When did you realise?

Wanna know something crazy?  I actually don't love being a homeowner!  I always enjoyed the freedom of renting as it allowed me to take opportunities as they were presented to me.

And yes, I realise I'm in finance and owning your own home is one of the first rules of a healthy personal financial situation.  But I really loved that I used to have ZERO debt.

Totally get that in some ways! There are times (mainly when things need fixing that are more costly) that I absolutely loathe it! But then I remember that if I were to ever travel elsewhere, I'd just rent my home out vs lose the equity! I would rather have a mortgage to pay in the long run than pay somebody to have no equity but I think that's just what works best in my personal situation as I know others who renting is a much better fit for.

What surprised me most was genuinely thinking that I was here forever... and then how quickly my mind opened up to moving back after having a kid.  I wouldn't have thought I would be like that!  The hard part of being an expat is that in some ways, you can't win.  If I lived in the USA, there are many things I wish my kids could experience in the UK.  If I stay in the UK, there are many things I wish my kids could experience in the USA!

While school funding cuts in the US are NOT cool, there is so much more focus on being well rounded there.  Here, it's ALL academics.  After school sports and activities are much fewer and further between.  I would actually be quite keen to explore private school for the kiddos.  It's not much more money than nursery!  But I don't think I could get my husband on board.  Not to mention you have to put your kids names down before they are born, I think!

Yeah I can definitely appreciate that having kids probably changes the game a LOT! When you aren't just worrying about yourself and your own personal experiences/likes/dislikes/wants/etc. but those of your little ones, I totally agree how it probably seems like you just can't win and it's a lose-lose regardless of what you pick!

Wanna know something crazy?  I actually don't love being a homeowner!  I always enjoyed the freedom of renting as it allowed me to take opportunities as they were presented to me.

And yes, I realise I'm in finance and owning your own home is one of the first rules of a healthy personal financial situation.  But I really loved that I used to have ZERO debt.

Before we bought our house, we had savings (our down payment and move-in money), and no debt.  Now we have a mortgage, so I have to qualify every "we live debt-free" statement with "except for the mortgage".  But the principal is under £100k, so it doesn't feel massive.  And, hopefully, we'll be able to improve our home so that it appreciates in value as we make it more comfortable to live in.

What surprised me most was genuinely thinking that I was here forever... and then how quickly my mind opened up to moving back after having a kid.  I wouldn't have thought I would be like that!  The hard part of being an expat is that in some ways, you can't win.  If I lived in the USA, there are many things I wish my kids could experience in the UK.  If I stay in the UK, there are many things I wish my kids could experience in the USA!

Now that your UK citizenship is nearly in the bag, and the kids are dual citizens, what's to stop you from going go the US for a couple of years to secure your husband's US citizenship, then having property in both places?  Set yourselves up to give your kids both experiences?

That's shitty though that they don't pick out personal gifts for your kids and that they don't seem to be bothered either way but maybe it'll improve with age? I was wondering if maybe it was just a Brit thing as I feel like there are so many more people over here not as close/overly affectionate with their families than what I was used to in the US, but that might just be who I've personally come into contact with as I know there are obviously many contradictions to that on both sides.

We are the only ones I know with grandparents like this.  My mom came for my daughter's first birthday and we got to go on our first date night one year and one day after her birth!  (You'll be proud to know we went to a trampoline park for our date).  Luckily now we have a nursery, we have lots of people we can call.  Plus friends who would be happy to help if needed.

Did your family think this desire to adventure would be something that you'd eventually grow out of?

