National Insurance Number

Thank you.  We will read the latest version.  So, as we are here now, can we still apply for the self-sufficient qualified person (and purchase comprehensive sickness insurance) whilst in transition?  We do have income coming in and it is sufficient to support us.

Yes, that's the idea, you all arrive and then your sponsor makes themself a qualified person so that you can all remain. Either an SS QP, or your sponsor needs to take any job to make himself a worker "qualified person" before his tiime is up and then look for a job that he would like while he is in work.

He might like to look at being a jobseeker quailifed person too, but that requires full proof that has to met to be taken into account. However, there is a time limit for jobseeking too now, which as I recall under the February 2017 EEA Reg changes, is 91 days in the '5 years to PR' and that incudes the 90 days since they arrived?

If you go the Self Sufficient route first, Nan had a thread somewhere on buying a CSI for her daughter. Many of Nan's threads will be a good guide for you too.

Did you manage to get your niece a FP as a Direct Family Member or Extended Family Member? If she is an EFM then she must have an RC granted by the UK as EFMs have no automatic right to live in another EEA country with an EEA sponsor who is exercising treaty rights. The rest of you won't need an RC, but they make it easier for work, schools etc. You can read more here-
https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-residence-card

Yes, my niece has an EEA Family Permit.  We have the RC application form for her and I assumed that my daughter and I would also need to do the RC application before our EEA Family Permits expire.  Sorry, but this is kind of confusing for us.

On another matter, my husband is a member on UK Yankee, but hasn't yet posted.  I see now that to get verified one needs to spend one pound and pay via PayPal.  Our PayPal account is still set to the US, with our US bank account.  I'm trying to figure out how to change it and then put in our UK bank account information (so he can get verified).

In the meantime, he wrote up the following (he is listed as "Andyboy"):

"I am a little confused about Relevant Period For Jobseekers. If I interpret this passage correctly, do I have a total of 6 months to look for work? (initial 3 months of unconditional period of residence,  and then 91 days) This is the first time I have lived in the UK.

This passage was taken from the UK.GOV.- European Economic Area nationals: qualified persons."

," the relevant period is 91 days (3 months) minus the total of any days during which the person concerned previously enjoyed a right to reside as a jobseeker, unless that previous period was prior to a continuous absence from the UK of more than 12 months. An EEA national who enters the UK to look for work will have the initial 3 month, unconditional period of residence, conferred by regulation 13 and then the period of 91 days as a jobseeker, providing they are actively seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged. In other words an EEA national who enters the UK to look for work will usually have a 3 month initial right of residence, followed by 91 days (3 months) as a jobseeker, provided the criteria are met. A jobseeker may have access Page 10 of 54 Published for Home Office staff on 01 February 2017 to benefits for this 91 day period of residence as a jobseeker. At the end of the 91 day period as a jobseeker the person will be required to provide compelling evidence, that they are actively seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged. If the person cannot satisfy this requirement then they cease to have a right of residence as a jobseeker and consequently cease to have access to benefits."

Hi. Sounds waaaay easier to come in as "Self Sufficient", which has no time limits. Then look for work. 

Hi. Sounds waaaay easier to come in as "Self Sufficient", which has no time limits. Then look for work. 

Hi Nan,
Thanks so much for chiming in.  Can you remind me of how you did the "self sufficient" process.  I'm assuming that we have to do this when we do the RC applications.  We are in Colchester, England now (we arrived on August 17th).  As well, can you remind me of how you ended up with the comprehensive insurance? 

Hi. If you're self-sufficient, or allowed in as a family member of a self-sufficient person, there's nothing to do. You are not required to file anything. You do have to have medical insurance that covers pretty much everything. You've got 90 days from the date the plane landed and you stepped off to get the insurance coverage in place. I was able to buy it by phone for my daughter and have it effective the next day. (My prior employer is providing full coverage for me.) I used one of those online health insurance comparison sites. A lot of the companies would not insure her as she'd not been in the country for a year on the NHS already, but we went with Aviva, which would. The premiums are very cheap (compared with USA medical premiums). They have the option to do an online consult with a GP, or you can still register with and use the NHS GPs. Any emergencies would require that you use the NHS emergency room, but care/recuperation can be covered by the insurance either at the NHS or a local private hospital.

