Blast from the H.O. for E.U.

Dear XXX

As Home Secretary, I take immense pride that so many EU citizens like you have made your home here.

Safeguarding the rights of EU citizens in the UK has always been our first priority and the agreement we reached with the EU earlier this year did just that. The rights that you and your family currently have are protected which include access to healthcare, benefits and pensions.

Away from the negotiations, my team in the Home Office have been working hard to develop the service that you’ll use to get your settled status. This work will continue as we make sure that the system and processes are rigorously tested and meet every requirement ahead of the launch.

Today I am able to announce in more detail what this system will look like.  https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families

Most importantly, the application process is designed to be simple. Most people will only need to complete three sections to prove their identity, show that they live here and declare that they have no serious criminal convictions. We will also check employment and benefits records we already hold in government which for many people will mean that their proof of living here is automatic.  We hope therefore most people will not need to do anything beyond typing in personal details.

What’s more, settled status will cost less than the fee for a British passport - £65 and £32.50 for children under 16. For those who already have valid permanent residence or indefinite leave to remain documentation, they will be able to exchange it for free.

There will be support for the vulnerable and those without access to a computer, and we’re working with EU citizens’ representatives and embassies to ensure the system works for everyone.

I should stress that you do not need to do anything just yet. The scheme will open later this year and we are on track to open the scheme fully by 30 March 2019. The deadline for applications to the scheme will be 30 June 2021 so there will be plenty of time for you to apply and there are absolutely no quotas for applications.

In the meantime, please do share this message with your friends and family so that they too can stay up to date through our mailing list.

I hope you will agree with me that this is an important step towards the commitment we made to you and your families so that you can continue your lives here.   

Yours sincerely,


Sajid Javid
Home Secretary

__________________________

dated 19:45 on 21 June 2018

Which leave me:

Assuming I have to register as EU, even though I'm Irish, as I have a non-EU dependent in tow. They say I don't have to register if I'm Irish, but if so, what happens to the status of non-EU dependent?  I'm happy to register, but am paranoid that if I do as they say and don't,  the Daughter would be torpedoed as Irish can have automatic "settled" status in the UK as it is, and I can't bring in an adult dependent on those rules. The new web page says:  "You will not need to apply if you’re an Irish citizen or have indefinite leave to remain, but your family members from outside the UK and Ireland will." So does that mean I ~can't~ or don't "need to"? And if I don't, what are the implications for the Daughter?

Having to either buy a smartphone to submit the paperwork, or prepare to provide paper copies and mail it all in. Which will assuredly delay things.

Assuming the Daughter is allowed to register, thinking we have to get her fingerprinted and photographed. Unless they count the "Family Member of an EU Citizen" residence card as a biometric document. I assume they will?

Wondering. None of this happens unless Parliament approves of it, so we're still hanging in the air, although at least we now know what process they plan to implement if they get the approvals.  At least we know what it will look like. Maybe.

They say I don't have to register if I'm Irish,

Where does is say that?

Wondering. None of this happens unless Parliament approves of it, so we're still hanging in the air, although at least we now know what process they plan to implement if they get the approvals.  At least we know what it will look like. Maybe.

I tuned in to a radio phone-in show the other night, just as a Scot was complaining that Scots in Scotland don't have a party they can vote for that wants out of the EU, whiile all the millions of Scots living in England do. Then he went on to this and said the UK haven't heard back from the EU yet to see if the same will be offered to the 1 million Brits usng the EU's "free movment" in the 33 EEA countries.

So it seems you will still be hanging? It's been 2 years since the UK suggested this and Germany's Merkle refused to guarantee anything for those on EU rules then, so I wouldn't hold your breath. But she has lost her power in the EU now, so perhaps the other EEA countires will sort this soon? It's why all these that can, are rushing for British citizenship to secure their stay in the UK/apply for citizenship  for the EEA country they are in.

However, because 1 in 4 of those EEA citizens using the EU's "Free Movement" headed for the UK, there are millions that the UK will have to look at. Plus there are also all the non-EEA citizens that have used the European Court of Justice Rulings/routes to the UK too and who would also like to be offered a chance to stay. It's millions for the UK to process, but not many Brits using "Free Movement" for the other 33 EEA countries. It's these sheer numbers that is why the UK is starting to at least get these multi millions of foreign nationals registered with their biometrics, photos etc.

What we do know is that to be considered for a chance to remain in the UK, they must register within the set timeframe. There also seems to be different things that might be offered for those who would have the EU's PR by Brexit and those who have arrived after the UK voted to leave, and perhaps those who have not been lawfully in the UK and wouldn't make the 5 years of lawful stay at all times, for the EU's PR?

However it seems the UK and the EU have agreed that some of these can be banned even if an agreement reached. Although it still seems that "nothing is agreed until everyithing is agreed"? I'm still not bothering to read it until everything is signed and sealed... or not.

Yeah, they have said some good things about how they will process us EU nationals for the settlement visa.  There are more EU migrants to Germany then the UK.  The difference is they have always had to register with the authorities in Germany. 

