NHS fee to double

The union leader Bob Crow was one of the famous cases, he earned 145k but refused to give his low rent council house up. There will be lots on the web on this if you want a read. Have a look for MPs buying council houses too

In Italy, they have to declare their earning every year and are removed from their house when they earn a certain amount to allow another family to live there. The UK will never get to this unless the voting system changes to each vote in an election.

My goodness, there's something that Sirius and I agree on!   What the hell was Bob Crow thinking?  He certainly didn't need the money, and with that one stupid action has convinced the entire country that most of the people living in council houses are on £145 k a year.  And sitting around watching giant LCD tvs waiting to cash the next check.

The truth is that most benefit recipients are actually working and just can't feed their kids in the slave wages most people are on.  Here's something that will disgust you from today's Metro

Call me cynical, but that's how the government wants it. Those in power want and need a class of people wholly dependent upon them - it gives those in power MORE power and a solid block of voters come election time. Then, they have their built-in boogeyman (the guy who comes along and suggests a hand up rather than a hand out) who wants to come and "take away their money". These elites are all too happy to take away from Peter and give it to Paul because what do they care, they make their salary and live high on the hog as a result.

  They didn't hide that this was what they were doing. The Labour government, who invented Tax Credits, were quite open about that and I read that Blair called them a "vote winner". He chose Brown's idea for a benefit called Tax Credit, over the new welfare system ideas of his Minister of Welfare Reform, Frank Field MP, which would have focused on helping people get off benefits.

Frank Field then resigned his ministerial post. He called Brown/Blair's Tax Credits benefit, a poverty trap.

Tax Credits
i.e. - lose your job, take a lower paid job ASAP and claim Tax Credits.
Get a better paid job and stop your Tax Credit claim.
At the end of the tax year, you have to pay thousands back to Tax Credits as Tax Credits are based on annual earnings.
OR
-stay on benefits, don't more hours or take promotion and keep your Tax Credits, but when the children leave home/go to university, Child Tax Credits all stop and the parents are left in poverty and little work experience.


However after Tax credits were invented, the UK's annual Welfare Bill then became more than the government takes in income tax for the first time ever, and on the Labour's watch. They did then start to bring in benefit cuts i.e. medicals for those who claimed they were too sick to work or say they are disabled, and they appointed a private company called ATOS to carry out these medicals.  Before they could implement other benefit cuts, they got voted out.

The new government got that same Labour Minister who resigned, to help them overhaul the welfare state. These new laws are through parliament and the Lords and are on their way in as they are being rolled out across the country. Mixed reaction on the welfare forums; some can't wait as they will get more money with the new benefit taper when they work more; others trying to avoid being moved over as long as they can to avoid having to work.

These welfare laws also seem to end the European Court of Justice Ruling that said the UK must pay the Tax Credit benefit to low earning EEA citizens in the UK for every child they have that still lives in their own EEA country (Child Tax Credits) and for their spouse who still lives in their own EEA country (Working Tax Credits).

In addition to the welfare reform laws - On the back of the shock in 2014, that in 2013 nearly six billion pounds was given in the Tax Credit benefit alone to those who were a foreign national or who were a foreign national when they applied for a NINo, the up to 2 child limit for benefits was announced. Announced in Parliament during the budget in 2015 and stating that this would mean that now there would be more benefit money for these parents in France, Germany and Sweden. No limit was brought in for the number of children they can claim childcare for when both parents work.

The truth is that most benefit recipients are actually working and just can't feed their kids in the slave wages most people are on.  Here's something that will disgust you from today's Metro

What did you think would happen with uncontrolled immigration?

What did you think would happen with uncontrolled immigration?

You think illegal wages are due to immigration? Where is the data supporting that?

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What did you think would happen with uncontrolled immigration?

I assume you are talking about immigration from the EU? That has been a huge success for our economy as those immigrants tend to be young, healthy and childless.  They are so busy working and paying taxes that they are overwhelming "givers" to society.  They support the native population who are old and sick or have children who need expensive schooling.  In this way, it's the native British people who are actually "takers".  Not to mention the great cultural changes brought in by immigrants, like decent food and customer service. 

