Greg and Tre's advice thread

Hi forum - due to our original thread being locked after Olga-gate, and on the advice of the forum, we're going to post the advice received so far into a new thread:

Hi forum - my partner Tre and I are a same-sex couple. I'm a British citizen living in Manchester and he lives in San Antonio, TX, USA.  We are trying to figure out the best option for us o be together here in the UK.  Below is a copy of the email we have sent to several immigration lawyers, but we thought this forum may also be able to offer advice based on other people's experiences.

---
Dear Sir/Madam
 
I am writing to you to seek advice about visa options for my partner and I. I am based in Manchester, UK, with my own flat and earning around £30-35k/yr.  My income is split between two jobs: one is a permanent contract with Royal Mail earning c£19500pa, and the other is contracted work for Cambridge Assessment, helping to write and redraft exam material and also marking exam papers at GCSE and A-Level. I have been doing this since 2010, and I have P60s going back for a few years to show the regularity of that income. I currently live alone in a one-bed apartment but the bedroom is comfortably a double and I would be very happy to share this space with Tre.
 
Tre is my partner. We met when I was travelling in the US and we have met up again as many times as our jobs and budgets allow.  We message, phone call, voice message or video chat on a daily basis. Tre lives in rented accommodation, and we also share a love for travelling, so we believe Tre moving to Manchester would be easier logistically and give us more opportunities to travel together. He currently works two jobs, for Costco and Chick Fil A, and makes about £25-30/yr. Ideally, he would be able to transfer to the Manchester branch of Costco – this would enable us to live together, while we both work and save and plan our future for a few months - before getting married and possibly moving to a bigger place if we decide we want pets or children.  We love each other and want to be together, and we feel that the best place to start a life would be in England.

However, so far our attempts at arranging a transfer haven’t been as successful as we’d hoped. It seems Tre needs a work visa to get a job, but a work visa requires a job to sponsor him. We have spoken to the Manchester Costco manager and it seems Costco will not sponsor visas. So is a work visa a viable option for us?
 
If this is not an option, could you explain why and what our other options might be? We’ve considered a study visa, but presumably that would require him to be accepted onto a program of study, potentially with expensive tuition fees and I think he wouldn’t also be able to work in those circumstances. Could you outline any other key features of the study visa option that may or may not make it suitable for us?
 
The only other options seem to be fiancé and spouse visas – but if you know of any other visa types please do let us know.  The fiancé visa would allow us to live together here for a little while before actually getting married, but Tre would still have to leave his job and home in the US, and my understanding is he wouldn’t be able to work here in the UK until we got married and he got issued with a marriage visa.
 
We could continue to see each other for a while longer until we are happy to take the step of marriage, and having got married apply for a marriage visa. This is a bit of a ‘chicken and egg’ scenario as we would like the opportunity to live together for a few months before getting married. If possible, could you tell us whether this route is viable for us, and what the pros and cons would be?
 
Whilst I appreciate that you maybe not wish to invest too much time into these questions at this early stage, a response that explains what our viable options are and a feasible way forward for each of those options would be greatly appreciated. We just want to be together.

Kind regards,
Greg and Tre
---

Any thoughts on our situation and the best way forward for us would be gratefully appreciated. 
Kind regards
Greg and Tre

         

   
Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2018, 11:28:19 PM »

         Unlike
Welcome to the forum .

From what you’ve said above regarding your income and accommodation, you will easily meet the requirements requirements for a settlement visa, which would likely be your easiest/best option.

It doesn’t sound like a work visa will e a possibility, and a student visa is expensive and the time spent on that visa does not count towards permanent residency or citizenship.

Unfortunately there is no visa that allows you to live together before deciding to get married... your only options there would either be the fiancé visa or just visiting each other a few more times before applying for a visa.