HOWEVER, with all that being said about not needing to do anything as far as registering, I'm hearing that it's a lot easier looking for work/dealing with school things with the residence certificate (the EEA member) and the residence cards (the EEA dependents). Plus, if the EEA dependents want to leave the country and come back in after the EEA family permit has expired, it's supposedly a good idea to have the residence cards (which actually aren't cards, but stickers in your passports). Otherwise, hypothetically, they might be denied entry. That's why we were applying for a RC for my daughter - she may need to travel without me in the Spring and we don't want any nasty surprises at the border for her.

Applying for said cards:  self-sufficient persons can't use the online application process, you have to print it out and do it in hardcopy, and then mail it off to Durham, England.  My daughter was applying for her Residency Card, and had to do so separately from my application for a residence certificate, although they could both be mailed in the same envelope at the same time (going to the same place). I am not positive, but I think the instructions were that if I was in your situation - spouse of EEA, you would file your separate application and you ~could~ have all the kids on yours.

You'll want to provide original copies of the last three months of bank statements and/or proof of finances for sure - I included letters from my investment broker, plus retirement plan info. You'll need birth certs, marriage cert, etc.

Don't expect it to happen quickly - six months seems to be the optimistic standard. Our envelope was there for six weeks before it was logged in. Two weeks later it was returned to us, with a note saying they had trouble with the credit card. So, if it were me, I'd go the "postal money order" route so they can't have problems with the card.

We are holding off sending ours back in, as I have a job interview in two weeks. If I am employed, we can then drop the private medical insurance and also apply online. With applying online, we can use the European passport return service, which would have our passports back to us the same day. I'm not keen on being passport-less for six months - too much risk there. If I don't get the job, well, we're back to the paper application again.

Hope this helps!

On another matter, my husband is a member on UK Yankee, but hasn't yet posted.  I see now that to get verified one needs to spend one pound and pay via PayPal.  Our PayPal account is still set to the US, with our US bank account.  I'm trying to figure out how to change it and then put in our UK bank account information (so he can get verified).

It shouldn't matter that you have a US PayPal account, you should be able to pay for something that costs £1 and it will convert your dollars.
Any problems with them just pick up the phone, I have always found them really helpful.

It shouldn't matter that you have a US PayPal account, you should be able to pay for something that costs £1 and it will convert your dollars.
Any problems with them just pick up the phone, I have always found them really helpful.

You are right in that it doesn't really matter.  It's just that the paypal account is tied to our US bank and when they do the conversion, there are always fees.  Now that we have a UK bank account, we're trying to everything locally and not incur additional fees.  He'll most likely just us the US PayPal and get himself verified so he can do his own posting.

You are right in that it doesn't really matter.  It's just that the paypal account is tied to our US bank and when they do the conversion, there are always fees.  Now that we have a UK bank account, we're trying to everything locally and not incur additional fees.  He'll most likely just us the US PayPal and get himself verified so he can do his own posting.

Makes sense!  IIRC, you can have a UK PayPal account as well as a US one but you need to have a separate email address for each one.

Nan,
Thank you for all that information.  I do have a few more questions, if you don't mind.  First off, my daughter, niece and I do have the EEA Family permits (which are glued into our passports).  They expire on Dec. 15, 2017.  We got them a bit earlier than we needed to as we had logistical issues to contend with (we had to travel to Portland, Oregon and the only time the girls could do it was during their Spring break...and my daughter had to have her passport back in June for a choir trip to Japan).

Next, we arrived on August 17, 2017 (now 3 1/2 weeks).  I officially retired from my civil service job on August 31, 2017 and my US health insurance is good through the end of September.  We did register with a local GP and have NHS numbers.

Today my husband has an appointment in Chelmsford to get the National Insurance number process started.  My application came in the mail last week and I'll need to turn in my application form by Sept. 22.

