Hello
Guest

Sponsored Links


Topic: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare  (Read 16042 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

  • *
  • Posts: 6585

  • Liked: 1891
  • Joined: Sep 2015
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #120 on: May 24, 2017, 10:26:30 AM »
Also surprised to hear it described as nasty.  Had to read back and didn't see anything in particular. 


  • *
  • Posts: 308

  • US citizen & UK citizen partner of 12 yrs
    • Portable Weirdness
  • Liked: 60
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: North Carolina USA
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #121 on: May 28, 2017, 02:48:06 PM »
I frequent another forum that has a lot of Americans and today there was a post from a guy who has advanced throat cancer.  Apparently, he thought he had insurance until the bills started rolling in and it's not enough. His work set up a go fund me page, I guess as an alternative to providing proper insurance.  He was trying to act like he was just posting some news but it was obvious he was scrambling to raise money so he can live.

WTF!  What is wrong with America?  This poor guy was scrabbling around to raise 10k so he can have cancer treatment and not even mentioning his two small kids .   He was already talking about himself in the past tense. 

I can't see how Americans can put up with it.

This is one of the things that makes both of us cringe at entirely for-profit medicine. My better half had to have emergency double hernia surgery last June (another thing that pushed our plans back a bit). In spite of having what's generally considered good insurance through his work, we still had to shell out around $8k in a host of things that are part of the procedure that insurance wouldn't cover.

Testimony to the opiod problem over here was a doctor that told him he shouldn't have a surgery that's so routine a robot does it and you're home the same day because "plenty of people manage very well on pain management meds". He blew off the fact that Miles has a very physical job and that pain meds would only address pain, not keep the problem from getting worse until one day he'd have to have the surgery any way and just told him to get another job. Have looked into whether any of the hospital's shareholders also have stakes in pharmaceutical companies that produce relevant products.

Some of the people that hear about this just fall back to "well, it your fault for not having better insurance/having a job with better insurance/having more money in the bank". And I think that's where a lot of the disconnect comes from. Especially here in the south, the going school of thought for decades has been "if you can't handle whatever happens it's your fault being too irresponsible to do whatever it takes to be prepared", instead of "maybe the insurance industry should actually do what it's paid for" or "maybe some health care costs are too big for anyone to handle".

It's a mentality that's been groomed by a type of predatory "only the strong survive" capitalism-turned social norm. I know so many amazingly dedicated medical professionals that are sick to death of dealing with it.  I also know that it costs money to make things happen. But there's got to be a different attitude toward health care than just prioritizing the bottom line and putting shareholders before sick people.
"Human" is a noun. "Black", "White", "Asian", "Latino", "Indigenous", "Male", "Female", "GLBT", "Straight", "Christian", "Jewish", "Muslim", "Buddhist", "Hindu", "Pagan", "Conservative", "Liberal", are all adjectives.


  • *
  • Posts: 308

  • US citizen & UK citizen partner of 12 yrs
    • Portable Weirdness
  • Liked: 60
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: North Carolina USA
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #122 on: May 28, 2017, 02:58:03 PM »
I definitely think the US is way behind the game with no universal healthcare.  No doubt.

BUT, there are numerous campaigns in my area to send people TO the US for treatment they can't get on the NHS.

Basically both systems are flawed and I haven't a clue on how either should be fixed!

Agreed, and I do think greed is a messy part of it as much as just sheer complexity is. Just speaking for myself, I'd rather deal with a system where a broken ankle or routine pneumonia won't ruin me for the next 10-20 years because the hospital will turn me over to a collections agency if I can't pay for the ER/A & E visit up front and I need private insurance for anything big than not being able to afford basic treatment and private insurance that can find excuses to not cover anything.
"Human" is a noun. "Black", "White", "Asian", "Latino", "Indigenous", "Male", "Female", "GLBT", "Straight", "Christian", "Jewish", "Muslim", "Buddhist", "Hindu", "Pagan", "Conservative", "Liberal", are all adjectives.


  • *
  • Posts: 205

  • Liked: 60
  • Joined: May 2017
  • Location: Glasgow
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #123 on: May 28, 2017, 03:35:43 PM »
In spite of having what's generally considered good insurance through his work, we still had to shell out around $8k in a host of things that are part of the procedure that insurance wouldn't cover.

Several years ago I was in a very serious car crash, despite having "good" insurance through my employer, I still had to pay $6,000 out of pocket. And then when I got a settlement from the other driver, I had to reimburse my health insurance company the ~$30k they spent on my claims! The healthcare system is one thing I will NOT miss about the good ol' US of A.


  • *
  • Posts: 17754

  • Liked: 6110
  • Joined: Sep 2010
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #124 on: May 28, 2017, 03:55:27 PM »
And then when I got a settlement from the other driver, I had to reimburse my health insurance company the ~$30k they spent on my claims! The healthcare system is one thing I will NOT miss about the good ol' US of A.

