What to do about issue with neighbor and trash?

Sonofasailor, I feel like you're bullying MPI.  Please don't.

Maybe you should save your 'chirping up' for when someone is actually slagging single mums, travellers and strikers.  Unless I missed something, that didn't happen here.

MPI - do you have a 6 month break clause in your rental contract? Just in case?

This is a tough situation to be in - we have upstairs neighbors at our last place who decided to leave their trash in bags down by their front door (they had a maisonette) and none of the three guys in there, who walked past it multiple times a day, would take it out the front door of the building. So then it started smelling up our flat and sure enough, we got mice. Big mice too, who chewed through our electrical wires resulting in loss of electricity to certain rooms, power tripping a lot, and probably a substantial fire hazard. We told our landlord who told theirs and they got it together (and they were inconsiderate in other ways too) but its hard when we are all so crammed together that other people's actions impact you and your quality of life when a little bit of thinking and courtesy could go a long way.

Have any of the other neighbors mentioned how long the people who lived in your flat before you stayed?

MPI - do you have a 6 month break clause in your rental contract? Just in case?

This is a tough situation to be in - we have upstairs neighbors at our last place who decided to leave their trash in bags down by their front door (they had a maisonette) and none of the three guys in there, who walked past it multiple times a day, would take it out the front door of the building. So then it started smelling up our flat and sure enough, we got mice. Big mice too, who chewed through our electrical wires resulting in loss of electricity to certain rooms, power tripping a lot, and probably a substantial fire hazard. We told our landlord who told theirs and they got it together (and they were inconsiderate in other ways too) but its hard when we are all so crammed together that other people's actions impact you and your quality of life when a little bit of thinking and courtesy could go a long way.

Have any of the other neighbors mentioned how long the people who lived in your flat before you stayed?

We do not have a break clause in our contract.  I'm also unwilling to attempt to break the contract except in an emergency.  This is a really good management company we're with and it would also be difficult to get a different place without perfect references from past landlords, which is what we have now and I would fear we wouldn't if we did try to break the lease.

There wasn't anyone before us, this flat was vacant as the owners spent a few months doing it up after buying it.  They originally bought it for their daughter, who ended up moving somewhere else.  Most people we have spoken to have lived in this building for years and years though, and this flat had been owned by the same person before for several years.  Not sure if they lived in or not.

So I have a positive update, and also a question.  It seems that our neighbor is moving!  I overheard her the other day telling someone outside (she smokes and stands like right in front of our door) that she was given a bigger place to accommodate the kids.  Soo good because I had worried they wouldn't count as more than .5 of a person for overcrowding until they were 10, and they're toddlers.

The question is: when someone moves out of a council flat (it's not a trade, she just bid on another place) will someone from the council come and do a 'check out' of sorts, like you would in a privately rented flat?  She still has 3 bags of trash sitting outside the door and seems to have some things of hers still in the flat, so is still in the process of moving, but I honestly wouldn't be shocked if she left the trash there after she is completely out.  I would guess she still has this place through the end of the month but is staying at the new one as they're pretty loud and I haven't heard them for a few days.

That's great news!  I wish it'd been resolved sooner and with the neighbour actively working toward cleaning up her own trash, but any movement on any front is a good result.

It depends on the council.  I used to work in a housing sector and some of the places that were offered to my clients were in quite the state and it was more or less up to the client to do something about them.  If it's managed by the council rather than a HA then there was often a bit more pull in getting the basics cleaned up and ready to go again, but council / HA never wanted the gap that results in waiting for someone to come out and clean it so it was offered around before anything was really done.  Basically in trying to meet targets regarding rehousing and homelessness they cut corners and having no gap and therefore nothing cleaned up means meeting more targets more quickly.  I can't say that entering a dirty home and being expected to clean it exactly made most of my clients keen on keeping it looking wonderful themselves. Sigh.

If you can, I'd seriously suggest donning a pair of Marigolds once you know the family is out and moving the trash.  Then the new person sees no trash piled up from the beginning so may be less likely to leave trash there themselves.

If you can, I'd seriously suggest donning a pair of Marigolds once you know the family is out and moving the trash.  Then the new person sees no trash piled up from the beginning so may be less likely to leave trash there themselves.

I agree with this!  If the new people come up with the idea of leaving trash there on their own, you can tell them it isn't done.  But if they see that the previous tenant did it, you lose any semblance of authority.

It's not a bad idea but I'm not positive for sure when she's out?  She seems to still have stuff in her flat so even though she's not staying here it's possible she's got an overlapping lease.  Thank you for the inside look into the housing department

In the news recently, there was a family that was given a house that was riddled with offensive graffiti from the previous tenants as well as holes in the floorboards and walls. The council didn't bother cleaning it up, and the family rejected it, so they were taken off the list (at first) after rejecting two properties.

