"Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/disability-40849703/let-my-adopted-children-enter-the-uk

Anybody know what's going on in this case?  The only hint of a detail is this line, "The family initially applied for the wrong visa, following poor advice."

A few more details here:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/04/us-surgeon-may-be-forced-to-quit-uk-because-of-visa-nightmare

It sounds like first the Foreign & Commonwealth Office told them to go over on visitor visas and switch to something permanent once they were in the UK.

Then once they got to the UK and the entry control people told them that plan wouldn't work, they got a lawyer who got them a temporary visa and applied for them to stay as tier 2 dependents.  The Home Office denied that because they'd applied from within the UK.

The dude was recruited by the NHS, so you'd hope (haha) that one branch of the government would talk to the other one and get the situation sorted out without everyone having to go back to square one and start over.

From the Guardian article:

The situation:
- US husband... employed by the NHS (no mention of his visa type)
- British wife... who is a UK citizen by descent (she was not born in the UK)
- 1 biological son
- 2 adopted sons

Normally, with a British parent, both the biological children and adopted children would qualify for dual-citizenship (US and UK). However, because the mother was not born in the UK, she cannot pass her UK citizenship down to any of the children... meaning they all need visas.

They were told the adopted children could enter the UK as visitors and then apply for FLR(M). So they flew to the UK in March 2016, were detained because they were trying to move to the UK on visitor visas, allowed to enter for 3 days (UKVI kept their passports), and were issued with tickets back to NYC 3 days later.

While they were detained, they found a lawyer who got the boys out of detention and told them to apply for Tier 2 dependant visas based on their father's job. These were refused because the applications were made inside the UK.

Then they hired another lawyer who tried to campaign for them to stay under Article 8. 10 months later, this was also refused.

The father and adopted sons returned to the US, with the mother and biological son staying in the UK (though no idea what the son's immigration status is, because he shouldn't be entitled to UK citizenship).

Yup, tried to switch from visitor visas inside the UK.

Sucks, but pretty clear on the .gov website that it can't be done.  Basically they've spent a crap ton of money unnecessarily and should have just applied from the US in the first place.

So the biological son is legally in the same situation as the adoptive ones...  And as long as he remains in the UK, he is presumably here on a visitor visa, and cannot switch and his stay is limited... plus, no NHS, and no work or public funds.  The adopted kids are not being singled out.  The parents just don't know what's going on and are going to continue to make mistakes that will make the biological kids' life difficult in the future.

Sucks, but pretty clear on the .gov website that it can't be done.  Basically they've spent a crap ton of money unnecessarily and should have just applied from the US in the first place.

Some things aren't making sense to me though:

- what visas are they actually trying to apply for?
- is the father going the Tier 2 route or the spousal visa route?
- why has the biological son been allowed to stay if the mother was not born in the UK and is a UK citizen by descent? Surely all 3 of the kids need visas if that is the case?

It should be a case of:

Mother born in the UK (citizen otherwise than by descent)
- all three children are entitled to dual citizenship and only the father needs a visa

OR

Mother not born in the UK (citizen by descent)
- none of the children are entitled to dual citizenship and ALL of them need visas except the mother

Some things aren't making sense to me though:

- what visas are they actually trying to apply for?
- is the father going the Tier 2 route or the spousal visa route?
- why has the biological son been allowed to stay if the mother was not born in the UK and is a UK citizen by descent? Surely all 3 of the kids need visas if that is the case?

It should be a case of:

Mother born in the UK (citizen otherwise than by descent)
- all three children are entitled to dual citizenship and only the father needs a visa

OR

Mother not born in the UK (citizen by descent)
- none of the children are entitled to dual citizenship and ALL of them need visas except the mother

Safe to say the media doesn't have the story straight.

It says the mother is a stay at home Mom.  My guess is they are using cash savings to apply as family members, based on the cost ($2k per visa) and the 12 week timeline.  Hopefully they aren't counting on the dads employment!

I just hope they are finally applying for the correct visa and have their ducks in a row.

I'm surprised the incorrect info wasn't the "Home Office Call Line".

They appear to be fortunate in that they can qualify two ways (as a family member or a Tier 2 dependent).

No earthly idea why the one kid wasn't affected though. I can't figure that one out!

Safe to say the media doesn't have the story straight.

It says the mother is a stay at home Mom.  My guess is they are using cash savings to apply as family members, based on the cost ($2k per visa) and the 12 week timeline.  Hopefully they aren't counting on the dads employment!

I just hope they are finally applying for the correct visa and have their ducks in a row.

I'm surprised the incorrect info wasn't the "Home Office Call Line".

They appear to be fortunate in that they can qualify two ways (as a family member or a Tier 2 dependent).

No earthly idea why the one kid wasn't affected though. I can't figure that one out!

But if Dad doesn't have a visa, he couldn't work in the UK.  So I assume he was sponsored by NHS for a Tier 2.  Did they just not bother with dependent visas for the kids because they incorrectly assumed the kids inherited automatic UKC from the mum?

I could see how, if they went through IC separately on arrival (Mum as UKC, taking one of the kids, and Dad as USC taking the other two), different outcomes could have occurred.  It'd be easy for the ECO to assume that the child with the UKC mum is also UKC.  And the dad is there with his Tier 2 visa (presumably?) and two sons in tow, who are trying to enter permanently on a visitor visa and get denied.

But if Dad doesn't have a visa, he couldn't work in the UK.  So I assume he was sponsored by NHS for a Tier 2.  Did they just not bother with dependent visas for the kids because they incorrectly assumed the kids inherited automatic UKC from the mum?

