Making it work in Glasgow or Dunfermline?

Looks like we will still be going to the subject cities after going the 6th month savings route.

My wife is pretty convinced that our children will live horrible lives in either location.

We prefer Glasgow because we are familiar with it, but the majority of her family has moved to Dunfermline.

I liked Glasgow when I lived there and did not like the feel of Dunfermline when I went there. No offense intended to anyone.

My wife grew up in intense poverty and around lots of violence in Glasgow. She is convinced that things will not be great for our kids.

I think that she might be right. As an IT person I don't see how it will be likely to generate the income required to escape the dodgy areas. My wife has a situation which makes work difficult for her.

In the USA as an IT person I am considered a "someone" economically. Making it here working in IT is a joke even with my wife not working. I have noticed that IT work in Glasgow is generally considered a lower paying type of job.

Moving to Glasgow is beneficial to this family in a variety of ways beyond the scope of this post, but I can't see why my wife wouldn't be right about being forced to live in a crappy area and having the kids attend crappy schools.

Seems like there is no middle class and that we'd be forced into a lower middle class situation.

I know that there are decent paying IT jobs, but like anything else they are harder to get.

When I last lived in the UK between 2004-2005 I made 25k with 5-6 years of IT experience. It was almost impossible to get that much money. I now have almost 20 years of IT experience. I figure that I won't be able to make much more.

I get the feeling that nicer places there are reserved for the wealthy in Glasgow.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

Hi there, us2uk4me!

What sort of IT work do you do? I haven't started looking for a job yet, but my friends here all make £35k-40k a year, and tell me it's possible to find £45k at a large company in a senior role. (We're mostly infrastructure technicians and ITSM process people.) It's still not as much as you'd make in the US, but it's more than enough to live in a decent area.

I have no experience with Dunfermline but I live just outside Glasgow. Are you wanting to live in the city centre or out in one of the suburbs?

I would think if you lived in Dunfermline your only option would be a commute to Edinburgh if you want to stay in the IT field. And I believe the cost of living near Edinburgh is much higher than Glasgow.

ETA: I asked my husband what he knows about the area and he said if you haven't been to Dunfermline in 10+ years it's probably improved quite a bit. He seems to think it's not that bad anymore.

Dunfermline has some crappy bits and some nicer bits, but overall I think you'll find it cheaper than Glasgow when comparing between nice bits. There are also nice villages all around Fife that are still relatively affordable to live in. I think your wife is being overly pessimistic for both cities though!

There are also nice villages all around Fife that are still relatively affordable to live in. I think your wife is being overly pessimistic for both cities though!

Exactly.    Don't limit yourself to those two places, especially if your wife  doesn't like the idea of either.

Make sure you have a way back if things don't work out - rent your house out, put items in storage, get US citizenship, etc. It's what we did.

I agree with Brenzie, you can't generalise and say "In Glasgow, all IT work is low paid."  In general, IT is one of the only sectors where people are still treated and paid like they are humans.  Thanks to Tory austerity, almost every other job has been devalued to a minimum wage zero hours uber style gig. 

I'm wondering if there's not an underlying issue that you aren't addressing: perhaps your wife doesn't want to move at all.  In that case, Neither Glasgow or Dunfermline are going to work no matter what.  I'm just guessing from the tone of your letter and may well be wrong.

Hi there, us2uk4me!

What sort of IT work do you do? I haven't started looking for a job yet, but my friends here all make £35k-40k a year, and tell me it's possible to find £45k at a large company in a senior role. (We're mostly infrastructure technicians and ITSM process people.) It's still not as much as you'd make in the US, but it's more than enough to live in a decent area.

I have no experience with Dunfermline but I live just outside Glasgow. Are you wanting to live in the city centre or out in one of the suburbs?

I would think if you lived in Dunfermline your only option would be a commute to Edinburgh if you want to stay in the IT field. And I believe the cost of living near Edinburgh is much higher than Glasgow.

ETA: I asked my husband what he knows about the area and he said if you haven't been to Dunfermline in 10+ years it's probably improved quite a bit. He seems to think it's not that bad anymore.

Hello and thanks for your post. I do Infrastructure and IT Security equally well actually just not Networking. No desire to live in Dunfermline. I never liked the feel of that or Edinburgh when I was there. Not meant to be offensive. Dunfermline just reminded me of a DC suburb. Is 35k-40k enough to make it on with 2 kids and a spouse who isn't working? It's relatively easy to pull in 120k-190k plus here in the DC area. I know that there are differences in housing costs and benefits between here and there but we live in a distant DC suburb where housing and commuting is cheap.

Dunfermline has some crappy bits and some nicer bits, but overall I think you'll find it cheaper than Glasgow when comparing between nice bits. There are also nice villages all around Fife that are still relatively affordable to live in. I think your wife is being overly pessimistic for both cities though!

Thanks, but it's just a little bit hard to argue with her actual experiences in both places isn't it? She has told me some absolute horror stories in regards to both places while living there. I know that there is a rivalry between both locations. My wife was in a cab with me in Edinburgh and the cabbie didn't understand or pretended to not understand what she was saying even though she grew up 40 miles away. 

Like I mentioned in my last response, I didn't like the American Goth looking suburb that I observed in Dunfermline and the posh/stuck up feeling I noticed in Edinburgh.

I like down to earth, leave me alone type of living where possible. If I am forced to interact with other humans in close proximity (which I am trying to avoid) I prefer down to earth folks. Not to say that everyone in Dunfermline/Fife is going to explicitly meet those stereotypes, but I'd rather not find out that I am more right than wrong.

