Which country to retire to for fun, culture, nightlife? Ireland,France, Spain?

I’m now starting to question if it was him because I can’t find it!! I am fairly certain the joke I’m thinking of was on live at the Apollo on Netflix. I need to keep searching. But this will buy me some time...haha

That's about right... pure dead mental.  Violent, but friendly with it! 

http://www.konbini.com/ng/lifestyle/map-shows-european-countries-racist/

The above link shows just how inclusive Europe is toward the various minorities. I found it to be very insightful and a good aid in considering and planning a move to Europe. Very easy to follow and the graphics highlighting maps is an additional plus. The UK was the best inclusive country followed by Sweden, Denmark and France.

Greece, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, are considered to be some of the nations with a higher number of racial incidents against Jews, Blacks, Asians, Muslims ect. The research included among other questions, which nations were more or less accepting of their children dating person's of a different ethnicity. The research was carried out in partnership with Harvard University.

http://www.konbini.com/ng/lifestyle/map-shows-european-countries-racist/

The above link shows just how inclusive Europe is toward the various minorities. I found it to be very insightful and a good aid in considering and planning a move to Europe. Very easy to follow and the graphics highlighting maps is an additional plus. The UK was the best inclusive country followed by Sweden, Denmark and France.

Just want to give the usual "take this with a massive pinch of salt" caution. Also, the initial data was collected back in 2015 and was only *re-released* last year (not re-collected).

Just want to give the usual "take this with a massive pinch of salt" caution. Also, the initial data was collected back in 2015 and was only *re-released* last year (not re-collected).

Understood!

But I must say this sort of information is quite helpful in making a BIG decision moving from one country to another. And when you add this information, and compare it with other independent data sources it can be very reassuring.

Understood!

But I must say this sort of information is quite helpful in making a BIG decision moving from one country to another. And when you at this information and compare it with other independent data sources it can be very reassuring.

Definitely doesn't hurt to give it a glance but I think you'll run into jerks everywhere so you can't put too much stock into whether or not a country is reportedly tolerant or not as that won't guarantee that you'll be harassed or not, unfortunately. I don't think there's really a fool proof way to detect that....but even so, the results are from 2015 so things may have changed as well so, again, don't put tooooo much stock in things being exactly the same. I'm not trying to say don't use it. Just don't take it as gospel as you'll end up sorely disappointed I think.

Definitely doesn't hurt to give it a glance but I think you'll run into jerks everywhere so you can't put too much stock into whether or not a country is reportedly tolerant or not as that won't guarantee that you'll be harassed or not, unfortunately. I don't think there's really a fool proof way to detect that....but even so, the results are from 2015 so things may have changed as well so, again, don't put tooooo much stock in things being exactly the same. I'm not trying to say don't use it. Just don't take it as gospel as you'll end up sorely disappointed I think.

Thanks for your thoughtful words.

When ever I seek out research describing the actions of other people, and in this instance living in a particular place, it's important to factor in what they have experienced and acknowledge that, while being aware that my time there can be somewhat different. But it is helpful to know these things in order to avoid mistakes made by those other travelers. And when moving to these places as my new home the importance to do research is even more vital. I'm sure it's possible to walk down any street in Chicago at night without being harmed but knowing that city has a serious murder rate, that should make a wise person think twice before doing so. I take moving to a new destination outside the States far more serious than visiting an American city. And taking my wife to a different country makes me all the more careful and protective. Good research should make this adventure a positive experience and one that helps us grow as individuals. At least that is the goal!

Thanks for your thoughtful words.

When ever I seek out research describing the actions of other people, and in this instance living in a particular place, it's important to factor in what they have experienced and acknowledge that, while being aware that my time there can be somewhat different. But it is helpful to know these things in order to avoid mistakes made by those other travelers. And when moving to these places as my new home the importance to do research is even more vital. I'm sure it's possible to walk down any street in Chicago at night without being harmed but knowing that city has a serious murder rate, that should make a wise person think twice before doing so. I take moving to a new destination outside the States far more serious than visiting an American city. And taking my wife to a different country makes me all the more careful and protective. Good research should make this adventure a positive experience and one that helps us grow as individuals. At least that is the goal!

