Self-employment financials/visa refusal

As mentioned on the priority thread, my husband and I received our second spouse visa refusal today. The first one was because I was in the UK, which was obviously our error, but we passed on all else at that time.

The second refusal was for our self-employed financials, which we updated with all relevant documents. I would like to attach two photos of the letter we received (it's long) but can't figure out how. My husband tells me all the "missing documents" cited in the refusal were included in our application. Could someone tell me how to add the pictures?

A couple more questions:
1. Am I allowed to go to the UK for a short visit to see my husband and get some winter clothes?
2. If we decide to reapply or appeal, do I need to be in the States, or can I be somewhere closer to my husband in the UK (but not in the UK)?

Thank you for any help you can provide!

So sorry to hear this Fingers!  Big hugs!

Download the Tapatalk app to upload photos.

Self employed financials are lengthy and specific, we can help you through this.

I wouldn't attempt a visit after two refusals.  Could you meet in a France or Iceland for an exchange?

You need to apply from a country you have permission to live in.  If no other visas, the US it is I'm afraid.

Again, big big hugs!

So sorry to hear this Fingers!  Big hugs!

Download the Tapatalk app to upload photos.

Self employed financials are lengthy and specific, we can help you through this.

I wouldn't attempt a visit after two refusals.  Could you meet in a France or Iceland for an exchange?

You need to apply from a country you have permission to live in.  If no other visas, the US it is I'm afraid.

Again, big big hugs!

Great, thank you! We're exploring options, so that's very helpful. Is the Tapatalk app on this website somewhere or do I go online to get it? Sorry, computers were invented after I was born.

As mentioned on the priority thread, my husband and I received our second spouse visa refusal today. The first one was because I was in the UK, which was obviously our error, but we passed on all else at that time.

The second refusal was for our self-employed financials, which we updated with all relevant documents. I would like to attach two photos of the letter we received (it's long) but can't figure out how. My husband tells me all the "missing documents" cited in the refusal were included in our application. Could someone tell me how to add the pictures?

Most people actually just type up the relevant parts of the letter rather than try to post a picture of it, but you can try the Tapatalk upload option .

Do you have the first refusal letter as well? It may actually be that you would have been refused for financials before, but because you weren't even eligible to apply for the visa from the UK in the first place, they just gave that as the reason for the refusal.

Sometimes you have to read between the lines with the refusal wording... it can seem like you were refused for one reason when actually it was for something completely different.

A couple more questions:
1. Am I allowed to go to the UK for a short visit to see my husband and get some winter clothes?
2. If we decide to reapply or appeal, do I need to be in the States, or can I be somewhere closer to my husband in the UK (but not in the UK)?

Thank you for any help you can provide!

1. No, with 2 refusals for a spousal visa already, if you tried to visit, you would likely be refused entry and put straight back on a plane home again. You would really need to apply for a visitor visa before attempting to travel to the UK, and you would need to show really strong ties to your home country (a home, a job, a life there) to show you would not attempt to try to live in the UK with your husband.

2. Yes, you can only reapply or appeal from a country where you are legally resident or are a citizen of.

Appealing will take about a year and will likely not be successful unless you can prove that you provided all the documents but Sheffield overlooked them and mistakenly refused the visa.

It would be much easier and quicker to just reapply from the US again.

Great, thank you! We're exploring options, so that's very helpful. Is the Tapatalk app on this website somewhere or do I go online to get it? Sorry, computers were invented after I was born.

It's a phone app... not sure if you can use it from a computer.

But here's the site: https://www.tapatalk.com/

Great, thank you! We're exploring options, so that's very helpful. Is the Tapatalk app on this website somewhere or do I go online to get it? Sorry, computers were invented after I was born.

Or you can use a hosting site such as Flickr.

Yup, might be quicker to type...  depending of course on the individual.   

As mentioned on the priority thread, my husband and I received our second spouse visa refusal today. The first one was because I was in the UK, which was obviously our error, but we passed on all else at that time.

The second refusal was for our self-employed financials, which we updated with all relevant documents. I would like to attach two photos of the letter we received (it's long) but can't figure out how. My husband tells me all the "missing documents" cited in the refusal were included in our application. Could someone tell me how to add the pictures?

A couple more questions:
1. Am I allowed to go to the UK for a short visit to see my husband and get some winter clothes?
2. If we decide to reapply or appeal, do I need to be in the States, or can I be somewhere closer to my husband in the UK (but not in the UK)?

Thank you for any help you can provide!

You can also use the "insert image" button via computer. It's got the Mona Lisa looking picture on it-second row, first on the left. Of course that requires taking the picture and then getting it onto your computer, which may be more trouble than its worth.

Big, big hugs to you!!!! I know these marvelous experts will help you get it all sorted out...and don't forget, you may not be able to go there, but he can certainly come to you!

You can also use the "insert image" button via computer. It's got the Mona Lisa looking picture on it-second row, first on the left. Of course that requires taking the picture and then getting it onto your computer, which may be more trouble than its worth.

Big, big hugs to you!!!! I know these marvelous experts will help you get it all sorted out...and don't forget, you may not be able to go there, but he can certainly come to you!

Yes, no worries, he's coming. He just really hoped I could come home, lovely man. I'm sure we'll just apply again...oy.

You know, as I look over our first refusal, I don't see the financials mentioned at all.