No, because they never had. I love my family a lot and we have good relationships, but I've come to realise that we are a bit unusual because we often go months without communicating, but then we have a long phone conversation or a visit and it's like we were never apart. I just spent a week in Scotland with my dad and we had a great time, but before that the last time I'd spoken to him was several months ago. I know my mother in law thinks its weird that we don't communicate more regularly but that's just how we are. So my family has always been supportive of me wanting to live far away from them and have never given me any guilt or grief about it. On the contrary, they're excited when I go somewhere new because it gives them a chance to come visit me. In the 9 years I've lived in the UK, my mom has visited me three times (and will be here at Christmas for visit number 4), my dad's been here 5 times not including the recent Scotland trip, and my aunt and uncle have visited three times. I've only been back to the US twice. My mom and my brother also visited when I lived in Japan. Their attitude definitely makes it easier for me to say that I'm not planning to return to the US.

I left my hometown at age 19 and moved 750 miles away to Houston where my new husband started a new job. When I was 21, I had my son and by age 23, I was single again. I could have returned back to my hometown when my marriage broke down but Houston was where I made my home. At age 25, the son and I moved to England because that's where my second husband lived and later on it was where my two other children were born.

Wherever I have lived, I have been pretty happy and I took to my foreign residence pretty much right away. The only time I struggled a bit was when my husband's work took him to Europe for 290 days a year and we only saw each other 70-ish days a year for many years. It was difficult being alone so much in a foreign country with three very young children but I managed. I was happy to spend the rest of my life in England and believed in my heart that I would never return to the US. Never say never.

My husband's career is in telecoms and in 2000, it had a spectacular bust worldwide. It didn't affect us until 2002 but by 2004, we had exhausted every penny in our savings and my husband couldn't find enough work to keep our business and our home and were declared bankrupt. We had no choice but to return to my childhood home in Texas that I left when I was 19 and started our lives over with my father's help. As soon as my husband got his green card, he found work right away but we lived in five different cities in three different states over five years with his jobs. We ended up back in Houston and have been here for nine years.

My husband took to living in the US right away. He knew from the moment he touched ground in 2004 that the US was for him. In fact, he didn't visit England for the first seven years of our life in the US. It wasn't because we didn't have the means but because he didn't feel the desire to return. He said he would never move back to England. But again, never say never.

In 2016, his parents came for a short visit and said it would be their last due to their health issues and the high cost of their holiday health insurance. We both noticed that his mother especially seemed physically frail and they both seemed significantly older to us. In an instant, my husband declared that he wanted to go back to England indefinitely to be with his parents. I lost my mother in 1981 and my father in 2011 so I completely understand that need to be with them. I had been toying with the idea of moving back to England and I rejoined this forum for that reason, in the event we would move back around 2019 or so. He was interested in the idea of returning but never 100% on board but this past Christmas visit with his parents changed his mind. It also put our 50+ future into a clearer perspective.

We entered 2017 absolutely determined to make that move back to England ASAP. Let me tell you, that it has been one hell of a roller coaster ride.

We decided that we want to take nothing to England but a few sentimental items so we decided to down-size and started getting rid of crap so we could move from a house to an apartment close to our youngest child's high school (she graduates in 2019). But...

*My middle child was going to be moving to UT Austin but he didn't get into his desired program so he's still at home with us commuting to UofH.

*My oldest son has three young children (ages 5 and 1-year-old twins) and he split up with his partner and moved back in with us. We figured he would be with us for a few weeks but on the day the twins turned one-year-old, their mother declared that she didn't want to mother her children anymore and left Houston to live with her new boyfriend in Wisconsin. She abandoned them on their freaking birthday. My three grandchildren live with us now.

*My husband had decided that when we move to England, he would retire from the telecoms industry and be fully self-employed as a professional photographer. His retirement came early in June, when he was fired from his job in a three minute telephone call. He had never been written up or cautioned or anything. They gave the flimsy excuse that "the sales team" had felt he had let them down. But the "sales team" and his two bosses gave him written glowing recommendations. We have since discovered that the company is in financial decline. They fired him so he wouldn't have a severance package but he can at least be eligible for unemployment.

*My oldest son, father of the grandchildren, lost his job due to Hurricane Harvey as the business suffered devastating flooding.