Personally, I would not recommend using a solicitor unless you have a very complicated application, such as:
- Tre has serious criminal convictions
- Tre has a history of refused visas/entries to the UK, or of illegal working or overstaying in the UK

It’s much, much easier to marry in the US than it is to marry in the UK, as you will not need a visa to marry in the US, and it can be done in 24-48 hours (compared to needing a fiancé visa for the U.K. and it taking anywhere from 35 to 70 days to marry). Plus, it will mean you can apply directly for a spousal visa from the US, which will save you about £1,000 in visa fees and it will mean Tre can work immediately and use the NHS for ‘free’ from day 1.

Tre’s income in the US is completely irrelevant for the visa, so that does not need to be mentioned.

You would just need to meet the following requirements:
- you earn at least £18,600 before tax in the UK, for which you would only need to use your Royal Mail job and would not need to mention your second job. If you have been there more than 6 months, earning at least £18,600 all that time, you just provide:
- 6 months payslips
- 6 months bank statements
- a letter from your employer confirming your employment and income
Optional but recommended:
- original job contract
- most recent P60

- you have somewhere suitable to live together in the UK. If you rent, you will need a letter of permission from the landlord for Tre to live there after the visa has been granted. If you own, you just provide your Land Registry document and latest mortgage statement.

- you can show evidence of a genuine and subsisting relationship (regular visits/communication etc)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2018, 12:18:49 AM »

         Unlike
Welcome to UKY!

Unfortunately, there isn't a visa that allows you to test the waters of a relationship before getting married - much to the frustration of many.  If you are not immediately looking to getting married, the options are:

1.  Sponsored work visa.  This is typically a very difficult visa to qualify for.  For an employer to sponsor someone, the employer must be licensed to sponsor overseas workers and the employer must demonstrate that they have tried to recruit someone from the UK and EU, and there wasn't anyone qualified in the UK/EU to perform the job.  If the job is on the shortage occupation list, the process is slightly easier because the employer doesn't need to try and recruit locally first - but these jobs are usually very niche and specialized.

2.  Student visa.  The main downside to this one is the prohibitive cost of tuition fees for an international student, and depending on the area of study, getting accepted into a programme.  This is an avenue that has been used successfully by other couples when they wanted to live together without immediately getting married, but if considering it, make sure that it's a genuine desire to further one's education in a subject area of interest and not just as a means to get a visa to live in the UK.  In a worst case scenario, the last thing you would want to find out is that you've spent a LOT of money to study something you're actually not all that interested in.

3.  Visiting.  A visitor to the UK could request a maximum of 6 months.  This is probably the closest option to a 'testing the waters' visa.  But to be granted leave for this amount of time, Tre would need to have very strong ties back to the US.  And it should be noted that as a visitor, Tre could not work in any capacity (paid, unpaid, volunteer, or even remotely for a US group) and would need medical coverage for the duration of the trip, or be able to pay for potential medical bills at 150% out of pocket.   


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2018, 03:33:40 AM »

         Unlike
Hi Greg, welcome!    You've done some really good research there, well done!

Maybe have a few more visits first but once you decide you are ready to commit to one another, then the spouse visa (having married first in the US) would be the best option by far. 


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2018, 04:26:43 PM »

Thanks for the replies 

The responses we've had back from lawyers have generally suggested the spouse visa is the way forward.  In light of which:

I earn over £18600. I can provide payslips and bank statements and I think I have my contract (change of hours) from when I relocated to Manchester.  I definitely have my P60s for the last three years or so. I get on well with my boss so I'm sure he would write the letter confirming my role and income. 

I have my own place (mortgage) - a 1-bed flat (bedroom has a double bed in it). I have title deeds but I've also read that a survey/report may be required to confirm the space is big enough?

Tre has no criminal convictions or denied visa issues. I am a British citizen.

We have messaged each other every day on either Telegram, Facebook messenger or Kik since March, and with some regularity for almost a year before that.  March was when we met for the first time.  Unfortunately a lot of our early communication was via Kik which doesn't save chat history beyond a month or two.  We have daily chat history from the end of March however.  We didn't think to take any photos together during our first meeting on March but we have photos from when Tre came to see me in Manchester in July (we also took a two-day trip to Spain) and also when I went to see him in September.  I'm also booked to visit him in October for two weeks when we may go to Mexico together for a week or so, and we'll take more photos then.  I'll also meet some of his family.