I prefer that we all apply for the RC, so there are no questions, no issues, no worries.  The girls are going to local schools here and if we do leave the country (we'll probably go to Spain in March), I don't want there to be any hassle.

So, I do have the RC application printed out and see that my daughter and I do one and my niece does another.  I assume that on the application form, depending on which route we take (self sufficiency versus working) will determine what supporting documents we may need to turn in.

What about our passports?  If we need them back in a more timely fashion, what do we do about that?  I was thinking of turning in all the documentation in November.

I appreciate any advice or information you can provide.

There is a company in Ardleigh, 3.7 miles away, that provides advice on comprehensive insurance plans.  I think we'll make ourselves an appointment and see what we can learn about getting insurance for the entire family.

Yes, my niece has an EEA Family Permit. 

But is that as a Direct Family Member or as an Extended Family Member? It's important to check.
 

Did you manage to get your niece a FP as a Direct Family Member or Extended Family Member? If she is an EFM then she must have an RC granted by the UK as EFMs have no automatic right to live in another EEA country with an EEA sponsor who is exercising treaty rights. The rest of you won't need an RC, but they make it easier for work, schools etc. You can read more here-
https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-residence-card

I've often seen people talk about being in the UK on EU "visas", but the EU doesn't have visas, they have Cards. EEA Regulations are nothing like UK "visas" and you must make sure you are always following the EEA Regs, to all be lawfully in the UK.

As a spouse and  a daughter age under 21, you both have an automatic right under the EU Regs,, to be in the UK if your EEA sponsor is exercising treaty rights at all times, as the EU class you both as Direct Family Members.

An Extended Family Member does not have that automatic right and the EU merely asks the member state (that EEA country) if they can facilitate their EFMs but that county doesn't have to. EFMs must have an RC granted by that country otherwise they don't have a lawful right to be in that country once their FP expires: although their RC becomes invalid if their EEA sponsor stops exercising treaty rights in that country as the end date on an RC doesn't mean anything (it's not a "visa"). It's this 'not having an automatice right' for EFMs, which is why a refusal of an RC cannot not be appealed.

Nan's daughter is age over 21, but Nan managed to get the UK to allow her into the UK as a Direct Family Member and is doing the same for an RC. Therefore nan's daughter has an automatic right to be in the UK as long as nan is exercising her treaty rights at all times, which she has made sure she is doing.

Have a read of the RC link.

I prefer that we all apply for the RC, so there are no questions, no issues, no worries.  The girls are going to local schools here and if we do leave the country (we'll probably go to Spain in March), I don't want there to be any hassle.

So, I do have the RC application printed out and see that my daughter and I do one and my niece does another.  I assume that on the application form, depending on which route we take (self sufficiency versus working) will determine what supporting documents we may need to turn in.

What about our passports?  If we need them back in a more timely fashion, what do we do about that?  I was thinking of turning in all the documentation in November.

I appreciate any advice or information you can provide.

There is a company in Ardleigh, 3.7 miles away, that provides advice on comprehensive insurance plans.  I think we'll make ourselves an appointment and see what we can learn about getting insurance for the entire family.

You are correct on the documents required. The application advice packet is pretty thorough, so as long as you follow that based on the type of EEA status your husband has, you'd be good.

I'm wrestling with the passport thing myself.  I was told from several sources (including the official website) that one can request the passports back as long as it's after 10 days (working) from the date of submission. We unexpectedly needed my Daughter's back after we submitted the packet, so I did so. I got a confirming number  for the request. After another few weeks with no communication and no passport back, I sent the followup status request. Again, several weeks, no communication, no passport back.  I phoned them and was told that I should not have requested it back before it had been logged in (which eventually took them 6 weeks) and that they would almost certainly not return the passport until they were done with it. (Which contradicts the website and everything I've been told elsewhere.) Fast forward a few more weeks, the application returned as "not able to process" due to a problem with my payment method.

