American previously refused entry clearance (over a decade ago)

Nope...not for that -  they can only give you a 10-year ban if they CAUGHT you using deception to enter the UK at the time of the trip. If you are honest in the application and disclose all the refusals in the past, and include paperwork, they will see you are not trying to hide anything and therefore will not think you are trying to use deception.

However, if you deliberately didn't mention your refusals because you thought it would make you look bad, and then they found out that you were hiding them, THAT could lead to a ban.

Like KFDancer said, you're overthinking this. Just be completely honest in the application, provide the documents to show you are a genuine visitor, and you will likely get the visa.

Your safest option which will give you the best chance of being able to enter the UK in future is to apply for a visitor visa in advance.

Your riskiest option is to try to fly to the UK without a visa - chances are you will find yourself right back in that interrogation room and probably put on the next plane back to the US.

I get what everyone is saying, but there's a big difference between the 'should happen's and 'what will happen's. When I was sent back from Gatwick my interrogator finally believed me and felt sorry for the situation. She gave me detailed advice on how to fix my next application so it would be accepted and it still didn't go through. I've tried honesty with British immigration many times before and they always think I'm lying anyways. All I want is to sit down with a human being and explain it so they can finally understand but apparently that costs $1000 I don't have so it sounds like I either risk it with applying for the visa, risk it by not applying for the visa and fly to the UK directly or via Ireland, or just do what I've done the past 8 years and consider my 5 days in Wales as my final closure and never try this ordeal again.

I'm just saying as respectfully as possible that it all sounds so simple to you because you didn't live it. I appreciate the advice, but it all comes from the perspective of people who weren't locked in a room for hours and sobbed through multiple interrogations until I finally cried myself to sleep. All because the people organizing my visa got everyone else's right except mine.

True, but that could turn into another never-ending episode of visa denials except now my husband would be dragged into the situation as well because he would have to change/cancel his travel plans (and when I tried to apply for the visitor visa in 2007 I was required to already have a plane ticket booked. I mean... wtf do they expect people to do with those tickets once they deny the visa?)

It has never been a requirement to have a plane ticket booked when you apply for a visa. In fact, UKVI specifically advise that you should NOT book any travel until after the visa has been approved, in case it is delayed or refused and you cannot travel.

Which scenario would be better for you and your husband:

- you both book flights to the UK. You travel there and he is let into the UK with no issues, but you are detained, questioned and sent back to the US. You have lost all that money on the plane ticket and your husband is stuck in the UK without you.

or

- you apply for a visitor visa in advance, the visa is granted and you and your husband book plane tickets to the UK. You fly to the UK, get a couple of questions at immigration, you are both stamped in and you can enjoy your vacation together.

or

- you apply for a visitor visa in advance, the visa is refused, meaning you can't go to the UK. Your husband can then decide whether or not he wants to travel to the UK without you or if neither of you will go. You lose no money, other than the cost of the visa application.

Honestly, though, I don't see any reason why a visitor visa should be refused if you apply in advance. However, I see several reasons why you could be refused entry if you travel without a visa.

Honestly, though, I don't see any reason why a visitor visa should be refused if you apply in advance. However, I see several reasons why you could be refused entry if you travel without a visa.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I just don't trust that UK immigration will get it right this time when they failed me 5 others no matter how transparent I tried to be. The whole thing is a headache of monumental proportions and now I'm thinking I'm better off not going at all.

I suppose the way that you need to think of it is that either way you have to deal with UK immigration - you are either applying in advance and getting a yes/no answer before you travel, or you are applying at the the border when you get off the plane. You technically apply for a visa in either scenario, the only difference is that by applying in advance you avoid the worries of being turned away and/or interrogated after a long flight, which seems to be your main concern.

Even if you don't trust UK immigration (and I understand that you are scarred by previous experiences), unfortunately you do have to deal with them in either eventuality. Wouldn't it be better to apply in advance, and know whether there is an issue or not, rather than trying to wing it and potentially end up in a horrible situation and out of pocket?

Also, once you have an issued visitor visa, it may make you feel more confident applying for visas in the future.

As the others have said, I can't see why you would be refused, but if there is something, isn't it better to know in advance?

She gave me detailed advice on how to fix my next application so it would be accepted and it still didn't go through.

What was the reason given for the refusal?