We're trying to make seeing each other in November work.  Failing that, I have 3 weeks off in January and two weeks in February, and Tre is pursuing the possibility of being granted unpaid winter leave which would allow him up to 6 weeks in the New Year also.  This would allow us to spend a large chunk of time together and maybe travel somewhere a little further afield. 
...Ultimately I guess I'm interested to know at what point we'll have enough evidence of a genuine and subsisting relationship?

Tre has been married but is now divorced.

If we plan to pursue the spouse visa option in the near-medium term, what things should we focus on ready for when the time comes to make the application?  We wouldn't want to find ourselves further delayed by something that could easily have been planned for with a bit of foresight!

Are the fees expected to go up in April?  Is there a limit to how many applications are accepted per year? In which case, are some times of the year better to apply than others?

These are all our questions for now!  We're trying to get a feel for how the picture looks for us and pre-empt any possible future hiccups with some good planning.

We appreciate all the help and guidance,
George and Tre
         
         
   Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2018, 04:33:35 PM »

         Unlike
You guys are already fine on the genuine relationship bit.  The requirement is simply that you've met in person and have ongoing communication.  You are good there.  It's just a decision of being ready to make the leap to marriage. 

Fees increase every April and sometimes in October as well.  Budget £10,000 to £12,000 for full visa journey which will be 3 visas in total before your partner is free from immigration control, over the next 5 years.



Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2018, 04:24:46 PM »

Thanks

Is there a requirement for an official report into the suitability of my flat?

Is there a good time of year to apply? I guess there's a waiting time component to that as well as whether they reach a maximum threshold at any point and any further applications that year are automatically rejected?

Any other hints/tips etc gratefully received!
Best wishes
Greg and Tre


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2018, 04:44:50 PM »

         Unlike
Quote from: GregandTre on September 21, 2018, 04:24:46 PM
Thanks

Is there a requirement for an official report into the suitability of my flat?

Is there a good time of year to apply? I guess there's a waiting time component to that as well as whether they reach a maximum threshold at any point and any further applications that year are automatically rejected?

Any other hints/tips etc gratefully received!
Best wishes
Greg and Tre

Summer is the busiest time, so applying in the fall or just after Christmas is usually faster than if you apply in June. But things have been slower in general so expect 30 business days for priority applications and 60+ business days for non priority. Apply based on when you want to move, up to 6 months in advance I believe (this was recently updated, it used to be 3 months), as you only get a 30 day window on the vignette to pick up your BRP from the post office.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2018, 04:49:20 PM »

         Unlike
Quote from: GregandTre on September 21, 2018, 04:24:46 PM
Is there a requirement for an official report into the suitability of my flat?


Nope (and any lawyer who tells you otherwise is only trying to make extra money off you).

All you need is:
- your Land Registry document showing you are the owner
Optional:
- your latest mortgage statement to show you are keeping up with payments

The point of the accommodation requirement is simply to show that Tre will have a roof over his head and won’t end up out on the streets, or trying to claim illegal benefits.

Quote
Is there a good time of year to apply? I guess there's a waiting time component to that as well as whether they reach a maximum threshold at any point and any further applications that year are automatically rejected?


No, there is no maximum threshold - that only applies to sponsored Tier 2 work visas.

Generally, the summer and possibly just before Christmas time are the busiest times to apply, because people are trying to get their visas either before the start of the new school year, or in time for Christmas so they can be in the UK for the holidays.

However, in the last 1.5 years, there hasn’t been a massive difference in processing times through the year, because Sheffield is now processing settlement visa applications from many more countries than they used to, so it’s been taking longer to get through them all.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2018, 06:32:13 PM »

         Unlike
Hi,

My husband and I had a pretty similar situation to yours, and I came from Dallas;). We got married in the US (plan accordingly for waiting time- some states have them and others don’t) and then we went for the spousal route. Patience is key during this time!!


