Visa Denial Question

I would call the hospital you delivered at and get the number for the trust.  Call and explain the situation to them.  See what they say.  Then get everything in writing.

Your husband needs to take his head out of the sand.  This can be resolved.  If his head is up.   

There isn’t a loophole with antenatal care.  It’s not able to be “billed” to the child or father.  It’s under the mother.  And that’s okay!  You can sort this.  The bill won’t be as scary as a US bill.   

You’ve got this.  You’re a mama, you are tough!

This thread is kind of freaking me out as I had both my children in the UK - I think I’m alright because I had a three year Tier 2 Visa from 1998 which I converted to an ILR after I was married in 2001 - kids were born 2002 and 2004. I never got billed for any treatment the entire time I lived in the UK 1998-2005

Can someone put my mind at ease and confirm I was ok to use the NHS or should I be checking with the Trust?




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This thread is kind of freaking me out as I had both my children in the UK - I think I’m alright because I had a three year Tier 2 Visa from 1998 which I converted to an ILR after I was married in 2001 - kids were born 2002 and 2004. I never got billed for any treatment the entire time I lived in the UK 1998-2005

Can someone put my mind at ease and confirm I was ok to use the NHS or should I be checking with the Trust?

You are of course completely fine, because you had ILR which gave you the same access to NHS services as British citizens. Also, the rules were entirely different back then -- one year is a long time in immigration, let alone 16 years! Calitobrum's problem is that she was a visitor when she gave birth, and so wasn't entitled to NHS services without paying for them. Once she's here on her spousal visa, she will be able to access the NHS without worrying about billing.

We've had three refusals for NHS usebon the forum since I've been a member.

One was cancer treatment.  He was told his treatment was free.  When he applied for the spouse visa, he received a refusal and a bill for over £99,000 in the same week.  His story is long and involved to say the least.

Another was a birth.  She received a refusal.  Paid a couple of thousand pounds, reapplied and was successful.

The third was also a birth.  Her trust refused to bill her and instead the head of the trust wrote a letter to UKVI that her care was free of charge.  She reapplied and obtained her visa.

Was that 3rd one before 6 April 2015, when the law changed for the NHS? The Trust now gets fined if they don't bill, or they can bill and keep all the money and the 50% they can add.

I've seen some visa refusals on other boards where some people still tell them that they can use the NHS for free and then they get lumbered with NHS debt. UKY usually catches those who think the NHS is free and these then avoid the loss of their fee when the visa is refused. Or make sure they know the NHS is not free for all and tell them to buy insurance before they arrive in the UK.

One that springs to mind for your situation was on another site. She was US citizen who gave birth on a visitor visa, but her Brit partner set up a repayment plan with NHS Wales before they applied for her spouse visa. The visa was refused, so he took out one of those interest free credit cards, paid the NHS and applied again; visa then granted.

Even British citzens have to pay for the NHS if we don't reside in the UK and we also get the 50% added if there is no insurance.

Was that 3rd one before 6 April 2015, when the law changed for the NHS? The Trust now gets fined if they don't bill, or they can bill and keep all the money and the 50% they can add.

I've seen some visa refusals on other boards where some people still tell them that they can use the NHS for free and then they get lumbered with NHS debt. UKY usually catches those who think the NHS is free and these then avoid the loss of their fee when the visa is refused. Or make sure they know the NHS is not free for all and tell them to buy insurance before they arrive in the UK.

One that springs to mind for your situation was on another site. She was US citizen who gave birth on a visitor visa, but her Brit partner set up a repayment plan with NHS Wales before they applied for her spouse visa. The visa was refused, so he took out one of those interest free credit cards, paid the NHS and applied again; visa then granted.

Even British citzens have to pay for the NHS if we don't reside in the UK and we also get the 50% added if there is no insurance.

Yup, I found it.  It was 2013/2014.

http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=80768.msg1096134#msg1096134

Yup, I found it.  It was 2013/2014.

http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=80768.msg1096134#msg1096134

It's changed then under the new(ish) law, with a carrot or stick for the NHS Trusts, to stop some NHS staff using UK taxpayers money when they can't be bothered to do the work to collect the debt.

I didn't realise the NHS had published fees.  That helps!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-national-tariff-payment-system-201617

Looks like a birth on the NHS will cost £4,000 to £5,000.  Not too scary.

Sirius, any idea if the costs in this sheet are just the straight cost?  So if no insurance, it'll be 150% of the published amount?  That does start to be a scary number...

It's not fair on families to leave believing they don't owe and then being stuck with a bill for thousands.

This is what I can never understand. Why would some people even think that they can use the health service in another country and that they won’t have to pay? Surely they realise that when people go their country they have to pay for any medical care, so why would they think that they don't have to pay if they go to another country?

 I don't take a foot off the UK without having full insurance in case I need medical care in another country. My British citizen family who live abroad, always arrive in the UK with full private insurance in case they need to use the NHS.

The UK's National Health Service is only bill free for British citizens and those with a valid ILR (granted Indefinite Leave to Remain) who also reside in the UK. It's also a myth that everything is free on the NHS for those that are allowed to use it bill free and I don't know where that one came from either. 

This is what I can never understand. Why would some people even think that they can use the health service in another country and that they won’t have to pay? I don't take a foot off the UK without having full insurance in case I need medical care in another country. My British citizen family who live abroad, always arrive in the UK with full private insurance in case they need to use the NHS.