I could see how, if they went through IC separately on arrival (Mum as UKC, taking one of the kids, and Dad as USC taking the other two), different outcomes could have occurred.  It'd be easy for the ECO to assume that the child with the UKC mum is also UKC.  And the dad is there with his Tier 2 visa (presumably?) and two sons in tow, who are trying to enter permanently on a visitor visa and get denied.

They definitely elude to dad having a Tier 2.

But if Dad doesn't have a visa, he couldn't work in the UK.  So I assume he was sponsored by NHS for a Tier 2.  Did they just not bother with dependent visas for the kids because they incorrectly assumed the kids inherited automatic UKC from the mum?

That's the thing though... the article says:

After accepting the job in January 2017, Thies agreed to move from Oregon to Britain with his British wife, their biological child, Philip, nine, and two adopted children, Benjamin and Edward, aged 10 and 12.

Gillian, a chemist who gave up her job to look after the children, was uncertain about how to obtain permanent visas for her adopted children. She sought advice from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in America, which, she said, told her that because she wasn’t born in Britain, she couldn’t bring her adopted children into the country with permanent visas.

“I was told that the fact the boys were adopted meant they were treated differently under immigration proceedings than for any other legal process but that the boys could enter Britain on visit visas, as they had done many times before, and we could then change the boys’ status while they were all living here,” she said.

What I don't get is why she was trying to get visas for the adopted kids, but not the biological child.

Either all 3 kids are British or all 3 kids need visas... it shouldn't be one thing for 1 child and the other for the other 2 children.

My aunt is a dual-US/UK citizen (born in the UK, emigrated to the US) and she adopted 3 US-born children. All three of them were entitled to dual citizenship and have both US and UK passports.

They definitely elude to dad having a Tier 2.

Yeah, it mentions that the NHS failed to find a suitable candidate within the UK and that they spent £20,000 and 9 months recruiting him... which they would not have needed to do if he was able to move on a spousal visa.

What I don't get is why she was trying to get visas for the adopted kids, but not the biological child.

Either all 3 kids are British or all 3 kids need visas... it shouldn't be one thing for 1 child and the other for the other 2 children.

Maybe the couple asked the wrong questions at the start of this, and got off on the wrong track from the very beginning, and rather than backing up and starting over, every time they talk to a new person, they tell them what the last step was, so nobody's ever uncovered the fact that none of the children is UKC.

Maybe she's unaware that UKC'ship is not automatic for her because she's UKC-by-descent, rather than born in the UK.

So they incorrectly believe that the biological son was born a UKC/USC dual national, automatically.

And they must believe that because the other two are adopted, they needed to do something to notify the UK of them, to secure their citizenship, but they haven't bothered to do anything until now because it was a hassle they didn't need to deal with until faced with moving to the UK.

So then dad gets this job offer in the UK, and the family are all, "Great!  Mom's UKC, biological kid's UKC, dad has Tier 2... now we just have to ask about the other two."  So that's all they asked about.

And based on the questions asked, and the lack of knowledge of the person they asked them to, they got bad information.

Yeah, it mentions that the NHS failed to find a suitable candidate within the UK and that they spent £20,000 and 9 months recruiting him... which they would not have needed to do if he was able to move on a spousal visa.

This is the part that amazes me (although I don't know why; I've been in the UK long enough to expect the system to not work). The NHS spent money and time getting the doctor, but apparently no time at all helping him and his family wade through their visa situation?

I'm sure he's not the first doctor recruited from outside the UK; there must be someone in the NHS who knows enough about UK immigration to help foreign people navigate the system. Somehow, though, these people were left to figure it out on their own.

Maybe the biological child was born in the UK? It must not have been a problem, or he'd have been detained as well, so he must have a British passport.

This is one situation where I REALLY wish this person had found UKY. It sounds like (frankly unlike a lot of immigration sob stories you read about) this couple genuinely weren't trying to get away with breaking the rules, they just got terrible advice from people who had no idea what the &*$% they were talking about. This forum could have had them sorted easily. It's really unfortunate.

Also, the NHS really needs to get their act together because this sort of recruitment is going to get a lot more common post-Brexit.

Maybe the biological child was born in the UK? It must not have been a problem, or he'd have been detained as well, so he must have a British passport.

This is one situation where I REALLY wish this person had found UKY. It sounds like (frankly unlike a lot of immigration sob stories you read about) this couple genuinely weren't trying to get away with breaking the rules, they just got terrible advice from people who had no idea what the &*$% they were talking about. This forum could have had them sorted easily. It's really unfortunate.

Also, the NHS really needs to get their act together because this sort of recruitment is going to get a lot more common post-Brexit.

I agree.  They aren't acting entitled.  They've returned to the US to apply from there and follow proper procedures.  Seriously, I bet they called the Home Office who told them they could change status in country...    

Maybe the biological child was born in the UK? It must not have been a problem, or he'd have been detained as well, so he must have a British passport.

Yeah, I did wonder if that was the case... it's the only thing that really makes sense.

This is one situation where I REALLY wish this person had found UKY. It sounds like (frankly unlike a lot of immigration sob stories you read about) this couple genuinely weren't trying to get away with breaking the rules, they just got terrible advice from people who had no idea what the &*$% they were talking about. This forum could have had them sorted easily. It's really unfortunate.

Yeah, it's not like they're trying to mooch off the system or anything.

It should have been a pretty straightforward case of applying for Tier 2 Dependant visas for the kids at the same time as applying for the husband's visa and then moving over.