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2018, 06:38:51 PM »

Hey again UK Yankee friends

We've been thinking further and browsing the forum to glean maximum info about the challenges ahead!:

It seems that once Tre submits his application, he can't enter the UK while his application is pending? Obviously given that this could be months, we'd like to see each other in that time, so I guess our options are to either expedite it, or else plan for me to visit him in the US or to meet up somewhere else for travel/hols?

We had been talking about property steps. I have a place here in the Manchester, but we'd like to get a bigger flat maybe within two years, and then maybe get a semi-detached house so we could have a dog (e.g. within 2-5 years).  It seems we might face difficulty getting a joint mortgage and getting Tre's income taken into account?  Does anyone have solutions to this problem? Is it possible to go via a broker and still get reasonable mortgage rates given our circumstances?  We'd also thought about keeping either my current flat (or the next flat we move into) to rent out once we have a house, but again we're not sure how much more complicated that might be before Tre has ILR.

We'd read that things like getting a joint account can be a good way to prove your relationship is genuine for FLR applications, so these joint mortgage difficulties seems a bit contradictory!

Any and all thoughts and advice welcome as ever.  We're hoping lots of forethought will pay dividends in the long run
G&T


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2018, 06:53:26 PM »

         Unlike
Quote from: GregandTre on October 01, 2018, 06:38:51 PM
Hey again UK Yankee friends

We've been thinking further and browsing the forum to glean maximum info about the challenges ahead!:

It seems that once Tre submits his application, he can't enter the UK while his application is pending? Obviously given that this could be months, we'd like to see each other in that time, so I guess our options are to either expedite it, or else plan for me to visit him in the US or to meet up somewhere else for travel/hols?


He will have to submit his passport when he applies, so he won’t be able to travel. You could visit him in the US though.

You can’t ‘expedite’ an application, but you can pay for priority processing to have the application put to the front of the line (behind other priority and ahead of non-priority).

Generally, priority applications seem to be taking 4-6 weeks for processing, and non-priority about 3 months.

Quote
We had been talking about property steps. I have a place here in the Manchester, but we'd like to get a bigger flat maybe within two years, and then maybe get a semi-detached house so we could have a dog (e.g. within 2-5 years).  It seems we might face difficulty getting a joint mortgage and getting Tre's income taken into account?  Does anyone have solutions to this problem? Is it possible to go via a broker and still get reasonable mortgage rates given our circumstances?  We'd also thought about keeping either my current flat (or the next flat we move into) to rent out once we have a house, but again we're not sure how much more complicated that might be before Tre has ILR.


To be honest, it would be easier to just get a mortgage in your name, than to try to add him to a mortgage - but of course then his income can’t be considered. You may find there are companies who will lend to him after he has been here a couple of years, but the interest rates are likely to be higher and there are US tax implications to having him on the mortgage.

Quote
We'd read that things like getting a joint account can be a good way to prove your relationship is genuine for FLR applications, so these joint mortgage difficulties seems a bit contradictory!


There is no requirement to get a joint account and it has no bearing on FLR(M) applications. Many people do not have joint accounts and it makes no difference at all.

The only thing that it makes easier for is so you have more mail in joint names so you don’t need to provide as many individual correspondence documents for FLR and ILR.

To prove your relationship, you simply need to show you have both been receiving mail to the same address at the same time. Doesn’t matter if it is joint or separate mail.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2018, 04:09:31 PM »

Thanks ksand24

What are the tax implications of having Tre on the mortgage?  When do these tax implications (and any other tax implications) cease? (e.g. at ILR or naturalisation)

How have other couples dealt with not being able to use both incomes towards a mortgage?

Are there any other things that Tre couldn't do in those five years until ILR? Naturally we're keen to get on with our life together as much as possible and not have things 'on hold'.