I know that is the way it works, but I find it staggeringly unfair!  >:(


  • *
  • Posts: 6734

  • Liked: 1260
  • Joined: Oct 2012
  • Location: Berkshire
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #125 on: May 28, 2017, 04:28:51 PM »
In spite of having what's generally considered good insurance through his work, we still had to shell out around $8k in a host of things that are part of the procedure that insurance wouldn't cover.


I was literally disgusted the other day when I commented on a link posted by a celebrity I follow on Facebook that mentioned how the new healthcare bill will leave 23 million more people uninsured etc. Somebody replied to it with, and I s**t you not, "Or get a job and buy health insurance yourself". I was like.....ARE. YOU. KIDDING. ME? I felt like I had too much and not enough words for him all at the same time...but at the end of the day, I knew regardless of what I said it wouldn't make a difference because he just views this so black and white. He views the world as either "You have a job and work and in the end you'll be taken care of because surely  hard working individual won't ever be forgotten about or you are forgotten about because you aren't trying hard enough/don't care enough to put any effort in." It was just shocking really that somebody had the testicular fortitude to say "just get a job and pay for healthcare" as if these people weren't already doing it because it's just so unimaginable that they would be. What you said reminded me of it because, in this guy's eyes, your husband just isn't working a good enough job. Surely if he just worked harder/tried harder/cared more he could work for a place that would afford him the correct healthcare to not worry about this - which is just such a negative and horrible way to think and is very clearly false.
My, how time flies....

* Married in the US and applied for first spousal visa August 2013
* Moved to the UK on said visa October 2013
* FLR(M) applied for  May 2016. Biometrics requested June 2016. Approval given July 2016.
* ILR applied for January 2019 (using priority processing). Approved February 2019.
* Citizenship applied for May  2019
* Citizenship approved on July 4th 2019
* Ceremony conducted on August 28th 2019

'Mommy, Wow! I'm a legit Brit now!'


  • *
  • Posts: 308

  • US citizen & UK citizen partner of 12 yrs
    • Portable Weirdness
  • Liked: 60
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: North Carolina USA
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #126 on: May 28, 2017, 05:47:26 PM »
Several years ago I was in a very serious car crash, despite having "good" insurance through my employer, I still had to pay $6,000 out of pocket. And then when I got a settlement from the other driver, I had to reimburse my health insurance company the ~$30k they spent on my claims! The healthcare system is one thing I will NOT miss about the good ol' US of A.

This is the thing that trips me out the most I think - people can present it as if lack of coverage is merely people being irresponsible and having poor priorities. But crazy rates aside, even expensive policies can finagle ways to pick the coverage to death or keep from having to pay out on what you've been paying for for years.
"Human" is a noun. "Black", "White", "Asian", "Latino", "Indigenous", "Male", "Female", "GLBT", "Straight", "Christian", "Jewish", "Muslim", "Buddhist", "Hindu", "Pagan", "Conservative", "Liberal", are all adjectives.


  • *
  • Posts: 17754

  • Liked: 6110
  • Joined: Sep 2010
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #127 on: May 28, 2017, 05:57:39 PM »
This is the thing that trips me out the most I think - people can present it as if lack of coverage is merely people being irresponsible and having poor priorities. But crazy rates aside, even expensive policies can finagle ways to pick the coverage to death or keep from having to pay out on what you've been paying for for years.

Exactly! They do their very best to deny, deny, deny. I'm sure they have whole teams of people whose job it is to say no all day long....

It's a huge racket.  >:(


Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #128 on: May 28, 2017, 07:07:50 PM »
Exactly! They do their very best to deny, deny, deny. I'm sure they have whole teams of people whose job it is to say no all day long....

It's a huge racket.  >:(

A bit like UKVI then ;-)


  • *
  • Posts: 17754

  • Liked: 6110
  • Joined: Sep 2010
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #129 on: May 28, 2017, 07:15:31 PM »
A bit like UKVI then ;-)

 Ha!  ;D


  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 26872

  • Liked: 3595
  • Joined: Jan 2007
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #130 on: May 28, 2017, 07:23:48 PM »
A bit like UKVI then ;-)

Lol :P.

It may seem like that, but in fact, UKVI say YES to 95-98% of visa applications made in the US :).


Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #131 on: May 28, 2017, 07:27:26 PM »
It may seem like that, but in fact, UKVI say YES to 95-98% of visa applications made in the US :).

Yeah, I know, although seeing how much they charge I stand by the racket comment


  • *
  • Posts: 275

  • Liked: 6
  • Joined: Dec 2016
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #132 on: May 28, 2017, 07:44:17 PM »
Several years ago I was in a very serious car crash, despite having "good" insurance through my employer, I still had to pay $6,000 out of pocket. And then when I got a settlement from the other driver, I had to reimburse my health insurance company the ~$30k they spent on my claims! The healthcare system is one thing I will NOT miss about the good ol' US of A.
So some else causes an accident and that person is liable for your medical bills.