All I want is to sit down with a human being and explain it so they can finally understand but apparently that costs $1000 I don't have so it sounds like I either risk it with applying for the visa, risk it by not applying for the visa and fly to the UK directly or via Ireland, or just do what I've done the past 8 years and consider my 5 days in Wales as my final closure and never try this ordeal again.

Actually, you can't apply in person if you have any previous visa refusals anyway, since they cannot make a 24-hour decision on the application, due to having to look into the reasons for the refusals.

Also, it's not about explaining - UKVI will not take into account your personal feelings... all that matters is the PAPERWORK you provide to prove you meet all the requirements. Their decision is not personal, it's about ticking the boxes.

You risk more by not applying for the visa than by applying for it. You should NOT be considering trying to fly to the UK without a visa, as that could make things much, much worse for you.

Your options really should be between:

- apply for the visa in advance
or
- don't attempt to visit to the UK at all

I know I sound like a broken record, but I just don't trust that UK immigration will get it right this time when they failed me 5 others no matter how transparent I tried to be. The whole thing is a headache of monumental proportions and now I'm thinking I'm better off not going at all.

As above, what were the actual reasons given for the refusals?

UK visas are tick-box visas - it's about showing you meet each requirement, and backing it up with paperwork.

Usually if you get a refusal, you just need to address the reasons for refusal, include the extra required paperwork and apply again.

I suppose the way that you need to think of it is that either way you have to deal with UK immigration - you are either applying in advance and getting a yes/no answer before you travel, or you are applying at the the border when you get off the plane. You technically apply for a visa in either scenario, the only difference is that by applying in advance you avoid the worries of being turned away and/or interrogated after a long flight, which seems to be your main concern.

Even if you don't trust UK immigration (and I understand that you are scarred by previous experiences), unfortunately you do have to deal with them in either eventuality. Wouldn't it be better to apply in advance, and know whether there is an issue or not, rather than trying to wing it and potentially end up in a horrible situation and out of pocket?

Also, once you have an issued visitor visa, it may make you feel more confident applying for visas in the future.

As the others have said, I can't see why you would be refused, but if there is something, isn't it better to know in advance?

I know what you're saying. It all sounds so clear cut when you say it like that. The thing is right now it's sort of like Schrödinger's cat. I suffered PTSD from what happened for years and the whole uncertainty of the visa process has haunted me through each of the 8 other countries I've subsequently visited. They already (and always have) considered me a liar and without a proper channel to explain my application in person I don't see any likelihood of it being approved (especially if I admit that I entered through Dublin). Just feels like no matter what I do it will never be good enough for British immigration.

What was the reason given for the refusal?

They kept saying they could not verify the charity status of the church I was volunteering with. As the rest of the Americans who were on my team got assigned to different churches, I'm not sure why they didn't just assign me to one of the others but there you go.

After the phone interview they also said I was trying to circumvent the system by not applying for a student visa because of my blunder at guessing how many hours I would receive training.

The 5th visa they basically said I was lying then and I had been telling the truth during my phone interview because they asked if I was nervous or unsure and I said no (again, how can I say yes to that and it not look worse? It was the nail in the coffin they used to justify every visa denial after that interview).

If you look at the stats under ksand's user name you'll see that she's not just rocked up here on UK Yankee today and started dishing out advice.

She's had nearly 15,000 posts and has been a member of this forum for over 10 years.  She has assisted literally THOUSANDS of people in getting their visas - often times from people who have paid out hundreds/thousands of dollars/pounds to "lawyers" to assist in their applications.  They don't get any better than her.  Believe it or not, your situation isn't that unusual (it's rather frequent that people find their way here after a refusal or two.  Granted five is an impressive number.   )

If you genuinely think you don't stand a chance at being granted a visa, don't apply and just keep your travel plans outside of the UK.  We think you'll be fine if you provide the necessary paperwork.  And we'll help you get it right.

They kept saying they could not verify the charity status of the church I was volunteering with. As the rest of the Americans who were on my team got assigned to different churches, I'm not sure why they didn't just assign me to one of the others but there you go.

In that case, it wasn't your fault the visa was refused and it should not directly affect you. Basically, you should not have kept trying to reapply for the visa, because it was always going to be refused each time - it was the church's charity status that caused the refusal, not you.

The other people's visas were all approved because their churches statuses obviously checked out. It's also the organisation's fault for giving you bad advice and not assigning you to a different church instead... if they had, your second application would probably have been approved.