FFS. Best laid plans and all...

The longest answer ever to the question of "When did you realise?" in wanting to stay for good is that it was immediately wherever I've been. The real question for me is: "When did you realize you wanted to go?" And that answer is gradually.

Basically, life is fluid.

You may think everything is perfect and love it now but that can change and you'll feel differently. But you may also hate it now but something could make you love it and never want it to change.




   

Lorena, I'm speechless!!!!  When it rains, it pours, right?  You guys must be due some good luck any day now!!

Now we have a mortgage, so I have to qualify every "we live debt-free" statement with "except for the mortgage". 

I probably think about this all wrong but I don't consider a mortgage being in debt as long as the property's valuation is at leassst what your mortgage is worth or more. A house is an asset that would offset your mortgage and continually (hopefully, in most cases) appreciate in value. But like I said, I might just be thinking about this in the wrong way.

  (You'll be proud to know we went to a trampoline park for our date). 

Can confirm : Very proud 

I have a feeling I'll be in the minority here. I'd move back to the US in a heartbeat. Truthfully, I'm probably the least likely person to ever move abroad  - I'm a homebody, don't like change, and I'm extremely close to my family. My husband is the reason I'm here. With his job (British Army), we have to be here in the UK right now. However, he doesn't want to be in the army forever. When he gets out, we can go wherever we want. As of when he wants to get out, he's not exactly sure yet. We're taking it day by day.

I talk to my mom nearly every day. I'm close to all my family. Conversely, my husband's family is smaller than mine and they're not as close. Everyone kind of does their own thing. This is really evident around the holidays. However, he is very close to his grandparents, especially his Nan. His Grandad passed away over the summer, which was the first big loss he's ever experienced. There isn't as much family support over here.

My parents are in their early 70s and, while they're very young at heart and healthy, I also realize that they're not getting any younger. I worry about them. And the rest of my family. I really think I have separation anxiety. Sometimes it's easier than other times.

I feel like with my background, I have more prospects in the US. There is no equivalent job here to what I did in the US. Figuring out what I'm qualified to do or what I'm suitable for here has been tricky. It's been a struggle.

I love the home we've made together and there are so many wonderful things about the UK that I'd definitely miss if we moved back. I have some fantastic memories and have met some great people. I would never trade the experience! At the end of the day though, it's just not where my heart truly is. I just know. I've never felt 100% settled here. Not that I feel uncomfortable, but being at home and being at church are the places here I feel most comfortable. He knows how I feel. Being away has really made me appreciate the US more- grass is always greener? I know some probably feel the exact opposite, but that's just how it is for me.

but I've come to realise that we are a bit unusual because we often go months without communicating, but then we have a long phone conversation or a visit and it's like we were never apart.

What I think weirded me out a bit was that I thought I would talk to my parents more! When I first moved, I think we spoke weekly. 4 years later and I can literally go a month or more without a proper phone conversation (just a casual text here and there or a quick phone call to answer a question). I rarely talk to my dad or one of my sisters/her family but when I'm back for a visit, we can pick back up right where we left so I can totally relate. Lucky as well that my parents do come and visit. One of my sisters wants to take her family so bad but it's just sooo expensive (my niece and nephew literally have told them every time they asked that they'd rather come visit me and see England than go to Disney...)

I definitely share that mindset of the more places we go, the more places they can come visit and I think they like that too! Glad you have such a supportive family as I've definitely heard of other people having family that did nothing but guilt them!

I left my hometown at age 19 and moved 750 miles away to Houston where my new husband started a new job. When I was 21, I had my son and by age 23, I was single again. I could have returned back to my hometown when my marriage broke down but Houston was where I made my home. At age 25, the son and I moved to England because that's where my second husband lived and later on it was where my two other children were born.

