Which country to retire to for fun, culture, nightlife? Ireland,France, Spain?

https://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/britains-unwritten-constitution

So the answer is no.

The Mrs and I are doing a summer get away in Michigan. Want to take in all the sights in the Midwest while we can before moving over to Europe. Will also spend time in Canada probably Toronto and Quebec. Not sure if we will drive our car into Canada or rent a vehicle, will have to gauge where my comfort level is.

 I couldn't help think how much territory we would cover if that same 1300 miles(give or take a few hundred miles) was traveled by car in Europe. We could drive from France or Spain to Prague or to Rome in nearly that same distance we just traveled from Florida to Michigan. That is quite exciting. We could drive from Toulouse France to Zagreb Croatia in about 1400 miles. Freaking fantastic!

Similar boat - wanted to get this passport to make it easier to move around Europe in the future without having to deal with the Swedish authorities and paperwork everytime we wanted to pop back to sweden for 4-6 months in the future. Guess that's out the window! (Although the Swedes will grant a passport pretty quick, itll still be a hassle and I will have to do time there now).

But the incompetence of this government is truly mindboggling. At first I was hopeful there was an adult in the room or some wily plan but nope! So the border issue drags on and time keeps passing and just how panicked are people going to be by October, November, December? Are they going to panic and get something done at some point?

Don't give up hope yet because Brexit is struggling in the UK government. They seem confused as how best to move forward with it's complete implementation without getting blamed for harming the UK economy. Teresa May is boxed in because she is aware that her government will fall if Brexit is not implemented, but if it is, and the economy is severely damaged her government still will fall. She is the example of be careful what you ask for.

I sense most of the UK does not want Brexit but they simply got caught up in the moment and decided divorce(from Europe) is sometimes a good thing. But now they are starting to think the relationship wasn't so bad. Especially with America being ran by a psychotic. Figuring out what other reliable trading partners to fill the gap is not going to be as easy.

Don't forget Donald is a true psychotic. In exchange for giving the UK favorable trading status he might want one of his idiot sons made King of England. Somebody might have to explain to the doofus that being King of England is only a ceremonial post.

Teresa May is boxed in because she is aware that her government will fall if Brexit is not implemented, but if it is, and the economy is severely damaged her government still will fall. She is the example of be careful what you ask for.

She didn't ask for Brexit, Theresa May is a remainer.

I sense most of the UK does not want Brexit but they simply got caught up in the moment and decided divorce(from Europe) is sometimes a good thing. 

Like the countries of Scotland and Northern Ireland, who voted remain? Oh, wait, Northern Ireland isn't a "country" - it's a "province" of the UK. (I know some N.I. types who just love that term - not!) And the almost half of the English who voted remain?

This is insanity at it's finest.

Don't give up hope yet because Brexit is struggling in the UK government.

  The Withdrawal Bill was passed yesterday and that Bill (the papers) were literally walked through to the Lords, where the Bill was passed by them too, in minutes. It will be an Act (law) when it gets the formality of Royal Accent from the Queen. Labour party backbenchers pushing the Bill through as expected. Labour's mantra has always been "British jobs for Brtiish workers. A fair days pay for a fair days work" and many of the Labour heartlands voted for Brexit. This law means the UK can walk away from the EU without giving them anything (as their EU’s Article 50 foolishly states) if the UK doesn't think a trade deal is worth taking.

At the same time, yesterday there has been a crisis meeting for the EU called for by Merkel as her German government could be brought down, by her own sister party. They have given her 2 weeks. To avoid this, she urgently needs the EU to make it easier for every EEA country to remove immigrants from their countries. The other party she formed a coalition with is the Socialist party, after the party for businessmen refused to join her. But the Socailists are losing in the polls to the new far right party AfD (Alternative for Germany) who want to control immigrant numbers to their country too. 


For the EU, Germany and the UK are the two countries who mainly pay for the EU. The President of the EU Council left his post in January 2017 to be leader of the German Socialist party for the elections a few months later, but got the worst result that party has had for 40 years. For the first time in decades, a far right party not only got a seat in the German parliament, but are now Germany’s official opposition party. Socialist parties in EEA countries, are losing support from their indigenous population.


But even that urgent meeting that Merkel needs, has caused anger from the EU countries and will cause further splits in the EU. The President for the EU Council that should have organised that meeting, the council for the leaders of all the EU countries, refused to do so because not all countries have been invited to that meeting on immigration. His country, Poland, was not invited either. The two EEA countries that already have the far right parties in government, have been invited.

So, Sirius,  I haven't been following it closely as I should be, for my mental health. What happens next? The last I'd paid attention it seemed as if the vote had failed for May she'd have been up for a vote of "no confidence" and possibly a new PM? (Corbyn, or the guy whose hair is worse than The Donald's?)  So since the vote went "her" way, now she is not? 

And if her Brexit negotiations fail, the Parliament now has no say in the outcome? If she does negotiate something, regardless of what that something is, the same is true? There would be no legislative oversight of leaving from this point onwards?   

The gist: with Tories it is always, always party first, country last.

She didn't ask for Brexit, Theresa May is a remainer.

Boris Johnson certainly is a leave supporter and May gave that genius a key post in her government in order to placate him, as well as to raise his profile. How is that not supporting the leave agenda? Not to mention the fact that she is Prime Minister. She could decide to use her power to pump the brakes on leaving based on the argument that leaving Europe is actually a troubled idea.  Doesn't matter if I push an idea that wasn't originally mine, if I sponsor that idea it is now a part of my agenda.