After the phone interview they also said I was trying to circumvent the system by not applying for a student visa because of my blunder at guessing how many hours I would receive training.

But, that was a simple mistake on your part. If you just explain that in a cover letter, it should not affect future visa applications.

Unless, of course they explicitly mentioned 'using deception' in the refusal paperwork and issued you with a ban at that time.

The 5th visa they basically said I was lying then and I had been telling the truth during my phone interview because they asked if I was nervous or unsure and I said no (again, how can I say yes to that and it not look worse? It was the nail in the coffin they used to justify every visa denial after that interview).

Okay, here's what I would advise you to do (as someone who has been advising on visa applications here on the forum for 10 year and has helped hundreds of people successfully apply for visas):

- DO NOT consider flying to the UK without a visa (that's about the worst possible thing you could do in your situation)

- Seriously think about how important this trip is to you - are you willing to go through the application process again, even if you risk a refusal, for the possibility of going back to the UK?

- If you decide that you are, then apply for a visitor visa in advance. Be completely honest about all your refusals, include all the paperwork from them, and include plenty of evidence of your finances and your ties to the US

- Also include a letter of explanation, addressing each visa refusal and explaining why you did and said what you did. Make it clear that you were young and scared and weren't aware of what you needed to do.

- If you aren't willing to go through the application process, then just leave it. Don't try to go back to the UK again, and just leave your history with the UK in the past.

I am no expert but this really is a no brainer, either apply for the visitor visa or don't go.

In that case, it wasn't your fault the visa was refused and it should not directly affect you. Basically, you should not have kept trying to reapply for the visa, because it was always going to be refused each time - it was the church's charity status that caused the refusal, not you.

The other people's visas were all approved because their churches statuses obviously checked out. It's also the organisation's fault for giving you bad advice and not assigning you to a different church instead... if they had, your second application would probably have been approved.

But, that was a simple mistake on your part. If you just explain that in a cover letter, it should not affect future visa applications.

Unless, of course they explicitly mentioned 'using deception' in the refusal paperwork and issued you with a ban at that time.

Okay, here's what I would advise you to do (as someone who has been advising on visa applications here on the forum for 10 year and has helped hundreds of people successfully apply for visas):

- DO NOT consider flying to the UK without a visa (that's about the worst possible thing you could do in your situation)

- Seriously think about how important this trip is to you - are you willing to go through the application process again, even if you risk a refusal, for the possibility of going back to the UK?

- If you decide that you are, then apply for a visitor visa in advance. Be completely honest about all your refusals, include all the paperwork from them, and include plenty of evidence of your finances and your ties to the US

- Also include a letter of explanation, addressing each visa refusal and explaining why you did and said what you did. Make it clear that you were young and scared and weren't aware of what you needed to do.

- If you aren't willing to go through the application process, then just leave it. Don't try to go back to the UK again, and just leave your history with the UK in the past.

Thank you for all the advice. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful and I know you have a lot of experience in this which makes me wish I'd looked on here years ago. I did explain to them the mistake with the training hours and the organization not knowing what they were doing with the church charity status but it didn't seem to make a difference. It's been so long since the 5th visa denial now and I didn't even want to do it but my mother forced me because she thought it could work out. I don't remember if they wrote 'used deception' or it was just the general tone but I don't remember anything specific about issuing a ban that's why it's been haunting me for 12 years not knowing if I was on some secret blacklist deep in the British archives or not. I'm not even sure if I still have the paperwork from everything because it's been so long and I've moved so many times. I might have shredded them thinking my chances were long gone or they might be in my attic or my mother's garage or somewhere else. Can I request copies from the consulate? Is that even a good idea? Would I be better off going to the Premium Visa Application center here in Houston where I live? Is having someone else prepare my paperwork likely to help me anymore than last time?

I thought I had a pretty good visa agent back then, but of course he was American and the system was changing. I forgot to mention but when was being interrogated they took every piece of paper I had with me including the old emails saying myself and the others would just fly to Ireland to reset our visas (again, I didn't know that was bad at the time, just going by what they said,) but I feel like they probably have this laundry list of evidence against me to be brought up every time I try again. I really do want to go back to the UK and take my kids when they're old enough to appreciate it, this is just like me dipping my toe in the water before taking the plunge if you will... I never really had anything like this back when everything went to hell in a handbasket

I don't remember if they wrote 'used deception' or it was just the general tone but I don't remember anything specific about issuing a ban that's why it's been haunting me for 12 years not knowing if I was on some secret blacklist deep in the British archives or not.

