Settlement Refusal

Personally, I think it's the single most important item in an application.  They are ALL important and needed - but this one is the one thing to not leave out!

And I know we gave a copy to our lawyer bc I printed it myself and had my father in law sign it!! So frustrating!!

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

And I know we gave a copy to our lawyer bc I printed it myself and had my father in law sign it!! So frustrating!!

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

I really hate lawyers.  I really really do.

The advice you got from your solicitor doesn't seem right to me.

My solicitor said that the letter from the employer printed on company stationery was an absolute must, and that a employee contract was optional, but recommended to provide if you can.

Tim

It is an absolute must.

No letter = automatic visa refusal.

So even if there had been no payslip discrepancies, the visa would still have been refused because there was no letter.

In fact, someone last year was refused simply because their employer letter was on printed the wrong type of paper (it was not considered ‘official’ enough due to lack of company information on it).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really hate lawyers.  I really really do.

Yep - this is the very reason I never recommend using a lawyer if your application is straightforward. I would also never recommend allowing a lawyer to either fill out the application for you, or to submit the documents on your behalf.

I’ve lost count of the number of people here on the forum who have found us after being given bad advice by a lawyer, or after receiving a refusal because of bad advice from a lawyer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm so so sorry.  Very "school boy errors" that caused the refusal.

Ask yourself these questions:

Is your husband paid through PAYE?  Does he have a contract of employment?  Is he salaried?  Does he receive a P60?  If these are yes, he is DEFINITELY not self-employed.

Big hugs!  I hope you have someone you can lean on in person right now.   

He does get paid through PAYE and has an employment contract. He's hourly and I'm not sure about the P60.

Our lawyer seems to think that bc he is a manager in his father's company, be falls under this new category all of the sudden!

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

He does get paid through PAYE and has an employment contract. He's hourly and I'm not sure about the P60.

Our lawyer seems to think that bc he is a manager in his father's company, be falls under this new category all of the sudden!

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

I think he's talking out of his ass.  This "new guidance" was AUGUST 2017 - LONG before you applied.  He is trying to cover his mistake by having not sent the documentation required for your application.

That's my interpretation anyway.  Ksand, what is your thinking?

He does get paid through PAYE and has an employment contract. He's hourly and I'm not sure about the P60.

He is definitely Category A then, and as he is paid hourly, he will be considered 'non-salaried' for the application. This means that his income will be calculated as follows:

(Total of all 6 months of payslips / 6 months) x 12 months = Average annual salary

Our lawyer seems to think that bc he is a manager in his father's company, be falls under this new category all of the sudden!

Um, what 'new' category? For a start, there is no such thing as category H - it simply doesn't exist!

The Categories are:

Category A: employment income (with company for 6 months or more) -you pay taxes through PAYE

Category B: employment income (with company less than 6 months) - you pay taxes through PAYE

Category C: Non-employment income

Category D: Cash Savings

Category E: Pension Income

Category F: Self-employment income (registered as self-employed with HMRC and you file your own taxes each year) - total income from last full financial year

Category G: Self-employment income (registered as self-employed with HMRC and you file your own taxes each year) - average income from last 2 full financial years

He is definitely Category A then, and as he is paid hourly, he will be considered 'non-salaried' for the application. This means that his income will be calculated as follows:

(Total of all 6 months of payslips / 6 months) x 12 months = Average annual salary

Um, what 'new' category? For a start, there is no such thing as category H - it simply doesn't exist!

The Categories are:

Category A: employment income (with company for 6 months or more) -you pay taxes through PAYE

Category B: employment income (with company less than 6 months) - you pay taxes through PAYE

Category C: Non-employment income

Category D: Cash Savings

Category E: Pension Income

Category F: Self-employment income (registered as self-employed with HMRC and you file your own taxes each year) - total income from last full financial year

Category G: Self-employment income (registered as self-employed with HMRC and you file your own taxes each year) - average income from last 2 full financial years

I was looking at the link he sent and appendix  FM-SE para 9(a) does seem like it could apply to our situation. It is an LLC and his father is the single share holder. Would that cause us to fall under a category other than A?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

I really hate lawyers.  I really really do.