When you narrow it back down to your prospective countries, I would strongly strongly suggest you find an expat group for that particular area(s) because this group will only be able to help you so much. I know that this has been said before but I just want to restate that -for most of us - we can only share our experiences of travelling to those countries as tourists and not as expats. While visiting can obviously give you a good idea of some things, other things like how accepting a community is would be better asked to the actual expats that live and work there in that specific country. They will best be able to tell you what adjusting was like and what the people are like when they know you live there vs are a tourist spending your money there in their economy and they will likely not deal with you again. Just as an example, I asked on an expat page about recommendations for "must see" places in Belgium or good places to eat that weren't massively touristy. I was told by several people that I shouldn't bother going but the ONLY rude person I ran into (or more, he literally barged into me) was some guy who purposely made a b-line for me on the pavement to throw his shoulder into me while walking past me and he was probably a bit mentally unstable. Everybody else was pretty lovely and friendly.........because we were clueless tourists.


Statistics are great and research is key when moving countries, that's not what I'm trying to say. But, asking a person if they would let their child marry a black man or an asian man or whatever cannot produce absolute results because that person may know that the morally correct answer to that question is "yes" even if on the inside they know they wouldn't be happy about that. Asking a person what they would/wouldn't be okay with leaves the door WAY open to dishonesty. Something else like actual murder statistics is proven by hard facts that can't really be skewed much. I don't think likening those two bits of research is comparing apples to oranges as racism/acceptance is MUCH more complicated than hard facts/figures.

As much as I would love to live in the UK it just wouldn't be sustainable for 10 million Americans who want to go there, to be let in. It would no longer be the UK. Brussels is well on it's way to changing the other EU countries in a negative way.

If you went to the forums where the skilled workers are, who can get a skills visa to any country, they are of every religion, culture, skin colour, etc. But these  often expain to the others on there that having to control immigration numbers is just basic economics: that  uncontrolled immigration causes problems for jobs, housing, healthcare, welfare, schools, services, transport etc,

The people of Switzerland and the UK who voted to take back control of their country, or in the other EEA countries where they vote for these new anti-uncontrolled immigratation parties, likely do so because they have seen their wages reduced/kept down, can no longer get their children into their local schools, can no longer get an appointment straight away with their GP etc.

If you went to the forums where the skilled workers are, who can get a skills visa to any country, they are of every religion, culture, skin colour, etc. But these  often expain to the others on there that having to control immigration numbers is just basic economics: that  uncontrolled immigration causes problems for jobs, housing, healthcare, welfare, schools, services, transport etc,

The people of Switzerland and the UK who voted to take back control of their country, or in the other EEA countries where they vote for these new anti-uncontrolled immigratation parties, likely do so because they have seen their wages reduced/kept down, can no longer get their children into their local schools, can no longer get an appointment straight away with their GP etc.

Good Point.

When you narrow it back down to your prospective countries, I would strongly strongly suggest you find an expat group for that particular area(s) because this group will only be able to help you so much. I know that this has been said before but I just want to restate that -for most of us - we can only share our experiences of travelling to those countries as tourists and not as expats. While visiting can obviously give you a good idea of some things, other things like how accepting a community is would be better asked to the actual expats that live and work there in that specific country. They will best be able to tell you what adjusting was like and what the people are like when they know you live there vs are a tourist spending your money there in their economy and they will likely not deal with you again. Just as an example, I asked on an expat page about recommendations for "must see" places in Belgium or good places to eat that weren't massively touristy. I was told by several people that I shouldn't bother going but the ONLY rude person I ran into (or more, he literally barged into me) was some guy who purposely made a b-line for me on the pavement to throw his shoulder into me while walking past me and he was probably a bit mentally unstable. Everybody else was pretty lovely and friendly.........because we were clueless tourists.


Statistics are great and research is key when moving countries, that's not what I'm trying to say. But, asking a person if they would let their child marry a black man or an asian man or whatever cannot produce absolute results because that person may know that the morally correct answer to that question is "yes" even if on the inside they know they wouldn't be happy about that. Asking a person what they would/wouldn't be okay with leaves the door WAY open to dishonesty. Something else like actual murder statistics is proven by hard facts that can't really be skewed much. I don't think likening those two bits of research is comparing apples to oranges as racism/acceptance is MUCH more complicated than hard facts/figures.

