Living in the UK

Hi again! So, I am still doing lots of research trying to figure out if we can feasibly afford to live in the UK. I have zero desire to live in London or anywhere close >45 min...so, not being concerned about being able to afford housing in London should make this easier.

I have a good friend who is from America (married to a Brit) and lives just outside of London. She shares information with me about their bills and costs and I can't help but think we would be possibly even saving money?!

My husband has a great job, works for IBM here in Houston, but I am really craving a change of pace in life with our 4 kids and I HATE the weather. It seems from my research that the cities outside of London don't really pay as well as they do here in the States. IS that accurate? Is the cost of living in the other cities more palatable?

As far as monthly bills go, it seems that we pay for way more things than we would in the UK and even those items we do pay for that are the same would be less expensive.

some examples....We can pay in upwards of $300 a month in the summer for Electricity here in Houston, in the winters somewhere between 75-100 dollars.

Cost for car insurance is about 700-800 per year per vehicle and this is for a minivan.

We pay County taxes ($5000/year) on top of our mortgage, homeowners insurance ($1500/year), cable and internet costs are about 100/month...we also pay a ton for health insurance here. I would be the only one in our family that we would have to pay the NHS fee as my husband and children are UKC. We would use the state school system, so that means we would no longer be paying for private schools here in Houston.

Anyways, talk to me about cost of living in other cities in the UK other than London. What sort of wages are typical for someone in the tech industry (I know this is incredibly variable, but in general do you make half the amount as you would in the states)? Any resources or personal advice or experience are greatly appreciated!

Hey,

I have a good friend who is from America (married to a Brit) and lives just outside of London. She shares information with me about their bills and costs and I can't help but think we would be possibly even saving money?!

That could be the case. In general, groceries are cheaper in the UK (not all of them, but a lot are), as are broadband/TV bills and mobile phone bills. Not sure about general utilities though. Then of course, you have 'free' healthcare (paid for by taxes and your IHS surcharge which you pay when you apply for the visa).

Used cars are also much cheaper here in the UK than in the US. However, actually running a car and transport in general are much more expensive here, as is eating out, and things like clothes and toiletries are generally more as well (I always stock up on clothes etc.when I visit the US).

My husband has a great job, works for IBM here in Houston, but I am really craving a change of pace in life with our 4 kids and I HATE the weather. It seems from my research that the cities outside of London don't really pay as well as they do here in the States. IS that accurate? Is the cost of living in the other cities more palatable?

The UK as a whole pays a lot less in average salaries than the US. For many jobs, you can expect to take approximately a 50% cut in salary when moving to the UK.

According to a Google search, the average salary of an IBM employee in the US is about $76,000, while the average IBM employee salary in the UK is £45,000 ($57,000)... which is a very good salary for the UK (the UK national average salary is £27,000).

While London does generally have higher salaries than the rest of the country, it also has a much higher cost of living, so I'm not sure how much that higher salary actually helps.

As far as monthly bills go, it seems that we pay for way more things than we would in the UK and even those items we do pay for that are the same would be less expensive.

some examples....We can pay in upwards of $300 a month in the summer for Electricity here in Houston, in the winters somewhere between 75-100 dollars.

Since UK houses do not have air conditioning, we pay a lot less in the summer for electricity/gas than in the winter. Not to mention that our houses are much smaller in general, so there's a lot less space to heat/cool.

I have a small three-bedroom, semi-detached house (I would estimate less than 1,000 sq. ft.), and I pay about £300 per YEAR for electricity and gas combined. However, I do live alone and I often work overseas (for between 3 and 5 months a year), so my bills are much lower than other households. I believe the average household pays about £1,200 per year.

Cost for car insurance is about 700-800 per year per vehicle and this is for a minivan.

My car insurance is about £450 per year - though that's for comprehensive cover, zero excess (deductible) and added extras... if I hadn't added those, I could have got it for about £275 (that's with a UK licence held for over 10 years and 8 years no claims bonus).

