Hello
Guest

Sponsored Links


Topic: Your thoughts on: Bedford, Kettering, Stevenage, St. Neots, Chelmsford, Braintre  (Read 3118 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

  • *
  • Posts: 568

  • Liked: 70
  • Joined: Mar 2005
I've held back from posting because I'm biased and I've not lived in Essex for a few years, about 7 of them.  But as I keep coming back to this topic I'm going to go ahead and respond.

I lived in Essex for 5-6 years, specifically Brentwood and Hornchurch.  While doing this I worked in London and commuted to either Liverpool Street or Fenchurch Street Station daily.  My husband's parents live in Upminster and his school friends are mostly in Chelmsford, Basildon and other smaller towns around that area.

We lived in Brentwood for a couple reasons.  When I moved here, only my husband had a job, in Upminster, and the commute was short for him.  At the time we looked at Chelmsford, Brentwood and Basildon and settled in Brentwood because it provided the shortest commute for him with the most space on our tiny budget (£550 for a 1 bedroom, no garden, above a shop 12.5 years ago).  When I got a job in London I did the Upminster to Fenchurch Street line daily (husband dropped me off on his way to work), and later Emerson Park (it's a small area of Hornchurch) to either Liverpool Street or Fenchurch Street daily.

Travel & Train Times: easy peasy.  We actually looked at Upminster for a bit rather than London.  The key in my mind is to get as close to a station as possible.  It saves substantially on commuting time and cost.  Trains were a plenty from Upminster.  Less so from Emerson Park - it's a branch line, but it was closer to London with cheaper rents and more space so we moved there.  I worked in South London so my commute was around 90 minutes in the morning and 120 minutes in the evening.  If I timed in right and could get into work early I could cut that down to 70 minutes in the morning!  I'd find out about any potential employer's flexible working policy.  If I arrived at 8:15 / 8:30 the trains were less crowded and I got to work much more quickly.  One boss was happy for me to do that for 2-3 weeks and then take half a day or day off.

I much preferred to arrive into Fenchurch Street.  Cleaner, nicer, newer trains with less stops.  I still travel both lines with some regularity to see my in-laws.

Train Costs: on my dear lord, sell your soul now.  I paid around £1,800-£2,000 per year (and I didn't park at the stations) over 7 years ago. 
I just checked, Emerson Park with Zone 6 Travelcard is currently £2,500/year so not as bad as I thought!  Brentwood is £3,550 and Chelmsford is £5,000.

Train Seats: BAHAHAHA!  I tell the greatest jokes, don't I?

Yard space I can't really comment on this directly, it's not something we were looking for.  Our friends do have yards, but most own by now.

Rental Cost  7 years ago we were paying £850 / month for a 2 bedroom garden flat in Emerson Park.  I'm guessing that you can do house and yard space on the top end of your budget in the Essex area.  Keep in mind most landlords aren't exactly pet friendly.  I think that's going to be your biggest pet related hurdle.

2.) Are there enough stores so you don't feel like you live out in the middle of no-where but also not too many so you feel like you live in a concrete jungle?
Yes, actually.  I lliked Brentwood.  It was green with parks and walks.  A large Sainsbury's right in the middle of town and some smaller shops for basics like sandwiches, pharmacy, coffee, etc.  Emerson Park was greener.  We moved for the space inside the flat and garden, but I hate driving and found the area to be more difficult to navigate with us living further away from the actual town, Hornchurch.

3.) Overpriced for what you get in the area? (ie: I know some of these areas are more expensive because they are near commuter hubs but is the pay off worth it for it being a beautiful city, lots of parks, easy to get out of town, low crime, nearby shopping w/o feeling congested, etc.)
Upminster, yes, a bit overpriced.  Brentwood, yes and no, but that's my norm.  Hornchurch is not a pretty town, but these places are all within a 15 minute drive of each other so getting some place a bit nicer is not that difficult.

4.) Historic - We both historic areas, beautiful old buildings, nice nature areas, etc.
I think you're going to have trouble packing this all into a town unless you're willing to drive a bit.  I can certainly recommend places to see in Chelmsford, Brentwood, and those areas, but if you want space with a yard you may have to drive to the closest beautiful old buildings or nice nature areas.  The balance of town and country that I think you're trying to strike is an age old problem and something everyone wants which means pricey.