Thanks UK Yankees
Greg and Tre


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2018, 04:16:36 PM »

         Unlike
Quote from: GregandTre on October 02, 2018, 04:09:31 PM
Thanks ksand24

What are the tax implications of having Tre on the mortgage?  When do these tax implications (and any other tax implications) cease? (e.g. at ILR or naturalisation)

How have other couples dealt with not being able to use both incomes towards a mortgage?

Are there any other things that Tre couldn't do in those five years until ILR? Naturally we're keen to get on with our life together as much as possible and not have things 'on hold'.

Thanks UK Yankees
Greg and Tre


The tax implications are on the US side and would only cease if he were no longer a US citizen.

He can't claim benefits until he has ILR.
Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2018, 05:07:38 PM »

         Unlike
Unfortunately, immigration (even just the staggering fees) will likely prevent you from living the life exactly as you want until he's free and clear of immigration control after 5 years.  Household income is affected while having to save for the fees, holidays need to be timed around visa applications, etc.  There is no way to fully escape the impact.

The tax implications are on the USA side as Larabee said.  There are capital gains issues if/when you sell and remortgage the property.

Some couples choose to have the US person on the mortgage to maximizing purchasing power.  Some don't.  I'd say it's about 50/50.  Just be sure to seek legal advise before having him on a mortgage as you don't want any financial surprises in the future.

And it's never a bad thing to only use one person's income for a property purchase.  It likely means that you'll always be able to manage your payments if one of you ends up unemployed for any reason.

Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2018, 03:11:42 PM »

Hi all - thanks for the help so far

Another question: I (Greg), as sponsor, need to meet the £18600 requirement.  Now as I mentioned in an earlier post, I have two jobs, one for the royal mail earning 19-20k per year depending on overtime, and one for Cambridge assessment which is more contract-based and I earn 12-14k per year from that.  I was told previously just to submit info for the Royal Mail job as that is already sufficient, which is fine..however, I seek some clarification/reassurance!

My understanding is that it's the gross figure that would be used?  However my payslips are not entirely helpful in terms of layout.  The left hand side of a typical week i.e. no overtime has 'payments' as follows (figures are rounded!):

basic pay £361
delivery supplement £21 (this is a compulsory part of our pay and basically covers the additional advertising material we have to deliver these days)
POAL -£10 (this is a voluntary hit I take in order to have extra holidays - Purchase Of Annual Leave)
PSEadj DBCBS -£18 (this is my pension payment)
Gross pay £355


The right hand side of my payslip has 'deductions' as follows:

Tax £25
National Insurance £23
CWU £3 (this is the fee I pay to be part of the Communication Workers Union)
Total £52

My thinking is that the £361 and the £21 make up my gross pay, and that this x52 is £19900 approx and is fine. Even if they just take the basic pay figure and x52 that's £18800 approx.

However, if they use the 'gross pay' figure of £355 I fall short (£18400)! This figure already has my POAL and pension taken out though, so isn't what I would consider gross pay, however it is unhelpfully labelled as such on my payslip :/

Therefore I'm wondering how best to deal with this when the time comes?
Thanks as ever for any help!

Greg and Tre


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2018, 11:45:10 AM »

Hey again everyone

We're together for a couple of weeks and just thinking of other questions:

Tre has recently been in a car crash (not his fault, he's fine) but he has an outstanding loan on it that will need to be paid off. This means he can't afford a new car, and so he might have to quit his costco job to get one within walking distance. He's been with costco for four years but when we come to apply he may only have been in his new job for a few months. Will this affect our application at all?

He's understandably frustrated that he has to continue making payments for a vehicle that is written off, but I think it would be unwise not to?

Also, an option to save money would be for him to move back in with his mum, but that would mean defaulting on his apartment rental lease, and again we're not sure that this would be a wise thing to do?

Tre sponsored his Mexican ex-husband's visa, and the ex-husband overstayed. They are now divorced. Is this likely to be a problem for our spousal visa application?