Exactly.    Don't limit yourself to those two places, especially if your wife  doesn't like the idea of either.

Any other suggestions as to commutable locations into either location? Starting to lean towards Glasgow but still open to listening. I am into mega commutes. I'll gladly sacrifice house size/price/location for closeness to a city center. Last time I lived in Royston/Glasgow and Shettleston/Glasgow when the kids were small. I loved them both but want to live outside of the city I think. I'll do 2 hours commute in each direction as long as it is using public transport.

My DC commute is currently 1hrs 40 minutes minimum best case and averages about 2hrs 20 minutes in each direction. It can swell to 3.5 hours in each direction if anything goes wrong at all. So already hardened to commutes that others cry about.

I agree with Brenzie, you can't generalise and say "In Glasgow, all IT work is low paid."  In general, IT is one of the only sectors where people are still treated and paid like they are humans.  Thanks to Tory austerity, almost every other job has been devalued to a minimum wage zero hours uber style gig. 

I'm wondering if there's not an underlying issue that you aren't addressing: perhaps your wife doesn't want to move at all.  In that case, Neither Glasgow or Dunfermline are going to work no matter what.  I'm just guessing from the tone of your letter and may well be wrong.

...but WHY can't I generalize about Glasgow IT work being low paid. As I mentioned already, I actually worked there. I almost had to cut off my right foot to make 25k. I mean 25k to stand in front of UK Law Enforcement Officers for IT Infrastructure demos for hours on end? Sure I had much less experience then, but I don't see much improvement as far as wages in the market.

I have tried for many years to no avail to return to the UK and all the while I have experience prima facie proof of what the pay was. Pay is also listed on the job portals so there really is no generalization. Not sure where you are getting that I am generalizing when I have been pretty engaged with facts all the while.

You are generally incorrect in your assumption. Sure, there are factors keeping us here but that is more often than not the status qo on this forum.

We'd just like to step into some peace and quiet on the other side. It's hard to argue with my wife's ACTUAL experiences while living in Glasgow proper. I'd not want to live there and experience what she experienced either. Having lived there for only about a year I more than likely didn't have enough time to experience what she experienced.

Why stick to the Central Belt?  If you want peace, quiet, and relative safety, head north.

Check the NHS Scotland jobs site, you'll find IT jobs going all over the country.  Granted, the pay is lower than in the US, but at least it's steady work.  You're incredibly unlikely to find yourself suddenly redundant, and once you get a foot in the door, if you decide you hate the community you're in, you've got an edge on taking a job with a different Health Board.

All of Scotland, and especially Glasgow, has changed A LOT since your wife was growing up. Even in the 13.5 years I've been here things have improved. My husband grew up in Edinburgh, left for 18 years, then we moved back 2 years ago, and for him it's a completely different city. I don't think it's stuck up at all, or at least it depends where you are. Some neighbourhoods are posh and some are normal and some are shite, like anywhere. I love living on in Edinburgh, and I hate Glasgow, while others are the opposite, and some like both, but basing your opinion of the places based on experiences more than 10 years old will not give you a realistic view of it is now.

I lived in Glasgow for about 7 years, and now live in a Fife village/town about 15 minutes from Dunfermline. I grew up in an inside-the-beltway DC suburb.
Scotland is a humble place. Very different from DC and its suburbs.
Everyone's salarys here are going to look like a joke compared to those made where you live now. I don't know if that will make you feel better or worse...
Anyways, Glasgow is not a dangerous and crappy place to live, that's a pretty outdated view on the city. To me, it actually seems like an amazing place to raise kids.
Dunfermline is a perfectly fine place to live, and you'll get a bigger house for your money, etc - but it's more of a place that people live because they've always lived there, not a place people move *to*.
Happy to provide answers to specific questions if you have any.

Any other suggestions as to commutable locations into either location? Starting to lean towards Glasgow but still open to listening. I am into mega commutes. I'll gladly sacrifice house size/price/location for closeness to a city center. Last time I lived in Royston/Glasgow and Shettleston/Glasgow when the kids were small. I loved them both but want to live outside of the city I think. I'll do 2 hours commute in each direction as long as it is using public transport.

I'm really surprised to hear that you liked both Royston and Shettleston, as both those places are generally considered to be 'bad' areas!

You might want to do some research about Helensburgh, since you're happy with a commute and want to live outside the city.  I currently live there and commute to Glasgow city centre on the train... takes about 45 minutes.  Helensburgh itself is considered 'nice' and 'middle class', although it does have it's share of 'iffy' areas.  I don't have kids, but I believe the schools in Helensburgh are considered to be good.  It's a very pretty location, on the Firth of Clyde and was a popular holiday resort back in the day... if your wife is from Glasgow, she might well be familiar with Helensburgh already.

Hope you find what you're looking for.   

First, salary. You will see salaries a lot lower than even in many other parts of the UK, particularly the south east of England. But, the cost of living is a lot lower. We moved to near Glasgow last year and took a drop from £48k to £30k, but are much better off due to lower costs for things like housing.

Second, Glasgow. I don't live in the city itself, but do work in it. All of the old tenements were demolished years ago and it is now a very different city. I work in Glasgow and also visit on weekends regularly and find it a great city with some amazing places to visit. It is also the greenest city in Europe and covered in parks.

Another option would be to look outside of Glasgow. For example, we live in a very pretty village in the countryside near the town of Strathaven, which is a lovely market town surrounded by great countryside and only 18 miles from Glasgow