Areas of that part of Essex I'm familiar with:
Shenfield - smaller town, has a pub, but not much variety.  Main stop on the train (not sure why, it's certainly not the largest), and very green.
Brentwood - larger town, lots of pubs!  Trains not as nice or quick.  But a lovely town with a fair bit to do.  It's on the A12 and near the M25.
Upminster - larger town, end of Greater London on the A12 and M25.  This means it has quick, less expensive trains and good links, but it makes up for that in property price.
Chelmsford - is it a town or city?  Not sure, either way, it's nice, we went there regularly.  It is a larger area with nice buildings, history, cinema, pubs, etc.  We didn't settle there because what we could afford was simply too far from the station for us.  We preferred Brentwood, which was about 20 minutes drive away.
Hornchurch/Emerson Park - again, a larger area, but not as nice.  The outlying area, like Emerson Park, was nicer.  It's a proper suburb with large, detached houses which means longer walk or drive to get to those open green spaces or into town.

All 5 of those are close to both London with easy assess to nature, close to smaller shop and within 15-30 minutes drive of bigger box stores, including Lakeside (a large mall) if you so wished.  They are close to main roads with fairly easy access to the North (MIL has family in Leeds, York & Tynemouth)

I wouldn't live in Basildon or the Ockendon areas.

I forced a move to London for a few reasons. 
1 - I was sick of my commute.  I spent roughly 3-4 hours per day on a train and that's when trains were running well.  To be fair, they did most of the time.  I felt like trains were worse from Liverpool Street (Greater Anglia line) than Fenchurch Street (C2C line) and recall more than a few times being stuck in the station trying to get home to Essex until 8pm.  Giving up that much of my day made me bitter.  I was up at up at 6am, left at 7am and didn't get home until 7:30pm.  In bed by 11pm to start the day again.
2 - cost of transportation.  I was spending tons and tons of money to stand for those 3-4 hours a day and when things go wrong on the train, you're stranded for hours.
3 - it simply felt like suburban hell in the end.  I never wanted to do trips to London at the weekend, I did them all week.  Even if I wanted to it felt like rail works were always on and lines closed.  Everything is in London.  Gig, theatre, show ?  Go to London, leave event early to catch last train home, just miss it, spend a fortune on a taxi, fall asleep in the taxi and wake up feeling disoriented and realise that you spent your last cash and taxi doesn't take a card.
Even though seemingly everyone commuted the shops and store times didn't change.  Dry cleaners, hair-dressers, car repair, sofa store, etc weren't open later or earlier so nothing could be done after work when I rocked home at 7-8pm.  I felt stranded.  Carry dry-cleaning all the way into London or take it all on the weekend, along with getting every chore which couldn't be fit in the 3.5 hours between arriving home and bedtime in the evening done.  Moving to London gave me time.  I lack space, but I gained so so much time.  I understand your priorities are different.  I was reluctant to post because of this.  But Essex, or some parts of it may suit your needs.  And no, those areas are very much not TOWIE. 

I never wanted a village.  I wanted a town.  One of our closest friends lives near Blackmore Village in Essex.  To be fair, it's because his family owns the farm there and it's now his, there's a lack of choice when one takes over the family farming business! We do have to drive to see him.  Not sure if there's a station, I think he uses Chelmsford (about 20 minute drive, but not something I'd want to do in rush hour!).  But there are a ton of villages: Chipping Ongar, Writtle, Margaretting, Ingatestone, which are pretty if you want a proper village.  If you're commuting to London, I'd recommend town over small village simply for ease until you get the lay of the land.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 09:36:35 AM by Larissa »


  • *
  • Posts: 3754

  • Liked: 585
  • Joined: Feb 2012
  • Location: Helensburgh, Argyll
Great post, Larissa!


  • *
  • Posts: 152

  • Moving to London area late 2019 - early 2020
    • Our band - Ockham's Razor
  • Liked: 42
  • Joined: Sep 2017
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Larissa,

That was a WONDERFUL post and exactly what I was looking for. Real life examples of what I would be facing each day.

Yeah we'll have to think about living IN London and trading off the rail expense for higher rent.

My partner REALLY doesn't want to live IN London. But maybe he's thinking like downtown London. He'd prefer that we live further north near his family in Newcastle but like you, I don't want to spend my life on a train. We did that here and ended up moving back up into Seattle because we were spending so much time commuting.

My concerns living IN London are primarily the size of housing and our dogs. We started renting houses here because A.) We were tired of small apartments and noisy upstairs/beside you neighbors and B.) It allowed the dogs to have a yard to run around in. I have a feeling if we tried going back into an apartment, we would be miserable.

My partner will be working, most likely, in whatever town we live in. Only I will be commuting to London.

