be wrong if they are not familiar with US filing requirements for those resident abroad. It happens all too frequently.

Thank you, after reading some info online I now realise that a lot people are being misinformed.
Thank you for all your help, once again UK Yankee helps me out with this crazy life of moving countries....lol
Much appreciated   

I'd answer the questions just like theOAP....however, I would not share my SSN just because someone asks. I would probably write an annoyed note on the form.

I would not share my SSN just because someone asks. I would probably write an annoyed note on the form.

From the topic, this seems to concern Nationwide Building Society. From the Nationwide site:

"General terms and conditions

We strongly advise you read all of the terms and conditions as you will be legally bound by them. Subject to any additional conditions for your account, the following conditions will apply."

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/~/media/MainSite/documents/products/savings/terms-and-conditions/P2797.pdf

"Tax Compliance Regulations

As part of this, HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) now shares information about a range of financial accounts and investments with participating tax authorities around the world. As such, all UK financial institutions – including Nationwide – are obligated to collect and report this information to the HMRC.

What information of mine will you share?

This will include your name, address, date of birth, non-UK tax identification numbers, account balances, plus any interest paid during the reporting period, which is usually the year to 31 December."

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/support/service/international-tax-compliance#xtab:twistyitem2-what-information

[All bold mine.]

I've always liked your spirit nun,......and I share your concern, but if a further letter from Nationwide arrives requesting the excluded information with a threat to, at best, close the account, or at worse, freeze the account, how would you handle it?

"36. Under normal circumstances, we may close the account by giving you at least 30 days’ notice. We may close your account immediately in exceptional circumstances, which might include a legal obligation to close the account...."

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/~/media/MainSite/documents/products/savings/terms-and-conditions/P2797.pdf

Edit: although the US/UK IGA might avoid this. /Edit

Many of us fear a 'privacy breach' somewhere between the Nationwide mainframe, the occasional workers 'thumb drive', the third party supplier in India tasked with compiling a list of US Persons, HMRC, the US Treasury, and any other US organisation the US Treasury wishes to share the information with.

OR, maybe Nationwide will just laugh and send only your name and date of birth to HMRC.     At least it's not Switzerland, where a completed and filed FBAR must be shown yearly to any one of the three banks that now are the only ones allowing US citizens as account holders (albeit with limited financial facilities and extra charges).

Oh well,..... 

 

Sure, I understand......I'm just not in the habit of sharing my SSN or my NI number with third parties whatever they say. I'd probably try a few places and see if I could do business without giving my SSN.

I'd probably try a few places and see if I could do business without giving my SSN.

There's this gent named Guido that hangs out in the car park next to the pub. Give him as much as you like and he guarantees a 15% return (once the "shipment comes in"; whatever that means). Doesn't require a contract, terms and conditions, SSN, or NI. You want I should give him your name?


****Relax GCHQ/NSA. There really isn't a Guido, at least at the pub I go to.       There is this guy who claims to be the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, but that's another story.

Sure, I understand......I'm just not in the habit of sharing my SSN or my NI number with third parties whatever they say. I'd probably try a few places and see if I could do business without giving my SSN.

I think all UK reputable banks and building societies will be complying with FATCA these days. Our UK bank earlier this year were a little more specific than simply asking for our SSN's, and provided a W-9 for us to complete. (We are both US citizens)

https://www.irs.gov/uac/about-form-w9

Sure, you can refuse to have the bank report any interest to the IRS but they may refuse to have you as a customer.