Well the difference, regarding assurances, is that we chose to leave.

This, like much else in the negotiations, would seem baffling from the Continental perspective - we had all of these things.

Where does is say that?

Clilck on the link.

You will not need to apply if you’re an Irish citizen or have indefinite leave to remain, but your family members from outside the UK and Ireland will.

There are more EU migrants to Germany then the UK. 

Lets not forget that now, it isn't only EEA citzens that can use the EU rules to get a EEA country that they want they to live in. The European Court of Justice said that non-EEA too could also move to any EEA country they want to, also in unlimted numbers.

We don't know how many immigrants have come to the UK using the EU rules. The UK shows the immigration stats by their citizenship. This makes it look like EU immigration is lower than it really is, and that immigration under the tougther requirements of UK immigraion rules, is highter. UK laws = crimimal checks and some being banned, TB tests, English tests, medical knoweledge tests for the NHS etc

The difference is they have always had to register with the authorities in Germany. 

EU rules are very lax and that will end. Registration didn't stop people going to Germany on EU rules and therefore didn't stop the rapid rise of the new, anti-uncontrolled immigration party in Germany too.

The last I read of that docuiment for EU immigrants, the EU has said that they don't expect the same agreement for all the non-EEA citizens in the UK:  that those on Singh and Derivative rights will not covered;  that they know that UK laws mean that the UK does not have to keep to any agreement as under UK laws any UK governmnet can change laws they don't like. etc.

The other problem some might not be aware of, arer the changes the UK were already bringing in. The only way the EEA countries that have been affected by the EU's "free movement" can try to control these numbers, is to make their country less atractive than other EEA countries. Apart from Switzerland of course, who had a diffferent idea to stop these. Some of these new laws take ages in the UK but were already well on the way before the Brexit vote and will still be used. Some might chose not to stay when they don't get what they expected to be given/continue to have what they are already being given?

Clilck on the link.

You will not need to apply if you’re an Irish citizen or have indefinite leave to remain, but your family members from outside the UK and Ireland will.

Thanks.

I wonder if they will distinguish between those who have come from the Common Travel Area, of which the Republc is part of,  and those who didn't? I noticed they are doing this for Irish citizens wanting UK welfare.

That guide does seem to have a few holes in it, but perhaps it is just badly worded?

EDIT
 It seems that the Statement of Intent is just as badly worded. Everyone is trying to work out what it might mean for them and getting different answers, or not the answer they wanted

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/718237/EU_Settlement_Scheme_SOI_June_2018.pdf

They say I don't have to register if I'm Irish, but if so, what happens to the status of non-EU dependent?  I'm happy to register, but am paranoid that if I do as they say and don't,  the Daughter would be torpedoed as Irish can have automatic "settled" status in the UK as it is, and I can't bring in an adult dependent on those rules. T

I'm reading it as your non-Irish daughter will have to register. It says you may register if you wish to.

Question. What happens if the EU stops Ireland from their citizens being allowed to move to the UK under the agreement the UK has, and these have missed the time to Register??

Thanks.

I wonder if they will distinguish between those who have come from the Common Travel Area, of which the Republc is part of,  and those who didn't? I noticed they are doing this for Irish citizens wanting UK welfare.

That guide does seem to have a few holes in it, but perhaps it is just badly worded?

EDIT
 It seems that the Statement of Intent is just as badly worded. Everyone is trying to work out what it might mean for them and getting different answers, or not the answer they wanted

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/718237/EU_Settlement_Scheme_SOI_June_2018.pdf

Yeah, pp 25-26 seem to say she's going to be ok.
Fingers are crossed.

I'm reading it as your non-Irish daughter will have to register. It says you may register if you wish to.

Question. What happens if the EU stops Ireland from their citizens being allowed to move to the UK under the agreement the UK has, and these have missed the time to Register??

Heaven only knows. Then again, there's the border with Northern Ireland issue up there swinging like a sword on a thread....

As soon as registration is available, I'll be registering. Once I'm "official" I assume we'll trot the Daughter's application through. Unless they let us file together - in which case, we will. It can all go in the same envelope, since we'll have to be registering by paper anyway.

We fit all their boxes - dependency existed for years prior to arrival, still exists, will continue to exist. We will have been here for 3.6 (ish) years at 31 Dec 2020, so we'd be (I assume) classified as "pre-settled" until our five years' eligiblity expired in May 2012. We've had the required CSI, even though I keep seeing that they no longer care about the CSI. We haven't so much as a citation for littering between the two of us. My finances are in decent shape. She has good character references here, is on track to finish her first graduate degree and will hopefully be undertaking her second one shortly thereafter.

I'm still checking out France, etc., just in case.

Heaven only knows. Then again, there's the border with Northern Ireland issue up there swinging like a sword on a thread....

The Irish Ambassador said that was France, to try to stop Brexit. Other EU countries have a border with european countries that are not a member of the EU and that isn't a problem then as far as the EU is concerned. Norway isn't in the EU's customs union and all they have are cameras on the side of the road and no border stops.