I will be meeting with some of the team members who work in our London office next week when they are coming to town here in Seattle so I'm going to ask them about the "work from home 1/2 a week, work in the office 1/2 a week" thing and see if thats something they do. If so then I don't mind living further away. I'd even consider taking the train down Monday morning, staying in a hotel/airbnb/friends house for a night or two and then take the train back Wednesday night. Or whatever works. Unfortunately there is still a lot of "unknowns" at this time but I'm trying to just think of all the possible "what ifs" I an ahead of time and research them.

But your post was extremely helpful and informational. Thats the type of "reality" information I was looking for. Thank you!


  • *
  • Posts: 18235

  • Liked: 4985
  • Joined: Jun 2012
  • Location: Wokingham
Any chance of finding a new job up north instead?

I fear you guys wouldn’t enjoy the London lifestyle or standard of living.


  • *
  • Posts: 568

  • Liked: 70
  • Joined: Mar 2005
You're welcome!  I'm glad I went ahead and posted.

Now to properly over-step.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that the rail cost makes up for London house prices though.  Let's say you were thinking Chelmsford and budgeting £5,000 / year for rail.  Divided 12 = £416 / month.  You'll still probably need to budget around £150 / month for travel (based on travel 45 weeks of the year, using TFL zone 1-3 peak time travel card, pay as you go with weekly caps on).  That means your upper rent budget since travel has decreased becomes around £1,666. 

As an example, again from 6-7 years ago, we moved from the £850 / month, 2 bedroom / 1.5 bathroom, garden flat we lived in in Emerson Park to a smaller £1,800 / month 2 bedroom / 2 bathroom flat with with a balcony in East London.  It's not IN London as you're saying, I'm not sure anyone actually lives in downtown London, but it's just outside Central London, though in an increasingly popular and expensive area.  Both flats were purpose built so noise hasn't really been a problem.  Space is to some degree.  We have enough space for our lifestyle, our cat, and our small collection of plants (I'm a keen patio / balcony gardener - if you have any tips on how to not kill coriander I'm happy to hear!), but not dogs.  I agree that you'll probably want a house and good sized garden for dogs.

That brings me to, I think your budget of up to £1,400 was potentially do-able for the area I'm familiar with in Essex.  I do not think you'll cut it in London on that.  A terraced house (not semi-detached or detached as you've requested), 2-3 bedroom with a small garden (not a balcony or patio garden, but small nonetheless) in the less expensive Zone 3 area close-ish to me will set you back £2,000 - £2,600 / month.  While your requests  as stated in your original post may be in-line with the commuter belt, they are really not in-line going much inside the M25 / Greater London.

You will absolutely get more space at a more reasonable price as you near the edges of Greater London and the commuter belts.  That brings me to the personal.
Why do you need 3 bedrooms?
What are your priorities?  Location or size?  You may not will not get both at your budget in London.
Do you have experience with London and commuter belt sized properties?
Will your partner be working a full-time job?  Having someone take on the greater home, pets and other chores would have made my Essex to London commute much more tolerable in some ways.
Where are you looking that you're finding 3 bedrooms with a garden for £700 - £1,400 / month?  No really, we may want to move eventually and I'm always gathering ideas!
How set is your budget?
As KFDancer suggested, are you able to get outside London?  Tynemouth (suburb of Newcastle) is nice and honestly one of the 2 places I'd currently consider living outside London.  Husband won't do it - too dark & cold in winter.  But *bleep*, we could buy an entire, much larger 3 bedroom freehold house there for the same amount of as our down payment on our London 2 bedroom leasehold flat!

Things I'd seriously consider asking your co-workers.
- Where exactly they live - Londoners and commuters in particular like to discuss travel and complain about house prices.  It's a national past-time.  I feel confident that you can be quite forthright in questioning them.
- Flexible working, what's possible within your company and how easy is that to access.
- Other benefits, for example my company put the money upfront for the annual travel pass and I paid back, interest free, over the year.  This helped us a lot.

I think I just really proved what I said above, discussion of travel and property prices - we love it!  I think all your research is great!  I must slowly back away from this thread before I've analysed every area I could, might, potentially someday half-consider living...


  • *
  • Posts: 49

  • Liked: 6
  • Joined: Apr 2009
I live in Witham, which is close to the areas you are thinking of in Essex, and have travelled into London by train for the last 16 years. I concur completely with Larissa in terms of the experiences, and would just add that the train service currently is the worst it has been for a very long time. However, allegedly this should be improving in the next year when the weekend closures are supposed to be stopping (we haven't had a weekend service for about 4 years) and new trains are brought in. I will believe that once I see it however!