However, as you will be new drivers in the UK with no UK licence or driving history, you'll find it's likely to be a lot MORE than what you're paying now, at least to start with, as you'll be considered high-risk drivers.

I would estimate maybe £1,000+ per vehicle for the first couple of years (possibly more as both of you will be new drivers in the UK).

You'll only be able to legally drive on your US licences for the first 12 months after moving to the UK. So, you'll need to take and pass the UK driving tests in order to continue driving after 12 months... it can take several months to pass them (plus it's a good idea to take a few lessons to learn how to pass the practical test), so I would get started on that fairly soon after arriving.

If you do not have full UK licences by the end of the 12 months, you will be treated like learner drivers and will have to display L plates on the car and be accompanied at all times by someone over 21 who has held a full UK licence for at least 3 years.

We pay County taxes ($5000/year) on top of our mortgage, homeowners insurance ($1500/year), cable and internet costs are about 100/month...we also pay a ton for health insurance here. I would be the only one in our family that we would have to pay the NHS fee as my husband and children are UKC. We would use the state school system, so that means we would no longer be paying for private schools here in Houston.

I live in Lincoln, which is about 120 miles north of London, in the East of England (I guess it's kind of East Midlands). It's one of the cheapest parts of the UK to live in.

My average bills (3-bed semi detached house), per month:
- Mortgage: £515
- Insurance associated with mortgage (home, life, income/sickness protection etc.): £133
- Council tax: £100
- Sky satellite TV/high speed broadband/landline: £42
- TV licence: £13
- Gas/electricity: £22 (direct debit - this amount changes depending on my average usage)
- Water: not sure exactly as I can't log into my online account at the moment, but I'd guess at about £25 per month

Total: about £850 per month

On top of that, I also pay, per month:
- Gym membership: £34
- Petrol/gas: about £50-100 (depending on how much I use the car)
- Groceries: about £120-150
- Union membership: £13
- Netflix: £6

Anyways, talk to me about cost of living in other cities in the UK other than London.

Not sure about other cities (than Lincoln), but you can do a cost comparison between Houston and various UK cities (or between London and other UK cities) here:
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp

If you were thinking of further north, say.... Scotland:

We are in Glasgow. We moved here from California. We pay  £40 a month for electric for a large 3 bedroom flat. I use the (electric) oven a lot as I'm a "home baker" and someone is pretty much at home all the time. The utility company takes a flat payment every month that covers the higher and lower costs as the seasons change. Our use goes up in the winter because it's basically dark from 4:00pm to 8:30am and so we tend to run more lights, and the occasional space heater, etc. In the summer it's light from 4:00am to 10:30pm, so we don't need to use as much on lighting, of course! I pay £14 a month for gas. Our heating and hot water are on the same system, an energy-efficient gas boiler. The flat is so well-insulated, with newer dual-pane windows and being in the middle of the block (flats above and below us as insulation) that we didn't turn the heat on until December last year. (But we really did need it then - it was a harsh winter, I am told.) I usually use cold water for washing clothes, so that keeps the costs down a bit.

Water and Sewer are included in council tax bill. (Occupiers of the property pay what is basically the property tax, not the owners. So your council tax will vary depending on the value of the property.) Water/sewer rates are £24/£28 pounds a month (over a 10 month billing cycle. For some reason, there are two months not billed every spring). My internet, which includes a pay-per-use house phone and a cell phone with unlimited calls and texts, is £25 a month. There are enough over-the-air channels that I don't subscribe to a cable tv service. There are quite a large number of internet providers here, unlike in the States, so you can definitely shop around. The same goes with energy providers.

Housing cost depends on location and city. We are paying a bit more than "average" because of the location of our home. (We consider it a "convenience tax". We could cut our rent by at least 25% or more by either relocating or purchasing a home outright.) If you look on Rightmove.co.uk you can get a sense of rental and purchase costs in various towns/cities/areas.