And besides, study after study has shown that immigration doesn't bring down wages except for a small amount at the very low end. 
 10 years of completely static wage growth can't be blamed on immigrants. 

And besides, study after study has shown that immigration doesn't bring down wages except for a small amount at the very low end. 
 10 years of completely static wage growth can't be blamed on immigrants.

Legal immigration? Good

Illegal immigration? Bad.

Any study that suggests otherwise is bunk.

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Legal immigration? Good

Illegal immigration? Bad.

Any study that suggests otherwise is bunk.

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LOL, the European half of my forebears came to the US from the UK illegally, and a study shows we've all worked and paid taxes. So if I migrate there, am I correcting a "bad" status by going back where we came from, or loosing a hereditary working, tax paying criminal on you?

LOL, the European half of my forebears came to the US from the UK illegally, and a study shows we've all worked and paid taxes. So if I migrate there, am I correcting a "bad" status by going back where we came from, or loosing a hereditary working, tax paying criminal on you?

If you like it.....it's good.
If you don't like it.....it's bad.

Heck, according to my mother....her grandfather jumped ship on the east coast and changed his name to disappear. Yep......evil person that mother of mine....not.

Everybody has there opinions.....mine is right of course, yours is wrong (says a prejudiced person).

LOL, the European half of my forebears came to the US from the UK illegally, and a study shows we've all worked and paid taxes. So if I migrate there, am I correcting a "bad" status by going back where we came from, or loosing a hereditary working, tax paying criminal on you?

Worked and paid taxes eh? How does someone in a country illegally pay taxes, exactly? In the US you need a social security number or tax identification number to file income taxes and have payroll taxes withheld from paychecks. How does an illegal alien go about that?

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Heck, according to my mother....her grandfather jumped ship on the east coast and changed his name to disappear. Yep......evil person that mother of mine....not.

Everybody has there opinions

Not sure about your mom, but your grandfather, by your statements, was (is?) a criminal.

And yes, my opinion is that being in a country illegally is wrong. Guess that makes me a bigot in some people's eyes. I'm ok with that, I don't seek their approval anyway.

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Ya know, I spent decades traipsing around the American Southwest and Midwest. There are so very many little towns out there that are moribund or already ghost towns that used to be thriving, productive little communities with schools and main-streets, and churches, etc. It's a huge, 3/4th empty country.  You can drive for hours and not see an inhabited building. It's really sad, traveling the back roads and seeing what America used to be. And now all the buildings are crumbling and the occasional windmill is just a ruin.

So, if there are people here illegally who are making a serious go of trying to make a life, why not put them on a probation, and do what they did during the WPA for some of the starving in the cities?  Recruit them, give them some of that unused, unwanted land to farm or ranch (as a lease), or assign them out to a farmer/rancher as hired hands, and let them try to make a go of it? Spend the insane amount of money being funneled into "tracking and enforcement" elsewhere on something more productive. Bring back those little towns by having immigrants rehab the buildings as compensation for living in them. Provide the vitally necessary farm labor that the US is now critically short on. Give them a chance? It's not as if there's not room.

My ancestors arrived back when it was sink-or-swim and most of them made a decent life for themselves. Got married, raised kids, served in the Armed Forces against the Hun and later the Nazis/Tojo, paid taxes, voted, sent their kids to school. Most of them arrived with almost no money and one suitcase of clothing. Unlike today, back then you could be a common laborer or a tradesperson and still enter the US of A and make a go of it through hard work. And the country did profit from the people who did just that.

Now you have to be a highly-educated professional or you're not welcome. Which is crazy, as the farmers can't get labor - and no, Americans won't  do that kind of work.  So let someone who wants to do it in to do it. And if they fly right and do well, let 'em stay. It's not like there's no room. The population is aging, the tax base necessary to support the boomers in old age has shrunk alarmingly, and the pool of people available to do manual labor has pretty much evaporated.

And there are good people begging at the door for the chance to come in and do any work at all, but who are turned away?  That's just craziness.

Worked and paid taxes eh? How does someone in a country illegally pay taxes, exactly? In the US you need a social security number or tax identification number to file income taxes and have payroll taxes withheld from paychecks. How does an illegal alien go about that?

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You just need a TIN to file and pay taxes and they are easy to come by. When I was a volunteer tax preparer for the IRS in the Houston area we were trained to check picture id but to not question where a TIN came from or if it was still valid. This was after I retired and looking to do a bit of charity work. Those whose taxes I did that I was sure were illegal (old letter from a lawyer with a TIN ) tended to be already in the system as they had been to us before. (The local library provided a room for us to set up our laptops each year for 3 months).

The thing is that while such folks stay out of trouble and employed they pay full FICA (social security and Medicare taxes) but they will never get the benefits of those payment years. We are still good friends with a family who came from Uruguay on a visitor visa in 2003 with their 10 year old son and are still living there illegally. Their son went to college working part time, got a degree and has been working full time for a while and long since left. Our friends have bought a house and have a mortgage and are pinning their hopes on their son getting citizenship and sponsoring them. The son is now here legally as a “Dreamer”.  They are in their late 50’s now with no pension or Medicare to look forward to at age 65.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/19/news/economy/undocumented-immigrant-taxes/index.html


“Nearly half, or 3.4 million, of those workers paid Social Security taxes, according to 2014 estimates from the Social Security administration. And while the agency doesn't have a figure for how much this group paid in taxes that year, it said that unauthorized immigrant workers and their employers contributed $13 billion in payroll taxes in 2010, its most current estimate.”

Worked and paid taxes eh? How does someone in a country illegally pay taxes, exactly? In the US you need a social security number or tax identification number to file income taxes and have payroll taxes withheld from paychecks. How does an illegal alien go about that?

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You're going to need to revisit your information. Social Security cards didn't exist before 1935-36. So anyone that got here for the couple hundred years prior to that didn't need one to work any more than anyone else did, but they certainly paid taxes in one fashion or other.

The other info people have posted covers TINs and so on pretty well, and are on the nose with subcontractor pay draws I've processed as a builder's office manager.

https://www.ssa.gov/history/hfaq.html

So, that brings up the real question: what's your cutoff date for calling people criminal illegals? How far back does your personal time frame go, and what body of authority's standards are you basing that on? Just for example, the other half of my family might call anyone that came here from Europe and didn't check in with the local Native American governing body to be an illegal immigrant.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/19/news/economy/undocumented-immigrant-taxes/index.html


“Nearly half, or 3.4 million, of those workers paid Social Security taxes, according to 2014 estimates from the Social Security administration. And while the agency doesn't have a figure for how much this group paid in taxes that year, it said that unauthorized immigrant workers and their employers contributed $13 billion in payroll taxes in 2010, its most current estimate.”

"After a brief hiatus that coincided with the worst of the economic recession, Texas’s illegal alien population is
on the rise again. There are about 1,810,000 illegal aliens residing in Texas — 70,000 more than resided in the state in 2010 when we estimated the fiscal burden at nearly $8.9 billion annually.

In 2013, illegal immigration cost Texas taxpayers about $12.1 billion annually. That amounts to more than $1,197 for every Texas household headed by a native-born or naturalized U.S. citizen. The taxes paid by illegal aliens — estimated at $1.27 billion per year — do not come close to paying for those outlays, but we include an estimate of revenue from sales taxes, property taxes, alcohol taxes, and cigarette taxes."

Sooooo illegals in the whole of the United States pay $13 billion in taxes, while costing nearly that much in Texas alone. Sounds like a net negative to me.

Not to mention this...

Per the FBI, there were 67,642 murders in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009. Per the GAO, criminal aliens committed 25,064 of them. That means they committed 22 to 37 percent of all murders in the U.S., while being only 3.52 to 8.25 percent of the population.”

Disgusting.

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