If you do come this way, please do not go for anything that is on a branch line of the train (and that includes Braintree). If there are problems on the line, that is the first service to be cut, and, as the line is a single track, there aren't that may trains scheduled on it anyway. You would be much better off somewhere along the main line.

Cost wise, if it helps, I pay just under £5k for my annual season ticket, but I only go as far as Stratford. It is more to go into Liverpool St.

I also wouldn't live in Braintree as in my opinion its not really a very nice town, and the amenities are scarce (though there is Freeport shopping centre out of town which has a cinema etc). Witham is not a lot better however, but at least it is on the main line and A12 accessible. There is a lot of local concern about safety as it seems like crime is on the rise, and many people are ascribing this to the lack of a visible police presence and the shutting of the police stations. Witham has closed its police station permanently and Braintree is now only part time; meaning the closest local police station is Chelmsford. The perception is that criminals will take chances now they wouldn't have before on the assumption that any police officer is at least half an hour away so the likelihood of getting caught is minimal. Whether that is true or not I don't know, but I have noticed that there does seem to be a lot more local crime.

The other thing to mention is that car parking at train stations is at a premium, and fills up quickly. If you aren't walking distance to a train station you will also need to factor that into both cost and time (i.e. you may need to go in earlier to make sure you get a space).


  • *
  • Posts: 152

  • Moving to London area late 2019 - early 2020
    • Our band - Ockham's Razor
  • Liked: 42
  • Joined: Sep 2017
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Thank you Flibbertigibbet! That is all great information to know that I wouldn't have known otherwise.


  • *
  • Posts: 155

  • Liked: 78
  • Joined: May 2017
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
Hi! I know this is a really late reply, but I live in Hitchin so I wanted to add my little two cents.

To start, I think it's worth noting that I was a bit naive about living in Hertfordshire. It's so close to London, which I liked and was excited to go in and visit my friends all of the time, but now that I'm here, that rarely happens. Also, depsite Hitchin being a decent sized town, it's pretty old school. Everything shuts early. I come from a big city in CA, so this was really hard for me to get used to. Now for your questions..

How is the commute via train?
Hitchin to London is a super easy route - there are fast and slow trains, but in my opinion, they're all pretty timely. Thing is, the trains are pretty screwed right now. It's not supposed to last forever (so they say), but the price is not worth the service at this current time. I work in Royston, which is 15 mins north by train and even getting there can be a mission sometimes.

Are there enough stores?
We definitely have enough grocery stores, and we have a decent high street for other shopping. There are some open late stores (Tesco, gas stations, etc.), but none that are open all night. Hitchin has a pretty good balance of shops - not too many. Plus, we are really close to Stevenage (don't live there) for any bigger shopping that may need to be done. As well as more restaurants and a movie theater.

Overpriced for what you get in the area?
I'm really not sure. I moved here from the Bay Area so it's all subjective for me. My husband and I pay £835 for a large one bedroom flat near the town center. We used to live closer to the train station and it was cheaper. It does feel like it should be cheaper, but I don't mind the cost. We can comfortably commute to London for work and get everything we need from town. There's lots of parks and nature around where we live, and there's lots of walking trails just right outside of town.

Historic?
YES! I love the town center - it's so cute and quaint. And a lot of the houses are old with lots of character. It was what I was most excited for when I moved here.

You could also try looking into some of the smaller surrounding villages! My husband is from Ickleford and it retains a lot of the small village vibe.

Good luck and keep us updated!
California, USA

Relationship started: October 2014
Engaged: September 2016
Married: December 23, 2016
Priority visa application: March 31, 2017
Biometrics: April 13, 2017
Document confirmation: April 18, 2017
Decision email: June 2, 2017
Outcome: Approved!


  • *
  • Posts: 152

  • Moving to London area late 2019 - early 2020
    • Our band - Ockham's Razor
  • Liked: 42
  • Joined: Sep 2017
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Thanks for the post Haylee.

Hitchin is one of the places I've looked at. I mean, I haven't pin pointed SPECIFIC towns but more general areas based on commute times. :)

I've made sure to note how far things that I go to frequently now are from my home (both distance & travel time) so that I can use that as a reference point when looking over there. For instance, while I don't go to the mall often it is where the movie theater is and a bunch of the surrounding stores. So I noted that is 5 miles from my house. So when I Google Mapped Hitchin to Stevenage and see its 6 miles, I know "OK, thats about the same distance."  It gives me a little better gauge. Same thing when I'm looking at rental houses and they show how far away the nearest train station is. I can compare it to the same distance from our house to the grocery store or the airport. Etc. :) And I'm making sure not to just compare distance but also to compare the actual travel time (which Google Maps is for also since they also so traffic volumes and adjust the travel time accordingly).

Yeah Seattle is getting right up there with the Bay Area. One I just looked at so I could give an example: $2000 for a 1 bedroom, 600 square foot apartment in downtown. Another $2814 for a 1 bedroom, 924 square foot. Just stupid! I live 15 miles south of Seattle and myself, my husband and our friend are renting a 1,730 square foot house with 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2 car garage, 2 living rooms, and a huge yard for $2000.  Commute times driving into Seattle are about 1 hr in the morning and about an hour and 1/2 in the evening.  So I don't mind living further out and getting more for the money.

My big thing is, with 2 dogs, I dont want them stuck in an apartment or a house with a tiny square of grass. So when looking for houses to rent over there, I'm looking at places that have a decent lawn. I know we won't get something the same size as we have here unless we go WAY out (who knows, maybe we'll get lucky) but we'll be patient. I am just trying to weed out the definite DO NOT LIVE HERE locations first to help me focus when looking.

So thank you for all the info!



  • *
  • Posts: 4458

  • Liked: 958
  • Joined: Apr 2016


I've made sure to note how far things that I go to frequently now are from my home (both distance & travel time) so that I can use that as a reference point when looking over there. For instance, while I don't go to the mall often it is where the movie theater is and a bunch of the surrounding stores. So I noted that is 5 miles from my house. So when I Google Mapped Hitchin to Stevenage and see its 6 miles, I know "OK, thats about the same distance."  It gives me a little better gauge. Same thing when I'm looking at rental houses and they show how far away the nearest train station is. I can compare it to the same distance from our house to the grocery store or the airport. Etc. :) And I'm making sure not to just compare distance but also to compare the actual travel time (which Google Maps is for also since they also so traffic volumes and adjust the travel time accordingly).


Just a word of warning - distances can be deceiving. The road network and traffic make everything take much longer than it did from suburbs back home ... My office is "12 miles" from my house but the commute is anywhere from 45 mins to an hour and a half.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk



  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 26873

  • Liked: 3596
  • Joined: Jan 2007

Just a word of warning - distances can be deceiving. The road network and traffic make everything take much longer than it did from suburbs back home ... My office is "12 miles" from my house but the commute is anywhere from 45 mins to an hour and a half.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Definitely - there’s a Sainsbury’s store just 2 miles from my house... but there is a level crossing and 3 sets of traffic lights on the way, and it can get really clogged up... so, depending on the traffic and train times, it can take anywhere from 5 minutes to 30 minutes to get there in the car!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


  • *
  • Posts: 18235

  • Liked: 4985
  • Joined: Jun 2012
  • Location: Wokingham
Yup, I lived less than 2 miles from my job when I moved to the UK and it never took less than 30 minutes driving.  Yes, I could have walked faster but it wasn't a pedestrian friendly commute.  And rain.


  • *
  • Posts: 3547

  • Liked: 537
  • Joined: Jun 2014
  • Location: Derbyshire, UK

Just a word of warning - distances can be deceiving. The road network and traffic make everything take much longer than it did from suburbs back home ... My office is "12 miles" from my house but the commute is anywhere from 45 mins to an hour and a half.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

OMG, THIS!

To get to Derby, the good shopping centre, it's like 13 miles away and it take about 35-45 minutes to get there. Just figure everything taking longer and you'll be okay. Especially in the city...
The usual. American girl meets British guy. They fall into like, then into love. Then there was the big decision. The American traveled across the pond to join the Brit. And life was never the same again.


  • *
  • Posts: 152

  • Moving to London area late 2019 - early 2020
    • Our band - Ockham's Razor
  • Liked: 42
  • Joined: Sep 2017
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Totally understand about distances/times. I guess that's the good thing about coming from a big city with some of the worst traffic in the country, I'm already used to short journeys taking much longer then they should. :)  Also having already been over to visit 3 times previously, I'm aware of the differences of the roads (ie: much smaller, fewer lanes meaning more congestion).

Even here outside of Seattle, to go to the movie theater which is 5 miles away, it can take between 15 minutes (if I catch all the green lights and there are not many people on the road) or 30-40 minutes (or longer) during more busy times. Again, at least here the Google Maps app does a very good job adjusting travel times for traffic. I know when we used it over there, it did a pretty good job as well. Not sure if there is a more popular travel/map app you all use. I don't like stand alone GPS anymore. Even when we were traveling out in the middle of nowhere-Scotland, I'd just download the maps before we left.


Sponsored Links





 

coloured_drab