So, my housing costs up here are about twice what KSand pays. 

The "free" NHS is a huge discount, though. In the States my daughter's private insurance policy would be costing about $850  - $900 a month in premiums, with deductibles and copays. Here, due to our particular immigration status as EU, she has to have a private comprehensive policy. We pay the equivalent of about $50 a month for it, although she still has access to the NHS. (I have free comprehensive as part of my retirement package, thank God.) Dental checkups are free, twice a year and their charges for work are very low compared to the USA.  Medicine, if you have to pay for it, is dirt cheap. Example - a pack of birth control pills that in the States would be over $40 is about $5 here. Warning - you cannot get anything with an antibiotic in it (ointment, bandages, etc. - Neosporin and similar) OTC here.

We have an excellent public transportation system here, and so do not need a car. We are also within walking distance of most of the places we need to go.  An "all day" pass on our local bus is £4.50 if you buy it on the bus, but there are cheaper options for monthly/quarterly/annual passes. If you are over 60, public transportation is free.

Most of the grocery stores will deliver for a very nominal rate. (I think I pay about £4 a month and can have as many deliveries as I want for that cost.) If you look at the food cost in dollars, it seems to me that we pay more (dollars-wise) for things like beef, but much less for milk, cheese, eggs, and bread (etc.)  For instance, on my last shop I bought:

a pound and a half of very good quality cheddar (on sale) for $4.60
the same amount of lean steak mince (5% fat - on sale) for $4.30
two quarts of orange juice for $1.98 (regular price)
fifteen eggs for $2.65 (regular price)
half-a-pound of fresh salmon (on sale) for $4.40
one-pound loaf of brown bread for $1.34

If I wanted a nice cut of beef to roast, I'd be looking at a minimum of about $7 a pound from shops like Tesco (go to Tesco.com to shop online). The quality would be acceptable, but not really top-notch (for that, you'd need a butcher or a higher-end store). I recently paid Waitrose about $5 (sale price) for 1/4 pound of sliced roast at the deli counter.

Fruit season-restricted and more expensive, overall, than I used to pay. It's hard to get a really good tomato here. (Root crops are always available and usually cheap. Pre-mixed salad greens are very cheap in summer.) I just paid, on sale, about $.75 for a lemon, though (whereas in the USA I'd get them five-for-a-dollar). I just spent the equivalent of $1.50 on one smallish ear of fresh corn-on-the-cob (from Spain) and it's nothing to shout about. Berries are seasonal here, as well, and good quality. For other things - a pack of decent ramen here is about $.75, whereas in the States they were ten-for-a-dollar.  Coffee beans are quite high, flavored coffee is non-existent; tea is cheap, flavored teas require a specialty shop (if you can find one).

Clothing (shoes, particularly) unless bought at the clothing equivalent of Walmart (Primark), kitchen appliances ($500 for a cheaper-end Kitchenaid mixer), and other durable goods are obscenely expensive here.  Restaurant meals (mid-range) are more expensive. A Happy Meal at MickyD's would run you about $5.00 Alcohol is dirt cheap, although American booze now has a 25% EU penalty tariff slapped onto it.

I am now retired, so not looking for work, but when I first arrived I was seeing jobs with pay at roughly 1/3 to 1/2 of what I was paid for similar work in the USA.

Hope that helps!

(PS - I spent some time in Houston in the Summer. Scotland is NOTHING like Houston in the Summer. It's absolutely gorgeous here! And headline news if it cracks 80F.)

I'm an hour-ish outside of London.

After 5 years here, I was able to qualify for a mortgage (have to build credit all over again).  I am fortunate enough to have been able to afford a "detached house".  It's not overly common to own a home that is unattached at both sides.  My house is 4 bedroom (how size is determined here) but only 1200 square feet.  I'm in a desireable part of the country with an excellent school system.  I could sell my house today for £650,000. 