It's so sad to see another person refused because of a lawyer error.  There was a piece in one of the papers about how bad some of these are.

I was looking at the link he sent and appendix  FM-SE para 9(a) does seem like it could apply to our situation. It is an LLC and his father is the single share holder. Would that cause us to fall under a category other than A?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

He is employed by his father on an hourly rate so he is an employee. If his father was the sponsor it would be a different story! Your lawyer is full of it

I was looking at the link he sent and appendix  FM-SE para 9(a) does seem like it could apply to our situation. It is an LLC and his father is the single share holder. Would that cause us to fall under a category other than A?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

It's hard to say, to be honest. I'll admit that when I replied above, it was before I had fully read through your above posts.

It does read as though the company falls under paragraph 9a), in which case when you reapply, you would have to provide all the required company documents along with his payslips and bank statements.

Even so, this is not a 'new category', nor have the 'rules been stretched recently' (and certainly not since your application) and nor is it an 'odd development in the Rules that is increasingly coming to light in practice'... Paragraph 9a) has been in the rules since at least April 2015... because I am looking at the Appendix FM 1.7 issued in April 2015 and that paragraph is in there!

It may have even been in place since the rules were originally introduced in July 2012, but I don't think I have the guidance documents saved from that far back anymore.

Here’s a screenshot of the guidance published in April 2015.... so if your lawyer really knew their stuff they would have told you about it before you even applied:



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's hard to say, to be honest. I'll admit that when I replied above, it was before I had fully read through your above posts.

It does read as though the company falls under paragraph 9a), in which case when you reapply, you would have to provide all the required company documents along with his payslips and bank statements.

Even so, this is not a 'new category', nor have the 'rules been stretched recently' (and certainly not since your application) and nor is it an 'odd development in the Rules that is increasingly coming to light in practice'... Paragraph 9a) has been in the rules since at least April 2015... because I am looking at the Appendix FM 1.7 issued in April 2015 and that paragraph is in there!

It may have even been in place since the rules were originally introduced in July 2012, but I don't think I have the guidance documents saved from that far back anymore.

Here’s a screenshot of the guidance published in April 2015.... so if your lawyer really knew their stuff they would have told you about it before you even applied:



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

See, we've seen this before many times where people are employed by the family business.  But never have they been required to submit the company's accounts.

And when I read this guidance - MY role at my company would mean that I would need to submit company accounts...

I still say the lawyer it trying to cover his ass because your refusal was a direct result of his inactions.

I will talk with my husband today and see what we decide. Honestly, this guy just talks in circles and gives us wrong info all the time, I think maybe we should cut our losses and rely on this forum for help!

Please please do not rely on that lawyer for any further immigration help!  The only contact you should have with him going forward is to get your original documents back and try to get a refund.  He has done nothing but cost you money, stress, and time.

The people in this forum know this process.  If you work with this group and you meet the requirements for your visa, you will get it.

See, we've seen this before many times where people are employed by the family business.  But never have they been required to submit the company's accounts.

And when I read this guidance - MY role at my company would mean that I would need to submit company accounts...

I still say the lawyer it trying to cover his ass because your refusal was a direct result of his inactions.

So what category should we reapply under? I would think that bc it wasn't addresses in the refusal letter, category A was ok? My husband and his father have different surnames so I don't know if they just didn't catch it or??

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Please please do not rely on that lawyer for any further immigration help!  The only contact you should have with him going forward is to get your original documents back and try to get a refund.  He has done nothing but cost you money, stress, and time.

The people in this forum know this process.  If you work with this group and you meet the requirements for your visa, you will get it.

Thank you ♡♡ I'm waiting impatiently for my husband to get some free time so we can chat and sort it out but I'm inclined to agree with you!!

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk