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Topic: Davis Resigns  (Read 3730 times)

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Davis Resigns
« on: July 09, 2018, 06:31:13 AM »
Strong and stable?
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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2018, 07:57:18 AM »
Strong and stable?
Really curious to see which/how many rebels the president meets with while in town, what sort of shuttle diplomacy his aides are up to, and what the US proffers as a deal. Could do in the PM.

What I understand of the US offer is pretty much the advantages of the EU without the costs or controls. Just takes a couple compromises.


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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2018, 08:42:50 AM »
Strong and stable?

Nobody believed that slogan when they came out with it.
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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2018, 08:43:20 AM »
Really curious to see which/how many rebels the president meets with while in town, what sort of shuttle diplomacy his aides are up to, and what the US proffers as a deal. Could do in the PM.

What I understand of the US offer is pretty much the advantages of the EU without the costs or controls. Just takes a couple compromises.

You know my views on Trump. But I will suggest he is a cunning businessman. If asked by  Britain how I would approach him, I would suggest preparing for a thorough buggering.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2018, 09:33:28 AM »
You know my views on Trump. But I will suggest he is a cunning businessman. If asked by  Britain how I would approach him, I would suggest preparing for a thorough buggering.
Trump is bombastic & narcissistic. It’s not complicated to understand how to deal with that, at least in the moment. You saw Marcon & the South Koreans do it well.

From a pure business approach, Trump is irrelevant to a trade deal offering.

The US would demand international food safety standards, which means GMOs and all the things the EU doesn’t like about global industrialized agriculture. And there’d be a face saving steel compromise.

In exchange, I expect there’d be a guarantee to find a profitable home for any previously EU bound good that is no longer viable; not freedom of movement, but an easy work visa process; amendments to the tax treaty based on the new US tax law and making it easier for Americans owning businesses in the UK & vice versa, as well as business investment - I suspect a UK form bilateral investment treaty... generally a large reduction in cost of living, increase in jobs, and increase in compensation levels - not on par with the US but approaching it.

If they’re smart, on this trip they’ll agree a compromise on steel that allows reduction or lifting of the tariff on the UK but not EU. I’m not as sure of that, but I suspect it’s the case.

There’ll be talk of properly funding defense & the necessity to a free world of the UK as a 1st tier partner. Implications of course that money previously going to the EU needs to partially fill the defense gap. The bulk of course to NHS, which of course won’t be mentioned.

And I’m curious to see if the UK is invited to participate as an observer in the NAFTA renegotiations. Implications obvious.

The UK will push for passporting to US financial markets. It won’t be decided at this stage. It’ll get tossed around. The city will go nuts for it. Really strong possibility if some cooperation can be worked out between regulators.

I realize a lot of people in the UK, Grove included, would be horrified to accept global food standards. And that won’t be decided at this point.

But the overall promise of what that deal has to offer is massively greater for the UK than anything the EU has to offer in order to be at something less than WTO rules.

If the US back channels something like that, downplaying the scary bits and up playing the advantages, while also bolstering support of rebels in one form or another... that could be a very big shakeup.

It would mean that finally we’re coming to a point of seeing clear alternatives between what a soft Brexit versus openness to the rest of the world looks like. I realize people come down on different sides, and that’s fine, but I like seeing the clear choice presented.


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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2018, 10:26:31 AM »
The UK should get a Prime Minister that knows what they're doing. Then maybe the relationship with the US can be repaired. As of now, the UK already screwed it up.

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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2018, 10:51:16 AM »
The UK should get a Prime Minister that knows what they're doing. Then maybe the relationship with the US can be repaired. As of now, the UK already screwed it up.

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I think it’s just a bit more pragmatic than that.

Telegraph today had an opinion piece, Brexit in hands of those who never supported it. That was the case when May was selected, and the current iteration of her offer is what should have been expected from that selection.

I don’t particularly like her, but I do feel bad for her. She’s got a narrow mandate to pull the country out of the EU, which was narrowly confirmed with less confidence in her to do it by an election. If she did a brilliant job of that, half the country would not like her. But, what out of the EU means precisely isn’t agreed at all by the other half. She can’t get the ideological dream of it cause the EU won’t stand for it, and 3/4ths of the country either don’t want that or are scared of the consequences. So, she has to chart this middle way herding cats as she goes with it all apt to fly apart at any moment. Even if she achieves the one most important thing she’s in the position to do, her legacy will be as a two-faced ineffectual bad leader. None of the rebels who could make a strong PM want that fate. They’re happy for her to fall on the sword and they to be the Phoenix out the other side when the payoff of Brexit with trade deals with the rest of the world, limited deregulation, tax changes, etc can potentially be had at a rapid clip.