Surely there is an issue of safety if they didn't pick up the trash. We had a problem here with trash piling up, and because it wasn't in bags, the council would not take them until finally the maintenance people in the area told them it was becoming a health and safety issue. Suddenly they were out cleaning it all up!

If it's only a few bags, I totally agree that you may have to sort it out yourself. If she comes back and starts piling up the rubbish even more while emptying the property and it doesn't get moved, then I would tell the council that it's becoming a nuisance!

I'm considering telling the council it's a nuisance anyway (as I have already been in contact with them over this issue many times over the last 4 months).  We have seen mice on the trash and I am extremely germ-a-phobic (not helped by the fact that I just finished my food safety qualification and had to read about tons of pest borne illnesses) so I am pretty worried about contracting some kind of rodent disease!  When they have visited before to tell her that she can't leave her trash out they cleared it for her.

When they have visited before to tell her that she can't leave her trash out they cleared it for her.

WTF?  Of course she's going to leave her trash out if the council is going to come pick it up. 

WTF?  Of course she's going to leave her trash out if the council is going to come pick it up.

Right??

Honestly in retrospect I think they should have fined her for fly tipping and it wouldn't have happened again. 

There must be some smart way you can manage the next tenants in advance of trouble starting.  Maybe on the first day you could show up with mugs of tea and talk with them about how much it sucks to have to clean up after someone else.  Then mention that you already cleaned up the hall for them because management in this building seems to be really strict about that.  In fact, that might be the reason the previous tenant had to leave.  Seems like the council was here all the time to deal with complaints, maybe it all got a bit much for the building management company.

It wouldn't have happened.  You said she was a single parent.

Let's assume, and I know this is just an assumption and a massive one at that, that she was on benefits or a low income (assumed because she's in council housing, a single parent of young children, and has been granted a larger accommodation meaning the council still assume responsibility for her).  Budgeting was a primary concern for my clients.  I worked with people who were homeless or insecurely housed.  I spent hours with them.  If it was, let's just say, a £50 fine, that can be a huge amount of the person's weekly income or benefits. As an example, that's over 65% of a weekly amount of basic benefits such as JSA.  I don't know the % of a low income in general or her income in particular.  When the client then doesn't pay or can't pay then the council must make a decision, punish the person by adding interest to the fine or dismiss the fine.  Neither helps.

I love budgeting.  I love finances.  I think I'm good at them.  But someone already in the position of being on a low income and being punished with a fine rarely worked in my experience.  It was my job to get them to attempt to deal with it - usually with an agreement of a small amount each week over a large time to write off the debt - often around £1 / week until cleared.  Try telling a client it'll take 12 months to clear a fine!  "Might as well just not pay it, what are they going to do about it anyhow!"  Often those agreements were broken and eventually I'd seek to get them written off - costing the council time and money to deal with the initial billing, chasing up of fines, and eventual write-off.  Most of my clients weren't inspired to fix the problem when presented with a fine, they'd just get angry.  Who grassed them up?  Why do they have to pay?  It isn't their fault that...!!!!  You already posted her letter.  She has a young child and can't get to the bins.  Her excuse to the council when presented with a fly-tipping bill is unlikely to differ no matter that she passes the bins daily.

I'm not saying that she's like my clients were necessarily.  Just trying to explain why a fine isn't a simple thing and why it doesn't always work.  None of this means I don't side with you.  I don't think you should have to live with sh*t outside your door.  I completely think that something needed to be done.  My solution is long-winded, expensive for councils and includes lots of support and assistance measures.

I'm glad for you that she's moving and hope that you get brilliant neighbours this next time around!

True, and I did say above I wanted and asked them to deal with it as gently as possible (without hardship to her).  Obviously it didn't really work but at least she will be someone else's problem neighbor now.

Jimbo  I'd hope to be friendly with the new neighbors regardless!  We tried to be friendly to this girl when we moved in and when we said hi we got the door slammed in our faces.  She only started saying hello to us eventually because we wore her down by saying hi every time we saw her. 

Probably for the best that we didn't become friends though (trash issue aside).  Once over the summer her then-boyfriend and what we thought was an ex or possible baby daddy (lol) got into a huge violent fight right outside the door.  She and the kids were okay (impressively the kids slept through it) but it was scary to hear that right at home, and I don't like to be involved in drama.  Although we liked that boyfriend because either he was clearing up the trash or she had some shame around him and did it herself, but they broke up after about two weeks.