Taxes on homes are mostly paid up front.  The "stamp duty" on my house is £22,500 at the time of purchase.  My annual "council tax" or real estate tax is £2,500 per year and rises 5-6% annually.

Utility bills are definitely less - because my house is small!  I pay £1200 a year in gas/electric.  Also keep in mind most people do not have:  air conditioning, dishwashers, dryers, etc.  Not having those conveniences keeps the utilities lower.

Car insurance is a killer those first few years, but will soon drop.  I find it comparable to my US insurance.

When I moved here 8 years ago, I thought the cost of food was extortionate.  I know feel it's extortionate in the USA.  I do fear our food bill will increase dramatically with Brexit, as so much of the UK's food is imported.

I have two kids in childcare and that bill is over £2,000 a month.

Taxes are a killer here.  You'll likely fall in the 40% bracket for basic, plus national insurance. 

While the NHS covers *most* things, it is a myth that it covers everything.  On average, we spend about £1,000 a year on healthcare related expenses outside the NHS.

Then, of course, there is budgeting for an annual trip back to the USA each year.  For our family of 4, it's a big expense.  And as the entire country is on the same school schedule and you are not allowed to take kids out of school for holidays, the airfares SKYROCKET. 

All that being said, you soon adjust to the lower salaries and higher costs of some things. 

Taxes on homes are mostly paid up front.  The "stamp duty" on my house is £22,500 at the time of purchase.  My annual "council tax" or real estate tax is £2,500 per year and rises 5-6% annually.

As we were talking about on another thread recently, it really is all relative and completely depends on the location and house prices.

My 3-bed semi-detached was just over £150,000 to buy, the stamp duty was only £560 and my annual council tax is £1,000 (though I get 25% discount due to living alone, so it should be £1,333).

Also keep in mind most people do not have:  air conditioning, dishwashers, dryers, etc.  Not having those conveniences keeps the utilities lower.

Yes, good point - I have a washing machine, but no air con, no dryer and no dishwasher.

Taxes are a killer here.  You'll likely fall in the 40% bracket for basic, plus national insurance. 

To note though, that’s not 40% on all your income.

You will be taxed as follows:
Personal Allowance: Up to £11,850 =0%
Basic rate: £11,851 to £46,350 = 20%
Higher rate: £46,351 to £150,000   40%
Additional rate: over £150,000 = 45%

So you’ll only pay 40% on anything earned above £46,350.

While the NHS covers *most* things, it is a myth that it covers everything.  On average, we spend about £1,000 a year on healthcare related expenses outside the NHS.

Again, depends on individual circumstances.

My total spend per year on healthcare is about £20 (for the odd prescription), plus maybe £20 on an annual dental check up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All valid points ksand.

For the OP, our out of pocket stuff is teeth (my teeth suck). So I have 2-3 dental visits per year and two cleanings a year (that’s a couple of hundred total), I have also had to go private for dermatology, pregnancy crap, kids allergy crap, husbands auto immune crap. 

I live in the southeast which is not cheap.  But it is where most of the jobs are.

  I am fortunate enough to have been able to afford a "detached house".  It's not overly common to own a home that is unattached at both sides. 

And sometimes new build detached houses are so close to each other that you can touch both of them at the same time which almost defeats the purpose! 

The "free" NHS is a huge discount, though. In the States my daughter's private insurance policy would be costing about $850  - $900 a month in premiums, with deductibles and copays.

And here it's not just about the money saved on a monthly basis. The absolute relief to know that you're not going to end up in huge debt over a medical crisis can not be underestimated. 

I am now retired, so not looking for work, but when I first arrived I was seeing jobs with pay at roughly 1/3 to 1/2 of what I was paid for similar work in the USA.

Hope that helps!