The Daughter's EEA FP expires in mid-October, and I'd very much like to have her application back in before it does so. Someone official told me it would be best to do that, at some earlier point when I was still exploring our options. So, if I get it in by Oct 1, if the timeline goes as it did on the last go-round,  it'd be close to Thanksgiving before they open the envelope, and their 6-month processing time starts then. So we might get the RC by May, if there are no questions or problems.

If I can use the "employed" route, I will use the online application option and the European Passport Return Service, which is basically that you take everything to one of a few centers around the country and they validate copies of your passports and hand them back to you. I believe that when it's time for the residency certificate/card, you then have to mail the passports to them for processing, but they should have them for a much shorter time at that point. For us, it will mean a trip to either Edinburgh or Rutherglen (here in Glasgow) - the bus ride would be just about the same length of time to either place so we'll probably do Edinburgh.

Without the EEA FP in her passport, I'm not sure how much static the Daughter will have at the border (or you or yours would), but at least having the passport with the expired FP in it is proof that everything has been registered with the government. I believe they do, at some point, send you a certificate of application document that should, with the passport, serve for border entry. The emphasis there is "should."

Whatever you do, be sure to send everything with tracking numbers. They can use the  tracking number to do look-ups on your material once it gets there, before  it is officially logged in, apparently. Once it's logged in, there is a website you can put your applicant number into and it'll give you your status as of that time.

On the insurance, it's a very different marketplace over here.  Unless you go with one of the really expensive comprehensive expat insurances, you automatically purchase a core cover, which is hospitals (primarily) and then cafeteria add-ons (how much extra cancer cover, physical therapy, psych services, testing, etc.)  If you have a local person who can walk you through it for free, great! It couldn't hurt. I'm more of a text-based person, so I prefer reading to hearing info, so the internet was great for me. The bottom line is that it needs to cover most of the expenses you or yours might incur - at least, that's the policy interpretation at present.  So there can be gaps in cover, as long as it's demonstratively comprehensive otherwise.  (You'll send a copy of the policy doc explaining cover in with your EEA RC applications.) The policy I purchased for the Daughter appears to meet the requirements, but I won't know for sure until the application is processed!  There is no central list of what policies meet government approval or anything.

Good luck!

In the meantime, he wrote up the following (he is listed as "Andyboy"):

"I am a little confused about Relevant Period For Jobseekers. If I interpret this passage correctly, do I have a total of 6 months to look for work? (initial 3 months of unconditional period of residence,  and then 91 days) This is the first time I have lived in the UK.

This passage was taken from the UK.GOV.- European Economic Area nationals: qualified persons."

," the relevant period is 91 days (3 months) minus the total of any days during which the person concerned previously enjoyed a right to reside as a jobseeker, unless that previous period was prior to a continuous absence from the UK of more than 12 months. An EEA national who enters the UK to look for work will have the initial 3 month, unconditional period of residence, conferred by regulation 13 and then the period of 91 days as a jobseeker, providing they are actively seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged. In other words an EEA national who enters the UK to look for work will usually have a 3 month initial right of residence, followed by 91 days (3 months) as a jobseeker, provided the criteria are met. A jobseeker may have access Page 10 of 54 Published for Home Office staff on 01 February 2017 to benefits for this 91 day period of residence as a jobseeker. At the end of the 91 day period as a jobseeker the person will be required to provide compelling evidence, that they are actively seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged. If the person cannot satisfy this requirement then they cease to have a right of residence as a jobseeker and consequently cease to have access to benefits."

That's from the link I gave for the Home Office staff, that shows what they are looking for to see if a person is an EU  "qualified person" in the UK.

If you haven't read the EU's Directive on Free Movement of Persons, or not read this document I linked, then if won't make sense what they are saying if you just read that part. It's pointless me answering that as you might do something else (I'm talking to your husband) that makes you all unlawfully in the UK. It's not like a UK immigration rules "visa" which once you have, is valid to an end date and you don't have to think about until the next visa is due.