The UK's National Health Service is only bill free for British citizens and those with a valid ILR (granted Indefinite Leave to Remain) who also reside in the UK. It's also a myth that everything is free on the NHS and I don't know where that one came from either.

People believe that because they are told that at the point of care/service.  When I moved here, I didn't realise that my visa covered NHS services.  You should have seen the urgent care clinic I was at try to bill me.  It took about an hour for them to figure it out.  Granted that was 8 years ago and the NHS has come a long way about trying to change the message.

Also, you wouldn't believe how many times I've had to correct my very intelligent British born husband or colleagues about being an immigrant and the UK government.  Everything from child benefit to the NHS, people think if my kids and husband are British that's good enough.  I educate lots of people in real life.   

But I'm with you.  I don't go anywhere without insurance.

I suspect Calitobrum expected to pay.  But was told by staff that there was no charge.  That's what frustrates me.  Being told incorrect information.  They've likely spent thousands on a visa that will now be refused because of misinformation.

I suspect Calitobrum expected to pay.  But was told by staff that there was no charge.  That's what frustrates me. 

Perhaps the best way might be if Calitobrum contacts the company that she brought her medical insurance from for her 9 month plus visit to the UK and the Europe mainland and tell them to pay her debt for the pregnancy care, birth and aftercare. I don't suppose it is too late to claim from them. Then all she has to do is show that insurance payment to UKVI to show that her NHS debt has been cleared.

I didn't realise the NHS had published fees.  That helps!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-national-tariff-payment-system-201617

Looks like a birth on the NHS will cost £4,000 to £5,000.  Not too scary.

Sirius, any idea if the costs in this sheet are just the straight cost?  So if no insurance, it'll be 150% of the published amount?  That does start to be a scary number...

I think the cost depends on the type of birth as I have seen others say it is about 4k for a straightforward birth. I'm not sure if Calitobrum will incur more costs as it wasn't just for the birth but was for care needed for the entire 9 months. Usually those who want to have their birth in the UK apply for a  medical visa and then enter when their visa allows.

No 50% added if Calitobrum uses her insurance policy to pay the debt.

I think the cost depends on the type of birth as I have seen others say it is about 4k for a straightforward birth. I'm not sure if Calitobrum will incur more costs as it wasn't just for the birth but was for care needed for the entire 9 months. Usually those who want to have their birth in the UK apply for a  medical visa and then enter when their visa allows.

No 50% added if Calibrum uses her insurance policy to pay the debt.

It gives a list of 19 different types of birth and the associated cost.  Then broken down by Standard, Intermediate, and Intensive levels of care.  Then describes what meets each of those categories (I've now learned my pregnancies were classed as intermediate).  Has all the antenatal and post natal costs.  And per day cost in the hospital.  Also has an index factor depending on hospital.  I'm rather impressed!

If nothing else, this will help Calitobrum ensure she is charged an appropriate level.  And yes, fingers crossed she was holding insurance and simply needs to forward the bill to them for payment. 

It gives a list of 19 different types of birth and the associated cost.  Then broken down by Standard, Intermediate, and Intensive levels of care.  Then describes what meets each of those categories (I've now learned my pregnancies were classed as intermediate). 

We know who to ask when this subject appears again.

We know who to ask when this subject appears again.

It won’t be me who is pregnant at least!   

BUT With a young child and spouse in UK, the ECO will most assuredly check for NHS debts!

They will. Gone are the days of having NHS debt and still getting a visa. When this change first came in to stop people entering the UK when they had NHS debt, it was 1k+ debt and then reduced to £500+ at a later date. Even in the UK, NHS debt owed is chased through the courts and if they aren't in the UK, their sponsor pays their debt.


But this can be recovered from because you did not use deception in your application. That's a massive plus.

If you had denied using the NHS and got caught out, you would have received a 10 year ban to the UK for deception.

The news rules in January also brought in a 10 year ban from the UK and although that likely came in because of those in the UK under EU rules and Brexit, it will also affect those under UK immigration rules too who are caught out. 

Even with British citizenship, if they later find out you used decpeption to get a visa to the UK, even if you didn't use that visa to as part of your citizenship application, they can remove British citizenship leaving that person with no lawful status in the UK. They don't get their ILR back.

You can see that what you have done can be sorted. An overstayer can stilll return home and get a UK spouse visa, but not if they have used the NHS and haven't paid; worked illegally; used false documents etc

Did you buy health insurance for when you were out of the US? If you did, get them to pay your medical debt. If you didn't, it could have been worse as you might have needed urgent lifesaving care that left you with tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of medical debt to pay.

Thanks everyone for responding. I wish we had known all of this earlier but now all we can do is try to rectify or apply again when the debt is resolved. The reason why we had no idea this was an issue is because we’ve been told by everyone (doctors, medical staff) that if we owed money a bill would arrive....it hasn’t yet and neither of us realized that would impact the visa. Not everyone is as informed as people on this site :-). It’s naivety on our part but since we’ve never been in this position before didn’t realize that medical staff didn’t have the correct answers either. Unfortunately I didn’t have health insurance at the time and wasn’t allowed to fly home due to a high risk pregnancy. Luckily I didn’t lie on the visa application so whatever bill we have to pay we will and can apply for the spousal visa again when it’s all resolved. I’ll let you all know how it pans out for future reference. Thanks again for taking the time to respond.