Many thanks!
Greg and Tre
P.S. if anyone has any thoughts on my previous payslip post that would be great too


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2018, 12:00:11 PM »

         Unlike
Quote from: GregandTre on October 09, 2018, 11:45:10 AM
Tre has recently been in a car crash (not his fault, he's fine) but he has an outstanding loan on it that will need to be paid off. This means he can't afford a new car, and so he might have to quit his costco job to get one within walking distance. He's been with costco for four years but when we come to apply he may only have been in his new job for a few months. Will this affect our application at all?


As the US citizen, his income or employment situation cannot be considered at all.... so it makes absolutely no difference if he is employed or not.

The online application will ask for his employment situation, and his employment details, but that's only because the form is generic and pretty much the same for all visa types... the answer he puts will have no bearing on the application at all.

Quote
He's understandably frustrated that he has to continue making payments for a vehicle that is written off, but I think it would be unwise not to?


I think so - he doesn't want to run into financial troubles if he ever returns to live in the US in the future.

Quote
Also, an option to save money would be for him to move back in with his mum, but that would mean defaulting on his apartment rental lease, and again we're not sure that this would be a wise thing to do?


This is irrelevant to the visa application, but I guess it could affect his US credit/US financial standing if he returns in the future.

Quote
Tre sponsored his Mexican ex-husband's visa, and the ex-husband overstayed. They are now divorced. Is this likely to be a problem for our spousal visa application?


Nope... since Tre is not the one who overstayed in the US, it is irrelevant. If his ex-husband was the one applying for a visa for the UK, that would be different, but he and his overstay have nothing to do with Tre's application for a UK visa.

However, Tre will have to include his original divorce decree with his application documents, and it will be needed for every single visa application he makes in the next 5 years.


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2018, 12:01:00 PM »

         Like
Tre's financial position and previous spouse's overstay will have no impact on the application.

I didn't answer about the payslip, as I honestly haven't seen anything like it before.

I suspect the gross pay will be your total pay, minus the pension payment, meaning £372/week.  Which you would qualify to sponsor him with.  But I'm not 100% certain.  If your contract stipulates that the £21 a week is guaranteed, then you'll be fine.


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2018, 12:09:40 PM »

         Unlike
I would have replied to your post about the payslips earlier, but when you posted it, I had just got off a plane after a 20-hour journey!

Quote from: GregandTre on October 06, 2018, 03:11:42 PM
My understanding is that it's the gross figure that would be used?  However my payslips are not entirely helpful in terms of layout.  The left hand side of a typical week i.e. no overtime has 'payments' as follows (figures are rounded!):

basic pay £361
delivery supplement £21 (this is a compulsory part of our pay and basically covers the additional advertising material we have to deliver these days)
POAL -£10 (this is a voluntary hit I take in order to have extra holidays - Purchase Of Annual Leave)
PSEadj DBCBS -£18 (this is my pension payment)
Gross pay £355


I believe they should use the basic pay of £361, before any deductions.

£361 x 52 weeks = £18,772 ... which meets the requirements.

They may also use the £21, but I'm not sure - it depends if it's listed in your contract or not and if it's included when your employer calculates your contracted annual salary... either way though, it won't matter because your basic pay of £361 meets the requirements without it.

Quote
However, if they use the 'gross pay' figure of £355 I fall short (£18400)! This figure already has my POAL and pension taken out though, so isn't what I would consider gross pay, however it is unhelpfully labelled as such on my payslip :/


They will not use this figure, because the amount they use is the basic pay as listed on your employment contract, before ANY deductions.

So, I imagine your employer letter will state the £18,772 figure? (assuming that is your official salary), and so you will use that figure on VAF4a Appendix 2.

From the guidance:

Quote
18. When calculating income from salaried employment under paragraphs 12A and 13 to 16, this paragraph applies:

(a) Basic pay, skills-based allowances, and UK location-based allowances will be counted as income provided that:
(i) They are contractual;
and
(ii) Where these allowances make up more than 30% of the total salary, only the amount up to 30% is counted.