Don't you agree?

Boris Johnson certainly is a leave supporter and May gave that genius a key post in her government in order to placate him, as well as to raise his profile. How is that not supporting the leave agenda? Not to mention the fact that she is Prime Minister. She could decide to use her power to pump the brakes on leaving based on the argument that leaving Europe is actually a troubled idea.  Doesn't matter if I push an idea that wasn't originally mine, if I sponsor that idea it is now a part of my agenda.


Don't you agree?

No, it's both more complicated and stupid than that.

Once you accept the basic premise that no matter what their actual beliefs may be British politicians are happy to take whatever position will keep them in power for the longest period of time, UK politics makes much more sense.

Consider that David Cameron was a remainer, but he's the one who promised to have the referendum which led to Brexit. He did so for the same reason fellow remainer Theresa May is working so hard to make Brexit happen in a way that'll be most palatable to all the gammon who don't realize what a stupid idea it is - it's the stupid idea that's keeping her in power.

I'm pretty sure Boris Johnson is only a leave supporter because he thought he'd be able to leverage his leave support into the PM job after David Cameron resigned in the wake of what Johnson thought would be a vote to remain in the EU. He could say, "I tried, leavers, now put me in charge so I can keep working to make Brexit happen." But then the leavers won, which nobody thought would happen, so now he's stuck supporting Brexit even though he knows it's a dumb idea.

On a totally unrelated note, how did a thread about where to live in Europe get here? Are you sure you're not a Russian troll?

Like the countries of Scotland and Northern Ireland, who voted remain? Oh, wait, Northern Ireland isn't a "country" - it's a "province" of the UK. (I know some N.I. types who just love that term - not!) And the almost half of the English who voted remain?

This is insanity at it's finest.

What's going to happen to Ireland after Brexit? I think a lot of people envision a reunification of Ireland one day but Brexit could add to the blocking of that.

The Withdrawal Bill was passed yesterday and that Bill (the papers) were literally walked through to the Lords, where the Bill was passed by them too, in minutes. It will be an Act (law) when it gets the formality of Royal Accent from the Queen. Labour party backbenchers pushing the Bill through as expected. Labour's mantra has always been "British jobs for Brtiish workers. A fair days pay for a fair days work" and many of the Labour heartlands voted for Brexit. This law means the UK can walk away from the EU without giving them anything (as their EU’s Article 50 foolishly states) if the UK doesn't think a trade deal is worth taking.

At the same time, yesterday there has been a crisis meeting for the EU called for by Merkel as her German government could be brought down, by her own sister party. They have given her 2 weeks. To avoid this, she urgently needs the EU to make it easier for every EEA country to remove immigrants from their countries. The other party she formed a coalition with is the Socialist party, after the party for businessmen refused to join her. But the Socailists are losing in the polls to the new far right party AfD (Alternative for Germany) who want to control immigrant numbers to their country too. 


For the EU, Germany and the UK are the two countries who mainly pay for the EU. The President of the EU Council left his post in January 2017 to be leader of the German Socialist party for the elections a few months later, but got the worst result that party has had for 40 years. For the first time in decades, a far right party not only got a seat in the German parliament, but are now Germany’s official opposition party. Socialist parties in EEA countries, are losing support from their indigenous population.


But even that urgent meeting that Merkel needs, has caused anger from the EU countries and will cause further splits in the EU. The President for the EU Council that should have organised that meeting, the council for the leaders of all the EU countries, refused to do so because not all countries have been invited to that meeting on immigration. His country, Poland, was not invited either. The two EEA countries that already have the far right parties in government, have been invited.

Does Europe have a great deal of intolerance and bigotry? My wife is African American and she is my life. The idea of someone saying or doing anything negative towards her would get my blood boiling. I've heard crazy things about Austria and some of the outdated thinking that has been demonstrated there. Thankfully the UK is the true beacon of inclusion in Europe. And I'm sure there are other European countries that are diverse and inclusive.

The gist: with Tories it is always, always party first, country last.

Funny you should mention that because that is true of our Republican party.

No, it's both more complicated and stupid than that.

Once you accept the basic premise that no matter what their actual beliefs may be British politicians are happy to take whatever position will keep them in power for the longest period of time, UK politics makes much more sense.

Consider that David Cameron was a remainer, but he's the one who promised to have the referendum which led to Brexit. He did so for the same reason fellow remainer Theresa May is working so hard to make Brexit happen in a way that'll be most palatable to all the gammon who don't realize what a stupid idea it is - it's the stupid idea that's keeping her in power.

I'm pretty sure Boris Johnson is only a leave supporter because he thought he'd be able to leverage his leave support into the PM job after David Cameron resigned in the wake of what Johnson thought would be a vote to remain in the EU. He could say, "I tried, leavers, now put me in charge so I can keep working to make Brexit happen." But then the leavers won, which nobody thought would happen, so now he's stuck supporting Brexit even though he knows it's a dumb idea.

On a totally unrelated note, how did a thread about where to live in Europe get here? Are you sure you're not a Russian troll?

Wow, I have to admit that does sound extremely dumb. Why support something you're totally against. Many politicians are nothing but self serving cowards.

We have tons of Russian people in America and like every group there are some trolls in there as well. Hell we have a Russian troll admirer in the White House.

On a totally unrelated note, how did a thread about where to live in Europe get here? Are you sure you're not a Russian troll?

Because none of us have even a modicum of self-control.