Should foreigner ask about benefits?

Why the extreme views, Britwife?  Life isn't so black and white, you know.

I'd like to think that most people can see value in both sides of this debate.  It's not either/or.  There's no winner or loser here.  Or is there?

I'm not being extreme. I'm not saying there is only one side to the story. I am not the one who seems to resent other people having children and I certainly don't resent my taxes going to fund a system of healthcare and social services.

You sure are coming across as extreme...read your posts.

No, I'm just not agreeing with your viewpoint, that's all.

I'm not being extreme. I'm not saying there is only one side to the story. I am not the one who seems to resent other people having children and I certainly don't resent my taxes going to fund a system of healthcare and social services.

I cannot understand where you seem to think that I resent people that have children.  As I have stated clearly before - I have no opinion on other people deciding to have children.

I do however think it is unfair for me to pay for someone else's decision to have children through the taxes I pay.

So effectively I am paying for a child that I have chosen not to have.

There is no reason to say "ok jacky you are right - I am wrong" - I am not saying you are wrong - I am trying to introduce you to a different way of thinking...

What part of my viewpoint are you not agreeing with?

Remind us of your viewpoint again...

Ok Jacky, you know what, have it your way. You're right and I'm wrong. Anyone who has children is a blood sucking leech.  I really hope you never get seriously ill and are unable to work and need NHS care or any kind of social support.

 

Well, obviously.  Having children implies that you had a choice in the matter and that you're choosing to be a cost to others.  Criminal!

Maybe I'm crazy, but I was looking forward to a country with socialized healthcare, because I figured that implied a more village-style approach to  the raising of children.  Apparently there's still plenty of Americanish 'fend for yourself' sentiment, the type of thinking that would, say, lead a childless person to resent having to pay for education.  Nevermind that at some point those kids are going to be the ones doling out the social security.

not to mention the meals on wheels provided to those elderly who have no children to look after them ...

and on that note I am taking my tax draining infant out for a walk! cheerio! 

Oh, and it's about time to get wee drainers from school.  Hey, at least yours aren't costing anyone teacher salaries yet

Why the extreme views, Britwife?  Life isn't so black and white, you know.

I'd like to think that most people can see value in both sides of this debate.  It's not either/or.  There's no winner or loser here. 

Well said, JacChic.  

Well, obviously. Having children implies that you had a choice in the matter and that you're choosing to be a cost to others. Criminal!

It's not the choice to have children - it's the manner in or the circumstances under which the choice is made sometimes.

It's not the choice to have children - it's the manner in or the circumstances under which the choice is made sometimes.

Too right.

not to mention the meals on wheels provided to those elderly who have no children to look after them ...

A common misconception of the breeding populace - that your child will grow up and take care of you in your old age....

Another misconception - that a person who grows to an old age will have to have someone to take care of them or cook for them (meals on wheels)

I agree with peedal.

And yes elly - when you conceive - or have unprotected sex - or however you conceived - you made a choice.  I can't honestly believe that "unplanned pregnancies" were not a choice.  Those people chose to have sex without protection and got pregnant, or forgot to take a pill, or whatever.  

Unless of course someone has immaculate conception - which is the ONLY way to get pregnant without the CHOICE factor...

And Britwife - if you stay at home with your child and don't need government sponsored childcare - then your child does not factor in to this conversation as "tax draining" - so I am not understanding your defensive comments there.

It's not the choice to have children - it's the manner in or the circumstances under which the choice is made sometimes.

Not saying this is the case for anyone here, but just because we "choose" something, it doesn't mean it's a good choice.  I guess that's where personal responsibility becomes a factor - to stand by your personal choices or share the burden with society.

I think as a society, we do stand by parents who choose to go ahead with having a child in difficult circumstances.  I think we, on the outside, have a hard time understanding how someone who already has healthy children would want to have another knowing that the road ahead is going to be a hard one.  It's difficult to walk in someone else's shoes.

  It's difficult to walk in someone else's shoes.

That's fair enough.

A common misconception of the breeding populace - that your child will grow up and take care of you in your old age....

Another misconception - that a person who grows to an old age will have to have someone to take care of them or cook for them (meals on wheels)

I agree with peedal.

And yes elly - when you conceive - or have unprotected sex - or however you conceived - you made a choice.  I can't honestly believe that "unplanned pregnancies" were not a choice.  Those people chose to have sex without protection and got pregnant, or forgot to take a pill, or whatever. 

Unless of course someone has immaculate conception - which is the ONLY way to get pregnant without the CHOICE factor...

And Britwife - if you stay at home with your child and don't need government sponsored childcare - then your child does not factor in to this conversation as "tax draining" - so I am not understanding your defensive comments there.

I think you're misunderstanding both of us.  Of course it's a choice.  My problem is with people who have excessive judgements against people who made that choice.

As for Britwife, her kids will be in school.  And at the moment, maybe she rides a bus that is partly government funded.  Maybe she takes her baby in for checkups.  Maybe she claims tax benefits.  All of these are elements in that grand scheme of government funds leaching.