If there was nothing specific about a ban, then you weren't given a ban. You would definitely know if you had been and probably wouldn't have even been allowed to transit through the UK.

I'm not even sure if I still have the paperwork from everything because it's been so long and I've moved so many times. I might have shredded them thinking my chances were long gone or they might be in my attic or my mother's garage or somewhere else. Can I request copies from the consulate? Is that even a good idea?

I'm not sure if you can get copies, to be honest.

I think you would just have to explain in the application form that you no longer have the paperwork. In that case, UKVI will need to look up the paperwork themselves... which means it may add a couple of weeks to the processing time while they get hold of it.

Would I be better off going to the Premium Visa Application center here in Houston where I live?

No, I wouldn't attempt it, especially if you don't have the refusal paperwork - the premium centres can only process straightforward applications with no previous refusals and no complicated circumstances... because it's a fast-track service.

Due to all your refusals, they won't be able to make a fast decision and so you're only feasible option would be to apply by mail to NYC.

Is having someone else prepare my paperwork likely to help me anymore than last time?

Personally, I would do it yourself, since that way you will know exactly what is being submitted and you won't be putting your application in someone else's hands.

We can help you work out what paperwork you need, and answer any questions you have for free.

Otherwise, you could contact an immigration lawyer, but we only recommend two lawyers here on the forum, as they specialise in US to UK visa applications... but they are expensive (i.e. several hundred pounds): Laura Devine in London and NYC, or Medivisas in London.

I thought I had a pretty good visa agent back then, but of course he was American and the system was changing.

Personally, I don't trust visa agents or most lawyers - hardly any of them actually know what they are talking about and several people here on the forum have been given very bad advice from them, which would have (or did) resulted in a visa refusal.

A visitor visa is a straightforward application, and the documents you need are very clear. You just have to make sure you send them all to show you meet all the requirements.

I really do want to go back to the UK and take my kids when they're old enough to appreciate it, this is just like me dipping my toe in the water before taking the plunge if you will... I never really had anything like this back when everything went to hell in a handbasket

Okay, if you're hoping to visit in the future as well as taking this trip, then the visitor visa really is the best way to go. If you are able to get this one, you should be able to get other visas more easily in the future.

Just don't rush it, don't panic... just take it slowly, ask any questions you need to, and we can help you put together the best application you can.

You can't apply until 3 months before you want to travel to the UK anyway, so if the trip is next year, you have plenty of time to prepare.

If you are able to get this one, you should be able to get other visas more easily in the future.

Just don't rush it, don't panic... just take it slowly, ask any questions you need to, and we can help you put together the best application you can.

You can't apply until 3 months before you want to travel to the UK anyway, so if the trip is next year, you have plenty of time to prepare.

Do you think that email about the organization sending us to Ireland to reset is going to hurt me more? I don't know how to convince them of my honesty after all this time even if I do tick all their boxes because it feels like I ticked them all before but it never worked.  It's just terrifying to consider I might be permanently suspect and my husband and kids doomed to go to the UK without me forever if I can't convince UKVI (once my kids are old enough they'll probably be glad of that though) 

Nope...not for that -  they can only give you a 10-year ban if they CAUGHT you using deception to enter the UK at the time of the trip.

They can ban for using deception to enter the UK before. That always shocks people, especially if they have received a visa since their deception. Just because someone isn't caught at the time, it doesn't mean the slate is wiped clean.

Apply for a visitor visa and be honest with your answers. It's been years since you used Ireland to enter the UK and you didn't overstay.

I can sense from your posts that you just want to sit down one-on-one with an immigration officer to explain everything. That will not happen. Sorry, but you have to accept it.

Applying for the visa in advance is a tick-box activity (as is sitting down with somebody to a certain extent). Flying over without one will raise suspicion and will likely lead to a refusal and you will ruin your whole 10 year clean streak. It shouldn't even be an option. Let's get it right going forward now 

Once you accept that you need to apply for the advanced visitors visa we will talk you through your application, as this site (esp. ksand and KFdancer) have done for two of my wife's successful visa applications