The insurance advances the costs cause they'll cover you if the other guy pays what he owes or not.

Then the other guy pays the cost of your medical bills to the party that paid your medical bills. Why does that seem weird?

You don't get free money for being the victim in an accident. If we didn't do it that way then the other guy would have paid nothing towards your healthcare despite being the cause, and your health insurance would cost infinitely more. That's how insurance works. Why would a system where either people are not held responsible for the harm they cause, or where people get a reward over and above their damages when they're the victim in an accident, why would either of those make sense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


  • *
  • Posts: 275

  • Liked: 6
  • Joined: Dec 2016
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #133 on: May 28, 2017, 07:48:04 PM »
Exactly! They do their very best to deny, deny, deny. I'm sure they have whole teams of people whose job it is to say no all day long....

It's a huge racket.  >:(
Sue them. They'll usually pay. If they don't then there's either a good reason or something bigger going on. Either way, I'd sue them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


  • *
  • Posts: 275

  • Liked: 6
  • Joined: Dec 2016
Re: Americans begging for money to pay for basic healthcare
« Reply #134 on: May 28, 2017, 08:28:38 PM »
I was literally disgusted the other day when I commented on a link posted by a celebrity I follow on Facebook that mentioned how the new healthcare bill will leave 23 million more people uninsured etc. Somebody replied to it with, and I s**t you not, "Or get a job and buy health insurance yourself". I was like.....ARE. YOU. KIDDING. ME? I felt like I had too much and not enough words for him all at the same time...but at the end of the day, I knew regardless of what I said it wouldn't make a difference because he just views this so black and white. He views the world as either "You have a job and work and in the end you'll be taken care of because surely  hard working individual won't ever be forgotten about or you are forgotten about because you aren't trying hard enough/don't care enough to put any effort in." It was just shocking really that somebody had the testicular fortitude to say "just get a job and pay for healthcare" as if these people weren't already doing it because it's just so unimaginable that they would be. What you said reminded me of it because, in this guy's eyes, your husband just isn't working a good enough job. Surely if he just worked harder/tried harder/cared more he could work for a place that would afford him the correct healthcare to not worry about this - which is just such a negative and horrible way to think and is very clearly false.

Now I don't agree with whoever made the statement you're mad about, but let me point out a few facts.

We have 4.something percent unemployment among job seekers. People that want a job with benefits can mostly get one fairly quick without a lot of trouble.

On the other hand, we have a high number of people who have stopped looking for work. Labor participation rate is always a tricky thing cause you don't know who is a stay at home spouse or retired because they want to be rather than can't get viable work. But, the numbers are high enough that we know there is a real problem.

Then there's public benefit programs that don't get people help and force them off assistance in a finite time. Certainly nothing close to all people taking assistance are lazy or any sort of thing like that, but the design of too many assistance programs enables some to give up and decide to just live like that forever.

I personally do not like this healthcare bill at all, but let's at least understand it.

On the CBO grading, you should understand that the baseline they used is messed up. They missed the guess on how many people would get coverage under Obamacare by 7-9million. Yet they're now using a baseline that says those extra people are insured when they're really not.

From that false starting point, they then say how many people would be covered if all states who refused the Medicaid expansion now accepted it. Keep in mind there was a transition bonus for states that took it to cover half the costs for a couple years. That's gone now. Other states didn't accept it because they didn't want to be stuck with the bill after that initial money went away. The idea that they'd reverse that decision, when it is even more against their interests to do so, is just ludicrous.

Then they guessed how many more people would get insurance due to the individual mandate. Which is already in force, so logically it is zero additional people, but they came up with millions without any support for why.

They also assume cost will not significantly rise above current levels and choice will exist where they already don't. So that the currently insured people will stay insured.

All of that is in their methodology. So this theoretical number of people that would be insured at an arbitrary point in the future is absolutely unquestionably wrong based on provable facts that already exist today. Yet when they take an equally errant guess at how many will be insured under the new bill and subtract it from their fictional number, we are supposed to put some weight to that? The math is just wrong, provably so, and not in a small way.

In reality, the number insured likely won't change much. The proposed reforms should stabilize or slightly reduce costs for most people. Some may have to pay more, rather than it becoming unaffordable for all, but that's not really clear cause several of the earlier high risk pools had the same or lower rates than standard plans. It all depends on how much care gets used versus how much is paid into the pot. The thing doesn't repeal Obamacare at all. It puts some temporary fixes in place so modified Obamacare can live on longer, but eventually it'll fail cause it's a stupid system, and then the only alternative will likely be single-payer similar to NHS, which is what Obama wanted in the first place.

And by the way, we're counting people on Medicaid as covered. You might want to look at the few dozen studies that exist saying health outcomes for people on Medicaid are the same or worse than uninsured people. Not one study saying Medicaid is beneficial. And where Medicaid was expanded, often the number of newly eligible people who signed up was low, but they're not penalized. Just FYI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sponsored Links





 

coloured_drab