Noted! And I think it can be a very helpful idea for assimilation purposes to seek out expat communities in various countries because they know the lay of the land so to speak.. Thankfully we have been fortunate enough to be friends with a few people that spent time living in different countries. Part of the reason why we are leaning toward France is that we both are friends with someone that lived in France and their experience was so positive. One of them lived in France many years ago and the other just recently.And they both happen to be persons of color. We've heard mixed reviews about Spain in terms of inclusivity and interestingly enough that does match the Harvard study. We wouldn't let a few bad apples stop us from checking out a great country because neither of us are new to travel nor taking a chance by going somewhere different. We take things in stride but at the same time just want to keep everything moving forward as planed out as possible.

May I ask if you are a person of color or could you be married to a person of color?

This is what I have experienced. My knowledge and encounters with racism is extremely different from that of a person of color. Now that I am married to a person of color the things I have seen has been eye opening. No statistics can explain it because we're dealing with real human behavior and not data.

 Attitudes, bias, jealousy peculiar assumptions are just a few of the strange behaviors I have now experienced stepping out our door as a multi-ethnic couple. We have also been embraced and felt the protective kindness of various people. So when I read information from credible sources regarding racism in various countries, it's very much appreciated. That Harvard study is a road map which included so many facets of data some of which are attitudes, tendencies, and incidents for the reader to digest and use to gain a better picture of what "might" happen when visiting a particular country.

The information from that study mirrors the experiences people of color have gone through while living in those countries. The study was not down to one particular question such as would someone be comfortable with marriage between different ethnicities. It was a wide ranging study that actually was smart tactically enough to factor in whether someone gave truthful answers to questions. And you can judge for yourself if the information given matched the reality on the ground in that country.  Because societies in each particular case study country had a factual counter balance. Meaning if a person was open to inter-ethnicity dating and marriage you then should see that reflected in that society. I'm sure you can understand how easy that is to fact check. No guessing and no assumptions! If you see inter-ethnicity couples then that is the actual proof to give confirmation to that study's findings. Especially when those couples participate in that same study.. Some people of color and multi-ethnicity couples will sail under the radar and will not be subject to any anti-social confrontations while in a different country. Research increases the odds of a fun safe expat experience.

May I ask if you are a person of color or could you be married to a person of color?

This is what I have experienced. My knowledge and encounters with racism is extremely different from that of a person of color. Now that I am married to a person of color the things I have seen has been eye opening. No statistics can explain it because we're dealing with real human behavior and not data.

 Attitudes, bias, jealousy peculiar assumptions are just a few of the strange behaviors I have now experienced stepping out our door as a multi-ethnic couple. We have also been embraced and felt the protective kindness of various people. So when I read information from credible sources regarding racism in various countries, it's very much appreciated. That Harvard study is a road map which included so many facets of data some of which are attitudes, tendencies, and incidents for the reader to digest and use to gain a better picture of what "might" happen when visiting a particular country.

The information from that study mirrors the experiences people of color have gone through while living in those countries. The study was not down to one particular question such as would someone be comfortable with marriage between different ethnicities. It was a wide ranging study that actually was smart tactically enough to factor in whether someone gave truthful answers to questions. And you can judge for yourself if the information given matched the reality on the ground in that country.  Because societies in each particular case study country had a factual counter balance. Meaning if a person was open to inter-ethnicity dating and marriage you then should see that reflected in that society. I'm sure you can understand how easy that is to fact check. No guessing and no assumptions! If you see inter-ethnicity couples then that is the actual proof to give confirmation to that study's findings. Especially when those couples participate in that same study.. Some people of color and multi-ethnicity couples will sail under the radar and will not be subject to any anti-social confrontations while in a different country. Research increases the odds of a fun safe expat experience.

I am not a person of colour and I am not married to a person of colour...but my point was not that there isn't racism in other countries. My point is the exact opposite. There will be good and bad people wherever you go and that just because a place says it's "more accepting" doesn't mean that's actually the case. My point was that it's not as black and white of a study to outright ask people if they are accepting as research providing data on murder rates. it's comparing apples to oranges. The only way you can truly tell how accepting a culture/community is with the lowest margin of error possible is to speak to people in that community about their experiences (which is something that this forum won't be able to provide you in most cases, unfortunately, as the majority of us will not have lived in the areas you're looking at).

With all due respect, the questions that are reported in that study is, overall, "A study by the European Commission asked EU citizens how comfortable they would feel if their child pursued a romantic relationship with a person from a different cultural background or faith." (I legitimately pulled that from the article you posted) so, as far as that article covers, the questions are legitimately "Would you feel comfortable if your child was in a relationship with **fill in the blank ethnicity**?". It didn't mention at all mirroring individuals' experiences (the only examples I can see, unless I've missed them, are specifically down to one particular question with specifics changed to different ethnicities.