Wherever I have lived, I have been pretty happy and I took to my foreign residence pretty much right away. The only time I struggled a bit was when my husband's work took him to Europe for 290 days a year and we only saw each other 70-ish days a year for many years. It was difficult being alone so much in a foreign country with three very young children but I managed. I was happy to spend the rest of my life in England and believed in my heart that I would never return to the US. Never say never.

My husband's career is in telecoms and in 2000, it had a spectacular bust worldwide. It didn't affect us until 2002 but by 2004, we had exhausted every penny in our savings and my husband couldn't find enough work to keep our business and our home and were declared bankrupt. We had no choice but to return to my childhood home in Texas that I left when I was 19 and started our lives over with my father's help. As soon as my husband got his green card, he found work right away but we lived in five different cities in three different states over five years with his jobs. We ended up back in Houston and have been here for nine years.

My husband took to living in the US right away. He knew from the moment he touched ground in 2004 that the US was for him. In fact, he didn't visit England for the first seven years of our life in the US. It wasn't because we didn't have the means but because he didn't feel the desire to return. He said he would never move back to England. But again, never say never.

In 2016, his parents came for a short visit and said it would be their last due to their health issues and the high cost of their holiday health insurance. We both noticed that his mother especially seemed physically frail and they both seemed significantly older to us. In an instant, my husband declared that he wanted to go back to England indefinitely to be with his parents. I lost my mother in 1981 and my father in 2011 so I completely understand that need to be with them. I had been toying with the idea of moving back to England and I rejoined this forum for that reason, in the event we would move back around 2019 or so. He was interested in the idea of returning but never 100% on board but this past Christmas visit with his parents changed his mind. It also put our 50+ future into a clearer perspective.

We entered 2017 absolutely determined to make that move back to England ASAP. Let me tell you, that it has been one hell of a roller coaster ride.

We decided that we want to take nothing to England but a few sentimental items so we decided to down-size and started getting rid of crap so we could move from a house to an apartment close to our youngest child's high school (she graduates in 2019). But...

*My middle child was going to be moving to UT Austin but he didn't get into his desired program so he's still at home with us commuting to UofH.

*My oldest son has three young children (ages 5 and 1-year-old twins) and he split up with his partner and moved back in with us. We figured he would be with us for a few weeks but on the day the twins turned one-year-old, their mother declared that she didn't want to mother her children anymore and left Houston to live with her new boyfriend in Wisconsin. She abandoned them on their freaking birthday. My three grandchildren live with us now.

*My husband had decided that when we move to England, he would retire from the telecoms industry and be fully self-employed as a professional photographer. His retirement came early in June, when he was fired from his job in a three minute telephone call. He had never been written up or cautioned or anything. They gave the flimsy excuse that "the sales team" had felt he had let them down. But the "sales team" and his two bosses gave him written glowing recommendations. We have since discovered that the company is in financial decline. They fired him so he wouldn't have a severance package but he can at least be eligible for unemployment.

*My oldest son, father of the grandchildren, lost his job due to Hurricane Harvey as the business suffered devastating flooding.

FFS. Best laid plans and all...

The longest answer ever to the question of "When did you realise?" in wanting to stay for good is that it was immediately wherever I've been. The real question for me is: "When did you realize you wanted to go?" And that answer is gradually.

Basically, life is fluid.

You may think everything is perfect and love it now but that can change and you'll feel differently. But you may also hate it now but something could make you love it and never want it to change.




 

I have no words...My heart goes out to you and your family! If I had any luck to give you, I would! Definitely sending positive vibes your way! Is there any way your husband can fight the fact that he's been fired or is it that he'd just spend more money than he could even get from battling it?

Agree with KF that when it rains it pours!

I have a feeling I'll be in the minority here. I'd move back to the US in a heartbeat. Truthfully, I'm probably the least likely person to ever move abroad  - I'm a homebody, don't like change, and I'm extremely close to my family. My husband is the reason I'm here. With his job (British Army), we have to be here in the UK right now. However, he doesn't want to be in the army forever. When he gets out, we can go wherever we want. As of when he wants to get out, he's not exactly sure yet. We're taking it day by day.