(PS - I spent some time in Houston in the Summer. Scotland is NOTHING like Houston in the Summer. It's absolutely gorgeous here! And headline news if it cracks 80F.)
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Thank you so much for the time you took to write out all of that information. That was extremely helpful and informative. Can I ask why you chose to move/retire to Scotland? Even though the cost of housing is more expensive do you find it evens out with all the other items being less? Is the quality of life better/worth the sacrifice of the money being less?

 Not sure about other cities (than Lincoln), but you can do a cost comparison between Houston and various UK cities (or between London and other UK cities) here:
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp
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Hey! Thank you so much for ALL the information you gave, that was incredibly informative and thorough. I need to get out an excel spreadsheet and plug in all this info and see how we might fair on a monthly basis. In your opinion does the quality of life compared to that in the states make it worth it??

And here it's not just about the money saved on a monthly basis. The absolute relief to know that you're not going to end up in huge debt over a medical crisis can not be underestimated. 

So very true! Thankfully we are very healthy, but I am a nurse and know how quickly those things can change. I also see here how discriminating care is based on ability to pay and it makes me infuriated. I'm a bit fed up with the system here... 

For quality of life, it depends on your definitions.

It’s very difficult to make friends here, can be hard to get a job, a lot of political unrest, etc.

I live a good life but it’s not as *easy* as the USA.  We don’t have family support so having kids with no one around is very tough.  Stores close before I’m done with work, so the weekends are pretty crammed with stuff that I would prefer to do during the week.  But I’m happy.  I know I’d lead a great life in the US as well.  And I do think the US would fit my family better.  But we are all different.   

For quality of life, it depends on your definitions.

It’s very difficult to make friends here, can be hard to get a job, a lot of political unrest, etc.

I live a good life but it’s not as *easy* as the USA.  We don’t have family support so having kids with no one around is very tough.  Stores close before I’m done with work, so the weekends are pretty crammed with stuff that I would prefer to do during the week.  But I’m happy.  I know I’d lead a great life in the US as well.  And I do think the US would fit my family better.  But we are all different.   

Thank you for this insight...do you see yourself moving back/what keeps you there???

Hey! Thank you so much for ALL the information you gave, that was incredibly informative and thorough. I need to get out an excel spreadsheet and plug in all this info and see how we might fair on a monthly basis. In your opinion does the quality of life compared to that in the states make it worth it??

No problem .

Well, I'm British, so I don't have the experience of relocating from the US to the UK as a working adult. However, I have spent 18 months in the US as an international student (10 months in 2003/04 and 8 months in 2008), and I have US relatives who I've spent about 6 or 7 months visiting in total over the last 20 years, so I've had a taste of what it's like to live in the US and how far their money goes.

Personally, I would not choose to live in the US again, even if I got a much higher salary there, because I feel that my quality of life in the UK would be better than in the US

For me, I don't think a higher salary and more disposable income would be enough to make up for any of the following:
- the lack of universal healthcare (I never have to worry about not being able to afford it)
- the lack of vacation days (I get 32.5 days of paid vacation per year in the UK... and I usually manage to take at least 3 vacations abroad every year)
- the lack of sick pay (I get up to 7 days paid sick leave without a doctor's note, and I think potentially up to 6 months paid sick leave for a long-term condition)
- the lack of statutory maternity pay (up to 52 weeks in total, with 39 weeks of it paid in some form)

Thank you for this insight...do you see yourself moving back/what keeps you there???

We do consider moving to the USA.  It would be AMAZING for my kids to grow up around family.  My life was very different when I moved here.  It was only supposed to be a 2-3 year stop on the way to my dream position.  But I met a boy, and a marriage and two kids later, here I am. 

Work keeps me here.  And having to start life ALL OVER AGAIN.  It was really tough the first time.  I don’t really want to start over again.  Moving countries is no joke.  It’s insanely expensive, and very hard emotionally.

My career has flourished here.  And we are settled for the time being. 

We also, personally, prefer the US education system to the UK system.  This, of course, depends on where you are from and where you are going to.  We will make a decision for the long-haul before my eldest starts secondary school.