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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2018, 12:35:08 PM »


I think it’s just a bit more pragmatic than that.

Telegraph today had an opinion piece, Brexit in hands of those who never supported it. That was the case when May was selected, and the current iteration of her offer is what should have been expected from that selection.

Well that's why I said the UK needs a new PM. Entrusting Brexit to someone who does not believe in Brexit is foolhearted.

But here's a timeline of what happened.

- Leading up to the Brexit vote, then-President Obama spoke out vehemently against the UK leaving the EU and said that doing so would put the UK in the back of the line for any trade deals.

- Then candidate Trump said that he supported the UK's quest for independence from the EU, and that he would put the UK at the front of the line for any future bilateral trade deals should Brexit succeed.

- Brexit wins

- Cameron resigns

- May, who supported remain, is instilled as PM

- Now President Trump continues to tout his support for not only Brexit, but for the people of the UK including Theresa May

- In the meantime, the UK media and leaders (including and especially Sadiq Khan, mayor of the largest city in the UK) have continually and constantly mocked, ridiculed, and demeaned President Trump

So yeah, I think the UK needs to get their act together if they want to repair the relationship that they and they alone have damaged with the US. You can call it pragmatic, but basically one side has been steadfast and supportive, while the other has been antagonist and divisive.

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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2018, 01:33:19 PM »

Well that's why I said the UK needs a new PM. Entrusting Brexit to someone who does not believe in Brexit is foolhearted.

But here's a timeline of what happened.

- Leading up to the Brexit vote, then-President Obama spoke out vehemently against the UK leaving the EU and said that doing so would put the UK in the back of the line for any trade deals.

- Then candidate Trump said that he supported the UK's quest for independence from the EU, and that he would put the UK at the front of the line for any future bilateral trade deals should Brexit succeed.

- Brexit wins

- Cameron resigns

- May, who supported remain, is instilled as PM

- Now President Trump continues to tout his support for not only Brexit, but for the people of the UK including Theresa May

- In the meantime, the UK media and leaders (including and especially Sadiq Khan, mayor of the largest city in the UK) have continually and constantly mocked, ridiculed, and demeaned President Trump

So yeah, I think the UK needs to get their act together if they want to repair the relationship that they and they alone have damaged with the US. You can call it pragmatic, but basically one side has been steadfast and supportive, while the other has been antagonist and divisive.

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Ain’t nobody got time for that mess.

You should really try to put all that childish cult of personality bs out of your head and get on with life.


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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2018, 03:04:17 PM »
There’ll be talk of properly funding defense & the necessity to a free world of the UK as a 1st tier partner. Implications of course that money previously going to the EU needs to partially fill the defense gap.

It would be a different kind of negotiation then?  I mean I know defence has been spoken about during the current EU/UK discussions, but it hasn't seemed to be the focus.

Let me ask, and you probably know much more about this than I, do you see Britain being able to sustain/obtain 1st Tier status? 

Just from my knowledge: currently the aim is to have one operational carrier (conventionally fuelled)  with 20 (ish) F-35s. Perhaps flexing up to a more substantial number. To me that is damned impressive. It will be quality. There are questions about support fleets etc.

But do you think the US could demand much more?
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2018, 03:22:39 PM »
Ain’t nobody got time for that mess.

You should really try to put all that childish cult of personality bs out of your head and get on with life.

Murdered by words.

Trump is only going to be in the UK for something like a day and a half and most of that will be sleeping and meeting the Queen. I would be astounded if he personally met any rebels or had anywhere near the level of understanding you guys seem to give him credit for. 

I am willing to consider the option that apart from Trump, the kind of deals you guys are talking about could be brewing, but I'd be surprised.  Given that the negotiations with the EU have been almost nonexistent from the sheer incompetence of the current government, I can't believe that something completely different (competent) has been happening with the US in secret. 
I guess we'll see.


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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2018, 03:23:41 PM »
Johnson has quit!
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2018, 03:30:23 PM »
Johnson has quit!

The Brexiters are all Brexiting early!


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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2018, 03:35:57 PM »
So, does that mean May's government is about to fall?


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Re: Davis Resigns
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2018, 03:40:20 PM »
Bring Southgate in!!
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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