Here's what we received today:

You do not meet the eligibility financial requirement of paragraphs E-ECP.3.1 to 3.4 because your sponsor is not exempt for the financial requirements as defined paragraph E-ECP.3.3. I am not able to take into account any potential employment you have available to you in the UK or any offers of financial support from third parties. In order to get the financial requirements of the Rules your sponsor needs a gross income of at least 18,600 per annum. I note fro your application that you are relying on your sponsor's self-employment and from earnings from his pension. In respect if his self employment, the specified evidence stated in the Immigration Rules that you must provide are:

7. In respect of self-employment in the UK as a partner, as a sole trader or in a franchise all of the following must be provided:
(a) Evidence of the amount of tax payable, paid and unpaid for the last full financial year.
(b) The following documents for the last full financial year, or for the last two such years (where those documents show necessary level of gross profit as an average of those two years):
[There is not (c) listed]
(d) A partnership or franchise agreement signed by the relevant parties to the agreement.
As you have failed to provide the specified evidence as listed above, I am unable to accept your sponsor's self-employment earnings.

With regards to your sponsor's pension earnings, the Immigration Specify that you must provide
10. In respect of non-employment income all the following evidence, in relation to the form of income relied upon, must be provided:
(e) To evidence a pension:
(i) Official documentation from:
(1) The Department for Work and Pensions (in respect of the Basic Pension and the Additional or Second State Pension) or other government department or agency, including the Veterans Agency;
(2) An overseas pension authority; or
(3) A pension company,
confirming pension entitlement and amount (and, where applicable, reflecting any funds withdrawn from the pension account or fund).
(ii) At least one personal bank statement in the 12-month period prior to the date of application showing payment of the pension into the person's account.
(iii) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (i), War Disablement Pension, War Widow's/Widower's Pension and any other equivalent payment for life made under the War Pensions Scheme, the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme or the Armed Forces Attributable Benefits Scheme may be treated as a pension unless excluded under paragraph 21 of this Appendix.
As you have failed to provide the specified evidence listed above I am unable to accept these earnings.
I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.19D0 of Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules. (E-ECP.3.1).

The above is typed as is. I thought there were a few typos in what was written but maybe I misunderstand. I can't speak for the self-employment stuff, but the pension stuff was there, a statement from my husband's pension company and the bank statement showing the deposit. Argh.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

Can you list all the documents that were included for the self-employment income and also for the pension income (including dates and date ranges of it all)?

I imagine that's the main thing they are referring to as being missing - the self-employment documents are VERY specific ... if even one of the 13 or so required documents is missing or doesn't show the correct information, the visa will be refused.

Also, if you are combining self-employment with another category (in your case, pension income), only the pension income received in the same period as the self-employment can be counted, AND the pension income must still be being received at the time of application.

So, for example, if you used his self-employment income from April 2016 to April 2017, only the pension income received between April 2016 and April 2017 can be considered, and the pension income must be still being received on the date of application.

What dates does his financial year run from and to, and how long has he been receiving the pension income for?

From the financial requirements document:

9.3.6. Income under Category F or Category G can be combined with income from salaried and non-salaried employment, non-employment income and pension income in order to meet the financial requirement. However, unlike with other Categories, these sources of income must fall within the relevant financial year(s) in order to be included. Under Category F or Category G, all sources of income must fall within the financial year(s) relied on and must still be a source of income at the time of application. For example, to count income from property rental the income must have been received during the relevant financial year(s) and the property must still be owned by the relevant person at the date of application.

Oh, one other thing:

How are you meeting the requirement for future income in the UK?

For example:
- where was his self-employment income earned?
- if it wasn’t in the UK, does he have a guarantee it will continue in the UK?
- if not, does he have a job offer or has he started a job in the UK paying at least £18,600?
- or will you be relying on his pension income in the UK instead of self-employment?
- if so, how much pension income does he receive per year? Is it more than £18,600?


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Oh, one other thing:

How are you meeting the requirement for future income in the UK?

For example:
- where was his self-employment income earned?
- if it wasn’t in the UK, does he have a guarantee it will continue in the UK?
- if not, does he have a job offer or has he started a job in the UK paying at least £18,600?
- or will you be relying on his pension income in the UK instead of self-employment?
- if so, how much pension income does he receive per year? Is it more than £18,600?


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I'm having my husband help me pull all of the answers together to make sure I get them right. He does consulting work for a university, primarily one university in the UK. We were aware of the tax year thing, which is why we didn't use our combined incomes as my financial year is US, Jan-Dec, and his is Australia. I'm not sure if his pension matches his self-employment tax years. I'll check.

If they didn't understand our paperwork, why weren't we contacted? So many other people are when something seems to be amiss.

Thank you!

You cannot use your combined incomes anyway because you do not have the right to work in the UK yet... unless you already have a visa that allows you to work in the UK, they are not allowed to consider your self-employment income at all for this visa.

They don’t have to contact you for extra documents - if there are too many missing or from what you’ve provided, your situation doesn’t appear to meet the requirement, they can just refuse the visa.

Basically what you need to show is:

- his last full financial year of self-employment income in Australia (so whatever the financial year is in Australia) was at least £18,600 after expenses but before taxes

- he has guaranteed income of at least £18,600 in the UK for the foreseeable future... either by way of evidence of guaranteed, on-going self-employment contracts in the UK, or a new job in the UK, or other means of income.


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Just doing a bit of Googling... am I right in thinking the Australian financial year is July 1st to June 30th?

In which case, for both of your applications, you used the July 1st 2015 - June 30th 2016 financial year?

(As I assume he wouldn’t have had time to file his taxes for July 1st 2016 - June 30th 2017,  and get all of the tax documents back from the Australian government before you submitted the second application)


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