Another misinformed claim to citizenship news article

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/05/man-told-to-take-citizenship-test-despite-living-entire-life-in-uk

Second one this week!


UKC married to USC 2012.
USC is on FLR(M) - 1 year to go to ILR

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a mess!

Really disappointing to see the Guardian reporting this and the last article when neither person has any legitimate claim at all!  I feel sorry for both people but they just haven't done their homework!


UKC married to USC 2012.
USC is on FLR(M) - 1 year to go to ILR

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really disappointing to see the Guardian reporting this and the last article when neither person has any legitimate claim at all!  I feel sorry for both people but they just haven't done their homework!

That's a bit harsh on the German guy. What homework should he have done as a newborn baby when his parents chose not to register him as British? Why should he have questioned his right to live in the country where he was born and lived all his life? Not to mention that he actually does have a claim to British citizenship because he was born after 1 January 1983 to parents who were settled in the UK. His problem is that the Home Office is demanding proof of their settled status, which he is having trouble supplying. From the sound of it, the HO is being unreasonable. Shocking, of course.

Ah fair enough. I guess I didn't do enough homework and posted in haste! 


UKC married to USC 2012.
USC is on FLR(M) - 1 year to go to ILR

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is portent though of the confusion to come. Poor planning.

Ah fair enough. I guess I didn't do enough homework and posted in haste! 

Don't worry, you were correct.  EU law is complicated and changes all the time.

I don't imagine there is any country that will give out a first passport without proof that they are a citizen.

What homework should he have done as a newborn baby when his parents chose not to register him as British?

When he applied fora British passport at age 32, he should have checked to see if he was British and followed the guidance of documents that he needed to provide as proof of citizenship for his first passport.

As for what his parents did or didn't do, that's nothing to do with him.
Many EEA citizens never thought the UK would leave the EU and therefore their son (and they) could have held the EU's "PR" and could have just stayed in the UK. As long as they didn't leave the UK for 2 years, they kept their PR. But PR is EU laws and EU laws will end on a Brexit. The article did say that Brexit is why he wanted a British passport.

Why should he have questioned his right to live in the country where he was born and lived all his life?

Because being born in the UK does not mean they are British. Nor does living in the UK mean you are legally in the UK, even if you are an EEA citizen.
 

Not to mention that he actually does have a claim to British citizenship because he was born after 1 January 1983 to parents who were settled in the UK.

That is UK immigration laws. Before the 1 January 1983, those born in the UK were born British. As you say, he was born "after" the 1 January 1983, therefore there is no claim to citizenship from that.

"Settled" under EU law (EU law is what he and he parents used to be in the UK) changes all the time. They didn't have UK "visas".

 

His problem is that the Home Office is demanding proof of their settled status, which he is having trouble supplying. From the sound of it, the HO is being unreasonable. Shocking, of course.

Actually the EU is the one who says they they have to prove their status in that EEA country. If they aren't legal under EU laws, then the EU says they can be removed (deported) and banned.

At the time he was born, IF his parents can prove they were an EEA citizen legally working in the UK, then he was born British. It seems his parents either weren't doing that at the the time of his birth or they can't prove that. They won't take their word for it for obvious reasons.

I'm not 100% sure that self employment was allowed back then (the article said his father was SE) so that might be why the paper says he needs proof that his mother was working in the UK when he was born in the UK, for him to claim British citizenship from birth? An EEA citizen who was working in the UK back then, was classed as "settled".

Later the EU brought in free movement and it's Directives of 'must be a "qualified person" all the time to be exercising treaty rights of free movement in another country, to then have a "right to reside" in that country.

Children born in the UK to parents who are just QPs, does not make that child born British. They take the citizenship of their parents. An EEA citizen who is a QP is not "settled".

An EEA citizen continuously execcising treaty rights for 5 years automatically get PR in that EEA country. PR is "settled". EU laws end at PR and have nothing to do with citizenship of that country.

If they held PR (settled) when their child was born in the UK, then their child was born British. Like all first applications for a British passport, they too have to prove theor child was born a British citizen, by providing the evidence that the parents have obtained PR.


The parents then follow the laws of that EEA country if they want citizenship. 5 years as a QP for automatic PR and then 1 year for British citizenship, whereas I believe it is 5 years as a QP and them a further 3 years (total 8 years) for German citizenship.


Therefore following the EU rules, he must either:-

show proof one of his parents were working in the UK under EU rules when he was born years ago,

OR

 he has automatically got PR under EU rules, he can apply for his DCPR and then apply for British citizeneship.


As EU laws stop at PR, EEA citizens have to do everything and pay the same fee for BC as all those who used UK immigration rules (visas). That amount of that UK fee comes as a shock to those who haven't used UK visas to be in the UK and have been in the UK for free up to that point.

Second one this week!

Lots every week if you look on the other fourms. Some even have a sticky for those refused British citizenship to post on, to avoid all the new threads.

You don't see it on here as uk-yankee posters are very good at making sure people are honest with all their visa applications and in checking they have the documents they are meant to provide



Huge numbers of posts since the Brexit vote on the EEA forums from those EEA citizens who are not legally in the UK and are now worried they will have to leave.

Thanks for explaining it, I've certainly learned a few things and nice to know that in a round about way, I was right originally!


UKC married to USC 2012.
USC is on FLR(M) - 1 year to go to ILR

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, FFS, Sirius, give the guy a break. You're always so harsh on people. I certainly would never condone anyone trying to skirt the rules or those who have a misguided sense of entitlement to British residency or citizenship, but come on. When this guy was born, his parents had been working in the UK for ten years. What reason would he possibly have to think that he didn't have a claim to citizenship? And he does have a claim, your sophistry notwithstanding. He needs to show that his parents were settled and working here at the time of his birth, which I imagine he will manage to do eventually. If there's any blame to be laid here, it's on the parents.

Oh, FFS, Sirius, give the guy a break. You're always so harsh on people.

Giving someone the facts of what is needed for PR or to claim citizenship? Or correcting you?

I certainly would never condone anyone trying to skirt the rules

and he tried "to skirt the rules" and didn't make it.

Do you seriously think your country (or any country) would hand out a first passport without the proof required to show they are a citizen? Or a visa or RC (EU rules) without the proof required for those? If they just took someones word for it then everyone would apply.

but come on. When this guy was born, his parents had been working in the UK for ten years. What reason would he possibly have to think that he didn't have a claim to citizenship?

Because, as I pointed out above, being born in the UK doesn't give British citizenship. It's the same in his own country, Germany, just being born in Germany doesn't give German citizenship and he will know that.

And he does have a claim, your sophistry notwithstanding.

As I pointed out. Two routes, one with the proof required to show his mother was in work in the UK when he was born 32 years ago
OR
he can prove he has the EU's PR, has held it for at least 1 year and then apply for BC.

It's all listed on the government sites which documents are needed for various visas and EU rules.

As often pointed out on here, it is a tick box exercise.

He needs to show that his parents were settled and working here at the time of his birth, which I imagine he will manage to do eventually. If there's any blame to be laid here, it's on the parents.

At least you understand now that it isn't the fault of the HO as you originally claimed. Although his parents fault? Not his fault for not providing the correct documents for his first British passport? He is an adult and could have read the guidance.

His parents couldn't possibly have known 32 years ago how new EU treaties would change over the years for EEA citizens or what they were going to change to. Nor about a Brexit.

Thanks for explaining it, I've certainly learned a few things and nice to know that in a round about way, I was right originally!

You were right.