Just found out that wife qualifies for British citizenship by descent

Here's the details.  We were going to move to Northern Ireland based around my Irish citizenship and using a spouse visa but now it seems we won't have to.

My wife's mother was born in London, England and has an expired British passport that expired in 2009.  She lives in the USA now, but she of course is a British born British citizen.

My wife was born in the USA.  It seems that she qualifies for citizenship through descent.

We're trying to get my wife her passport at the lowest cost possible.

We have her mother's British passport information (Although it expired in 2009).  Would this expired passport number be valid for my wife's passport application?

Unlike Irish citizenship through a Grandparent, where you're not actually a citizen until you apply for it, it seems that the British law is different for children of British-born British citizens.  It seems as though technically my wife already IS a British citizen and has been unknowingly her whole life and just needs to apply for her passport, correct?

So basically my question is if we simply send off the application for her passport with her mother's expired passport number will it be valid or will we lose our money?  Surely, even an expired passport is proof of citizenship.  Or will we need for her mother to get her new passport and THEN fill out my wife's application?

Yes, your wife is already a British citizen and has been since the day she was born .

So, yes, all you need to do is apply for a UK passport for her .

I'm not completely sure of the requirements for the passport application - I think you will need her mother's birth certificate to prove that she is a UK citizen otherwise than by descent (born in the UK) and therefore eligible to pass her UK citizenship down to her daughter.

See here for more info and documents required: https://www.passport.service.gov.uk/overseas/information/usa/first/adult/usa

When was your wife born?

For our son who was born in 2016, the requirements for the passport were his birth certificate, British father's birth certificate, British grandfather's birth certificate, and British grandfather's marriage certificate.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/674893/guidance_for_passport_applications.pdf

**adding info: son was born in the US. Also, the British birth certificates need to be the “long form” that includes the parents information. You can order copies online.

When was your wife born?

1992

1992

Okay, that makes me feel old (my first thought was: how is someone born in 1992 old enough to get married? ).

Okay, so as she was born outside the UK after Jan 1st 1983, according to the documents table, it looks like she will need to provide:
- 2 recent passport photos
- a colour photocopy of any uncancelled US passports she has
- her full birth certificate (showing both child's and parents' details)
- her mother's full birth certificate (showing both the child’s and parents’ details)
If your wife has changed her name:
- evidence of her current name (for example, driver's licence)
- your marriage certificate

She would only need to provide her grandparents' birth certificates if her mother was born after Jan 1st 1983... but as your wife was born in 1992, that won't apply (unless her mother gave birth at age 9!).

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/564950/OS_Guidance_G1_10.16.pdf

Then she will need to submit all the required documents for First British passport > Born or adopted 1 Jan 83 to 30 June 06 (not naturalised or registered). Assuming her mum didn’t register her birth abroad.


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Okay, that makes me feel old (my first thought was: how is someone born in 1992 old enough to get married? ).

People born in the year 2000 turn 18 this year.  <shudder>

I DIDN'T USED TO BE OLD!!!!  DAMNIT!!!!!

Assuming her mum didn’t register her birth abroad.

That's not what registered means in this case.

'Registered' means that they did not have claim to UK citizenship at birth, because either their parent was unable to pass their UK citizenship down to them, or their parent was not a UK citizen at the time of their birth.
However, since then, either:
- the citizenship rules have changed (particularly for children born to British mothers before 1983 or to British fathers before July 2006),
or
- they were born in the UK after 1983 and their parent has become a UK citizen since then,
or
- they were born in the UK to non-British parents but lived there until they were 10
(and there are a few other scenarios)

And so if they are still under 18 and one of the scenarios above applies, they can now qualify for UK citizenship, but only if they apply to register as a British citizen first. In order to register as a UK citizen, it costs about £1,000 and involves filling out form MN1 and sending it off to UKVI. It can take several months to be processed. See: https://www.gov.uk/register-british-citizen

People born in the year 2000 turn 18 this year.  <shudder>

I DIDN'T USED TO BE OLD!!!!  DAMNIT!!!!!

I got carded last week when buying kitchen knives.

The lady seriously wanted proof I was over 18 (I'm in my 30s). I don't drink, gamble, drive here or do anything that requires ID (besides international travel) so I had nothing but my wedding ring (and a few wrinkles) to prove I was over 18.