We've had the required CSI, even though I keep seeing that they no longer care about the CSI.

Yep, first they said they must be lawfully in the UK on Brexit and now they say residence and other requirements to meet...if it is all approved by Parliament and the EU offer the same for the 1 million Brits... The immigration rules always trump any guidance, so I don't know what they will end up being.

I'm still checking out France, etc., just in case.

I read that the German healthcare system has a better rep than the French, as in, covers people during their old age?

Unless you can get your own EEA country to fund all your medical care in France, through the EU's S1 system?  If they will, then you have the choice of any EEA country to retire to as the Irish government will pay for your medical care. Under the S1, the retiree presents their S1 when they want medical care in that EEA country they have retired to, and then that EEA country claims all that medical debt directly from the country that issued the S1.

Perhaps have a look at the Irish government website and see if they will issue their S1 to all Irish citizens? The UK will now only give an S1 to those of state pension age and who have worked and contributed to the UK, but the Irish government will have their own rules.

Perhaps have a look at the Irish government website and see if they will issue their S1 to all Irish citizens? The UK will now only give an S1 to those of state pension age and who have worked and contributed to the UK, but the Irish government will have their own rules.

No, I'm a "self-pay" kinda gal. (AKA, I haven't contributed to the Irish system financially so logically I should not be on their payout.) I do have CSI as part of my pension package that is good world-wide, although it's got a sturdy excess and co-pays. And we will purchase what is required for the Daughter. Otherwise:

Austria  -Doesn't seem like a good idea, right now, given how "things" are there, politically.

Belgium - Checking.

Bulgaria - too close to The Bear (Russia).
Croatia - Same. And not sure how politically stable it is.
Republic of Cyprus - too hot.

Czech Republic - Bear problems [edit - remove bear], language issues. Climate ok, cost of living ok - checking further.

Denmark - probably doable, waiting on tax info. Preferential tax treatment of pension.
Estonia - doable, Daughter has a friend there. Language issue. Potential Bear issues.

Finland - haven't looked at it yet. Suspect a massive language issue.

France - doable. Have to buy French private insurance at $250 a month, then can buy into their social network. Income taxes are somewhat unfathomable.

Germany - not terribly welcoming, would be good if Daughter gets a place in a Uni there (for free). EU regs indicate they'd have to take us. (Well, me, and her as long as she was a student. Then it gets iffy.)

Greece - too hot.
Hungary - Bear problems. We do have relatives we've never met, there, though.
Ireland - won't take an adult dependent relative. (EU regs only work on countries other than your own.)

Italy - north might work (in the mountains), south too hot. Politically kinda iffy right now, but investigating. And a Language problem - I only know how to cuss and order food in Italian.

Latvia, Lithuania - Bear problems? Have not investigated yet.
Luxembourg - haven't checked yet, suspect finances would preclude it.
Malta - too hot.

Netherlands - they'd take us, but taxes would be a killer. Not sure I can support both of us decenly there
Poland - Bear problems. Language problems.

Portugal - could do it, have to find somewhere with very cool summers, up north there I think. Preferential tax treatment of pension. Some language issues, I think not insurmountable.

Romania - culture/language/Bear problems.
Slovakia, Slovenia - not sure how politically stable. Bear problems.

Spain - doable, if I could find a part with a cooler climate. Both of us can manage a little Spanish, as well.

Sweden - woooo, too expensive for us!

UK - we're trying.


Basically, wherever we go has to not have extended periods of heat above about 80-85F (26-30). Short bursts we could manage, but not weeks of it. Cold is not an issue - as long as we can put enough clothes on/heat our home sufficiently. They have to accept an adult dependent child (which, according to EU rules, they all should). I can go up to 30% of my income for taxes/health insurance charges, but not really a lot more. (The higher those are, the cheaper housing needs to be.)  There needs to be enough English language used so that we can get along, and, ultimately, the Daughter will need to be able to earn a living there. (Although she may relocate later on.)  I am concerned about the political stability of a lot of the smaller Eastern EU countries, and those within throwing distance of Russia. 

So, it appears we have a few options, so far, if the UK throws us out. We are really hoping they do not, however.

The Irish Ambassador said that was France, to try to stop Brexit. Other EU countries have a border with european countries that are not a member of the EU and that isn't a problem then as far as the EU is concerned. Norway isn't in the EU's customs union and all they have are cameras on the side of the road and no border stops.

Of course, one might also consider that a lot of people on both sides of the Irish border consider Northern Ireland as part of Ireland (an occupied province, as it were, under control of a foreign government). So the whole issue is a bit "tetchy-er" than other EU countries bordering non-EU countries, politically.

It will be interesting to see how that all plays out. Hopefully it's been calm enough for long enough that persons with short fuses (on both sides) don't self-ignite all that mess again.

I can tell you from personal experience that Czechia has no bear problem.  Language and culture maybe, but France is just as likely to be invaded by Russians