I talk to my mom nearly every day. I'm close to all my family. Conversely, my husband's family is smaller than mine and they're not as close. Everyone kind of does their own thing. This is really evident around the holidays. However, he is very close to his grandparents, especially his Nan. His Grandad passed away over the summer, which was the first big loss he's ever experienced. There isn't as much family support over here.

My parents are in their early 70s and, while they're very young at heart and healthy, I also realize that they're not getting any younger. I worry about them. And the rest of my family. I really think I have separation anxiety. Sometimes it's easier than other times.

I feel like with my background, I have more prospects in the US. There is no equivalent job here to what I did in the US. Figuring out what I'm qualified to do or what I'm suitable for here has been tricky. It's been a struggle.

I love the home we've made together and there are so many wonderful things about the UK that I'd definitely miss if we moved back. I have some fantastic memories and have met some great people. I would never trade the experience! At the end of the day though, it's just not where my heart truly is. I just know. I've never felt 100% settled here. Not that I feel uncomfortable, but being at home and being at church are the places here I feel most comfortable. He knows how I feel. Being away has really made me appreciate the US more- grass is always greener? I know some probably feel the exact opposite, but that's just how it is for me.

There's nothing wrong with feeling the way you do! My parents are mid-late 60's and even though you wouldn't know by looking at them, I too know they aren't getting any younger and it's tough being far away in that situation. Like I said, my question shouldn't necessarily have been phrased "when did you know you didn't want to go back" and more "when did you know which place was the right one for you" or something along those lines. For you, you clearly know that this isn't what you want permanently and that's totally fine!

I probably think about this all wrong but I don't consider a mortgage being in debt as long as the property's valuation is at leassst what your mortgage is worth or more. A house is an asset that would offset your mortgage and continually (hopefully, in most cases) appreciate in value. But like I said, I might just be thinking about this in the wrong way.

I view it that way, too, but I'm not sure how others see it.  "Debt is debt"?  But our down payment was hefty enough, so we definitely have equity. 

... we often go months without communicating, but then we have a long phone conversation or a visit and it's like we were never apart. I just spent a week in Scotland with my dad and we had a great time, but before that the last time I'd spoken to him was several months ago. I know my mother in law thinks its weird that we don't communicate more regularly but that's just how we are.

I have been communicating with my younger sister and my mother reasonably frequently lately using Line app.  But otherwise, we haven't had a whole lot of contact since the few weeks after my dad passed away in 2013.  My family has sort of fallen apart. But I have individual relationships with some of the individual members.

I go back and fourth.

I don't love the U.K. I moved here for my husband and it was the only option because he has a daughter from a previous relationship. Now that we have her full time, we have options.

But it's not something I could now. I want citizenship so I don't have to go through immigration ever again. My mom worded it right the other day, your visas are an investment you move now and you lose out.

I miss my mom terribly. Lately, she's had some health issues and it scares me to think I can't be there for it. She has my dad, but he's older than her (she's 56 he's 63). My brother has sadly turned into that guy who seemingly only cares about his in laws and never comes around.

My mother in law also isn't the doting grandmother that my mom is, so that makes it difficult too. It's been better since we've had my step daughter full time, but still not brilliant. My mom sends Lilly gifts for every holiday, big or small. She's lucky if she gets a card from my mother in law for birthdays.

However, then there's the dilemma if we did move back we'd be taking our daughter away from her mum's side of the family. Her Nan from that side is very close to her. And after her mum passed away, it's all she's got from her mum.

My husband isn't set on America, but doesn't want to stay in England. He hates it here. He's luckily working for a large American company that's international, which could give us some opportunities. He's already traveling for training courses, which is neat.

I really don't know what we want to do. My heart screams to go back home to be close to my parents. My brain screams no, doing another international move with a child involved isn't going to be fun.


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