She let me buy them when I showed her my wedding ring with exasperation, but she still seemed sceptical.

I walked away with an odd feeling of youthful glee and curmudgeon annoyance.

I walked away with an odd feeling of youthful glee and curmudgeon annoyance.

Lol!  Funny!

I had that when I bought super glue once before.  I had ID.  But seriously, my kids have REALLY aged me.  Big time.

There's a "kid" in the office doing a gap year.  You know, he's in the year between Eton College and when he starts Oxford University in the autumn (as we all were at one point).      He turned 19 last weekend.  While I'm "only" 37, technically I turned 19 the year he was born.  And he's a proper grown up.

Though he did ask if anyone had a rubber yesterday really loudly and I DIED laughing like a 12 year old.  Proper laughing!

That's not what registered means in this case.

Ah. Thought it was the register birth abroad. Lol



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That's awesome. They are really picky. We had to go the the passport office in London twice to get my daughter's UK passport!

I feel super old too... I was in my junior year in college in 1992.

Just an update for future reference.  She found out that her mom's expired passport is valid to use.  Like others have said, she's going to need her mom's birth certificate and her mom only has the short form, so she'll be ordering the long form soon.

So I'm also confused because I watched this documentary today:

The first part features a french born girl, who had a French father and a British mother.  The girl has lived in the UK since she was 6.  The theme is basically that this girl isn't able to get British permanent residency because she didn't have private health insurance during her Uni years.  Ok....  But why isn't she already a British citizen like my wife seems to be?  She has a British Mom!  Perhaps the British mother is not British born?  And the documentary didn't mention that, but she certainly has an accent.  I'm so confused as to why this girl doesn't have access to the citizenship, yet my wife seems to.

Just an update for future reference.  She found out that her mom's expired passport is valid to use.  Like others have said, she's going to need her mom's birth certificate and her mom only has the short form, so she'll be ordering the long form soon.

So I'm also confused because I watched this documentary today:

The first part features a french born girl, who had a French father and a British mother.  The girl has lived in the UK since she was 6.  The theme is basically that this girl isn't able to get British permanent residency because she didn't have private health insurance during her Uni years.  Ok....  But why isn't she already a British citizen like my wife seems to be?  She has a British Mom!  Perhaps the British mother is not British born?  And the documentary didn't mention that, but she certainly has an accent.  I'm so confused as to why this girl doesn't have access to the citizenship, yet my wife seems to.

I'm sure we don't have the whole story.  Unfortunately we see this a lot in news articles (inaccuracies and not the whole truth).

And the documentary didn't mention that, but she certainly has an accent.  I'm so confused as to why this girl doesn't have access to the citizenship, yet my wife seems to.

Usually the full story isn't given in the news, and there's some backstory that we aren't privy to which would account for the confusion.

There was an article a few months ago about an American and his British wife who tried to move to the UK. They had one biological child and two adopted children. The biological child had a UK passport but the adopted children could not get UK passports and needed visas because their mother was not born in the UK.

Now, the story implied that the reason the adopted children couldn't get UK passports was because they were adopted, and so the parents were complaining that UKVI were discriminating against adopted children.

However, this isn't the case... American-born children adopted by a UK citizen otherwise than by descent do have claim to UK citizenship (my aunt in the US, a dual-UK/US citizen, has US-born adopted children and they have UK passports). However, if they are adopted by a UK citizen by descent, they don't have claim to UK citizenship. Same goes for biological children born outside the UK... if the parent is a citizen otherwise than by descent, they are UK citizens, but if the parent is a citizen by descent, they are not UK citizens.

It had us all really confused for ages because we couldn't understand how one child could be a UK citizen and the other two not. Surely, since the mother was not born in the UK, none of the children could be UK citizens? Because they should all have the same claim (or not) to UK citizenship.

After some online digging, we eventually found out the real reason for it, which was:
- the British mother was born in Pakistan and therefore was a UK citizen by descent and could not pass her UK citizenship down to her children born or adopted outside the UK
- the adopted children were born and adopted OUTSIDE the UK and so the mother could not pass her UK citizenship down to them
- however, the biological child was born INSIDE the UK (when the parents were visiting), so despite his mother only being a UK citizen by descent, he was a UK citizen because of where he was born.

The story (and our discussion) is here:
http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=91338.0