You really should be reading these EEA Regs that allow you to be lawfully in the UK and you should too farmgirl, not at least because of illegally working being made a criminal offence from 2016. That law came in about the same time as the UK voted to Leave the EU, but Brexit had already focused the minds of those who entered the UK on EEA Regs, but then didn't bother to keep to them. You are not an EEA citizen and your right to be in the UK rests entirely on your EEA sponsor exercising treaty rights. Not in the UK keeping to the EEA Regs and don't have permission from the UK to be in the country (UK immigration laws) then these people and their family members are in breach of UK laws (unlawfully in the UK).

I can tell that nan has read them You and your husband need to read these too.

First off with the question "But is that as a Direct Family Member or as an Extended Family Member? It's important to check." my daughter and I are considered direct family members; our niece is an extended family member.  She is/has been our legal dependent for over two years and has absolutely no where to go (and at this point in her life is not able to be living on her own). Both she and our daughter are now full-time students.  Our niece is enroled in a 1-year program at Colchester Institute.  Our daughter is enroled in a 2-year IB diploma at the local Sixth Form college.

Next, from Nan's experiences, it sounds like, on the one hand we should prepare ourselves for having to go the self-sufficient route and get all of our documents together and look at the comprehensive medical insurance options.  But, at the same time, my husband (our sponsor) should continue his pursuit of employment.  It seems to me that if he does not find employment by the end of October/early November that we would want to go the route of self-sufficiency.

First off with the question "But is that as a Direct Family Member or as an Extended Family Member? It's important to check." my daughter and I are considered direct family members; our niece is an extended family member. 

As an Extended Family Member, she is not in the UK on the same rules as you and your age under 21 year old daughter, as you are Direct Family Members. An Extended Family Member must apply for an RC to be given permission to remain in the UK with their EEA sponsor who is exercising treaty rights at all times. You must do that for her so that she is lawfully in the UK too. Read the RC link I gave. She is not an EEA citizen and does not have any rights of her own in the EEA.



Those FPs are multi entry visit visas. The other EEA countries only give 3 month FPs as that complies with their visiting rules of a maximum of 3 months but as the UK has visit visas of 6 months, then the UK give an FP that is valid for 6 months. You can vist as many times as you want with your EEA citizen during that time.


However the EEA Regs still apply to your EEA husband and he can only visit for 3 months.  To remain longer than his 3 month visit, then he must be a "qualified person". If he is a "qualiified person" then the rights of you and your daughter to remain too, are automatic as you are his Direct Family members. Their extended family members must apply for an RC.


Now you can see how you can work on an FP when you sponsor starts to exercise treaty rights, but an Extended Family member can't, until they have been granted an UK RC.

As you can show she is dependant on you and was before she entered the UK, then her being granted an RC shouldn't be a problem, but she must have an RC to be lawfully in the UK with her EEA sponsor. Your husband, his wife and his under age 21 daughter, don't need to have an RC to be lawfully in the UK when he is exercising his treaty rights.

As long as your niece is dependant on her EEA sponsor, then her RC remains valid. As long as your husband is exercising treaty rights at all times, then you all have a right to reside in the UK while the UK remains in the EU.

Understood.  I would like to go through the process in the most direct way possible.  To clarify, does my spouse (the one with the EU passport) need to file this application within the 90-day period? 

EEA(QP) Application for a registration certificate as a European Economic Area (EEA) or Swiss national who is in the UK as a qualified person

Next, it sounds like our niece needs to file the extended family member RC application.  I assume also within the 90-day period.

Lastly, it sounds like my daughter and I don't necessarily have to file the direct family RC application, but according to Nan it's a good idea to do so.  Also to do within the 90-day period.

At this moment, as we've been in the UK for 27 days, I assume we are fine with respect to being here legally.  I'm not one for procrastination, so by day 75 or so, I'd want to have all the documents ready for either submitting by post and/or on-line.  If it looks like it is taking a lot longer for my husband to find employment, then our best route would be to go self-sufficient.  We plan on getting information on CSI in the next week or two.  As well, in October, we will start getting all of our financial statements together to demonstrate self sufficiency, if we need to do so. 

I am concerned about having our passports tied up for months on end, as our daughter may have the opportunity to go to Spain with her HL Spanish class in March/April.