I am not a person of colour and I am not married to a person of colour...but my point was not that there isn't racism in other countries. My point is the exact opposite. There will be good and bad people wherever you go and that just because a place says it's "more accepting" doesn't mean that's actually the case. My point was that it's not as black and white of a study to outright ask people if they are accepting as research providing data on murder rates. it's comparing apples to oranges. The only way you can truly tell how accepting a culture/community is with the lowest margin of error possible is to speak to people in that community about their experiences (which is something that this forum won't be able to provide you in most cases, unfortunately, as the majority of us will not have lived in the areas you're looking at).

With all due respect, the questions that are reported in that study is, overall, "A study by the European Commission asked EU citizens how comfortable they would feel if their child pursued a romantic relationship with a person from a different cultural background or faith." (I legitimately pulled that from the article you posted) so, as far as that article covers, the questions are legitimately "Would you feel comfortable if your child was in a relationship with **fill in the blank ethnicity**?". It didn't mention at all mirroring individuals' experiences (the only examples I can see, unless I've missed them, are specifically down to one particular question with specifics changed to different ethnicities.

May I ask if you've lived in any countries in Europe other than the UK?

It's a given that most people understand no place is perfect and the best of countries have some sort of anti-social behavioral problems, but that's not the issue up for debate. And we are on the same page how important it is to talk to people about living somewhere and what that place might offer. The topic at hand is where to move to that has greater instances of progressive behavior in regards to ethnic inclusivity. And not once did I, or would I suggest we should use the subjective information of a country's "opinion" about it's self, on where they stand  on racist ideology.

Information should be gathered from a cross section of sources. And in this case one of the very best learning sources is to speak to people of color, or multi-ethnicity couples and learn how they have been treated while visiting and living abroad in a particular country. And there are posters on this site who happen to be in mixed marriages. Nothing wrong with speaking to the indigenous inhabitants to get a sense of their comfort level with ethnicity diversity at home. But when discussing and learning about women's concerns for example, it's logical to go to a cross section of women for their experiences.

And the same thing apply when understanding issues about racism. I don't believe a Caucasian person who has not been in a long term committed mixed relationship can truly understand and grasp the complexity of this topic unless of course they have experienced racism or their partner has. They can feel empathy, but can they truly appreciate the concerns someone might have about a racist society considering the fact they are limited to secondhand knowledge on the subject? Too much information is missing for them to really comprehend what takes place on a daily basis. Definitely is not a matter of shades of grey either a circumstance has happen or not.

I think you were unknowingly looking at the Harvard Study as the primary focus in my search for information, when if you reread my posting it was important to me to find facts that either confirmed the findings of various sources or one that could give me additional data to increase my odds of making a well informed decision.

That study while having some flaws just gives confirmation to other sources. That Study points out that the UK is one of the least racist countries in Europe. Maybe you might disagree with that finding? But many people I have spoken with before I ever visited the UK agreed that the UK is indeed a   welcoming place for all ethnicities. I came to that same conclusion after several stays in the UK which is one reason among many why it's disappointing the UK is not our retirement country. But in any case I really do appreciate your kind words and the thoughtful interest you have put forth on this subject.

May I ask if you've lived in any countries in Europe other than the UK?

I have not and, again, my original point was that the majority of people on here will not have lived in any countries outside the UK so this wouldn't be the best place for you to gather information around how tolerant other countries are when you aren't a tourist.

Information should be gathered from a cross section of sources. And in this case one of the very best learning sources is to speak to people of color, or multi-ethnicity couples and learn how they have been treated while visiting and living abroad in a particular country. And there are posters on this site who happen to be in mixed marriages. Nothing wrong with speaking to the indigenous inhabitants to get a sense of their comfort level with ethnicity diversity at home. But when discussing and learning about women's concerns for example, it's logical to go to a cross section of women for their experiences.

And the same thing apply when understanding issues about racism. I don't believe a Caucasian person who has not been in a long term committed mixed relationship can truly understand and grasp the complexity of this topic unless of course they have experienced racism or their partner has. They can feel empathy, but can they truly appreciate the concerns someone might have about a racist society considering the fact they are limited to secondhand knowledge on the subject? Too much information is missing for them to really comprehend what takes place on a daily basis. Definitely is not a matter of shades of grey either a circumstance has happen or not.

I think you were unknowingly looking at the Harvard Study as the primary focus in my search for information, when if you reread my posting it was important to me to find facts that either confirmed the findings of various sources or one that could give me additional data to increase my odds of making a well informed decision.

That study while having some flaws just gives confirmation to other sources. That Study points out that the UK is one of the least racist countries in Europe. Maybe you might disagree with that finding? But many people I have spoken with before I ever visited the UK agreed that the UK is indeed a   welcoming place for all ethnicities. I came to that same conclusion after several stays in the UK which is one reason among many why it's disappointing the UK is not our retirement country. But in any case I really do appreciate your kind words and the thoughtful interest you have put forth on this subject.

Look, the only point I made in my original response is this: Take that survey with a big pinch of salt because the survey is asking a basic question (I.E. would you feel comfortable with your child dating a person from x-minority) and was surveyed back in 2015 and that leaves a lot of room for inaccurate representations (E.G. a person knowing it's morally wrong to say they wouldn't be comfortable and therefore lie on the survey or genuinely feel they would be comfortable until it actually happens to them). The whole point I was making was that you might go "oh, this place seems to be really accepting in this study!" and then you get there and find it's actually quite intolerant so I'm not entirely sure you're letting me know that - as a Caucasian married to a Caucasian I wouldn't understand the concerns (as I never claimed that I personally experienced any of that or pretend like I would know what the experience would be through that point of view, I was merely advising about that survey). You said that survey did more than just ask that basic question. I'm telling you I can't see where it states that so would be interested if you could share as I would find that interesting to read.  As for looking at the study as your only means of information, that would be because you simply shared it saying "The above link shows just how inclusive Europe is toward the various minorities. I found it to be very insightful and a good aid in considering and planning a move to Europe. Very easy to follow and the graphics highlighting maps is an additional plus. The UK was the best inclusive country followed by Sweden, Denmark and France." so you didn't exactly mention that you married this information up with personal experiences from people living there so I was attempting to give you the friendly standard reminder that this won't replace speaking with people from those countries and that I would take these findings with a pinch of salt given what question was being asked and the age. I also did not see where it says that it was done in partnership with Harvard but, again, perhaps I just missed a bit of information in the link  where this was highlighted so apologies if that's the case.

As for whether or not I think these findings marry up with the statistics to show that the UK is one of the least racist places, all I would say is that they voted for Brexit....Obviously the country as a whole is more accepting but you also have very vocal group here like EDL that like to stir racism and it's disgusting. The target doesn't necessarily seem to be focused on black people, but Muslims.

I will leave it there though as I think our back and forth on this has been exhausted and you clearly know what you're doing and what works for you. Again, I was just trying to give you one simple bit of advice in response to the post you made with the link to the research you found. Best of luck to you and your partner.

If you went to the forums where the skilled workers are, who can get a skills visa to any country, they are of every religion, culture, skin colour, etc. But these  often expain to the others on there that having to control immigration numbers is just basic economics: that  uncontrolled immigration causes problems for jobs, housing, healthcare, welfare, schools, services, transport etc,

The people of Switzerland and the UK who voted to take back control of their country, or in the other EEA countries where they vote for these new anti-uncontrolled immigratation parties, likely do so because they have seen their wages reduced/kept down, can no longer get their children into their local schools, can no longer get an appointment straight away with their GP etc.

I agree 100%. The economic argument against uncontrolled immigration makes perfect sense to most reasonable people. No one would want their family tree's future diminished and that can happen if controls on immigrations aren't in place. Economic opportunities in every country are not limitless so there need to be some realistic safe guards in place to protect everyone concerned including immigrants that have been accepted into their new country.

In case it matters, I've just been perusing the UK/France tax treaty, and a few others. Dual citizenship changes the outcomes, so you'd need to read the treaty carefully. Unless I'm mis-reading (and it's possible), for US (only) citizens:

• US source pensions (including social security) are not taxable in France. (Article 18).

• US source pensions (including social security) are completely taxable in Ireland.* (Also Article 18)

• US source pensions are taxable in Spain.* US Social Security may be taxed in the US. (Article 19 - note it says "may be", it doesn't say "only", so this might be a double-taxation issue. Someone competent with Spanish taxes would need to sort that out.)

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*US govmt. pensions are only taxable in the US.

Nan, Thank you!

We will look into that issue in short order.