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2018, 12:37:37 PM »

         Unlike
Tre should try to come to an agreement with his landlord and the finance company. As well as the reasons mentioned, it could be a problem if he later wants to become a British citizen as there is an ever tightening Good Character Requirement which needs to be met.


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2018, 12:43:07 PM »

         Unlike
Quote from: ksand24 on October 09, 2018, 12:09:40 PM
I would have replied to your post about the payslips earlier, but when you posted it, I had just got off a plane after a 20-hour journey!

I believe they should use the basic pay of £361, before any deductions.

£361 x 52 weeks = £18,772 ... which meets the requirements.

They may also use the £21, but I'm not sure - it depends if it's listed in your contract or not and if it's included when your employer calculates your contracted annual salary... either way though, it won't matter because your basic pay of £361 meets the requirements without it.

They will not use this figure, because the amount they use is the basic pay as listed on your employment contract, before ANY deductions.

So, I imagine your employer letter will state the £18,772 figure? (assuming that is your official salary), and so you will use that figure on VAF4a Appendix 2.

From the guidance:



My question is that I don't know how they treat POAL...  is it considered salary sacrifice like childcare vouchers?  Or is it a true reduction in salary..

The they take the POAL off and don't add in the £21, then he doesn't meet the requirement... 

Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2018, 01:06:23 PM »

         Unlike
Quote from: KFdancer on October 09, 2018, 12:43:07 PM
My question is that I don't know how they treat POAL...  is it considered salary sacrifice like childcare vouchers?  Or is it a true reduction in salary..

The they take the POAL off and don't add in the £21, then he doesn't meet the requirement...


Yeah, I'm not sure.

The POAL is voluntary though and doesn't HAVE to be taken out of the salary each week, so it shouldn't be deducted from the annual salary used for the visa... it's basically a monthly expense that Greg has chosen to have taken out of his payslip, so don't see why he should be penalised for it. Same goes for the £18 pension payment - it's a deduction from the gross annual salary.

His weekly basic income (gross weekly salary) is £361 (plus the £21)... therefore that's the salary that should be used for the income requirement.

My understanding is that they will take the contracted basic pay, as listed on the job contract, payslip and employer letter and use that.

I cannot find any mention in the guidance of a situation where they would take into account deductions from the basic pay. There is only mention of being able to include additions to the basic pay (such as allowances, overtime, bonuses etc.).


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2018, 01:19:08 PM »

         Unlike
Quote from: GregandTre on October 09, 2018, 11:45:10 AM

Tre has recently been in a car crash (not his fault, he's fine) but he has an outstanding loan on it that will need to be paid off. This means he can't afford a new car, and so he might have to quit his costco job to get one within walking distance. He's been with costco for four years but when we come to apply he may only have been in his new job for a few months. Will this affect our application at all?

He's understandably frustrated that he has to continue making payments for a vehicle that is written off, but I think it would be unwise not to?



Isn't this what car insurance is for?? If he isn't at fault, it should be the other driver's insurance (presuming they had any??). If the driver at fault doesn't have insurance, surely Tre's insurance should cover this???

Most leases have a leaving clause where he just needs to give a certain amount of notice - check the lease agreement.


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2018, 06:15:39 PM »

Quote from: physicskate on October 09, 2018, 01:19:08 PM
Isn't this what car insurance is for?? If he isn't at fault, it should be the other driver's insurance (presuming they had any??). If the driver at fault doesn't have insurance, surely Tre's insurance should cover this???

Most leases have a leaving clause where he just needs to give a certain amount of notice - check the lease agreement.


His insurance are covering the current value of the car, but due to depreciation that doesn't cover the amount outstanding on the loan.


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2018, 06:27:00 PM »

Thanks everyone

I guess in light of the uncertainty, I could include information about my second job, but with that being contract work the paperwork is less straightforward.

My employer's letter could also include an explanation of the payslip, in particular that the delivery supplement is part of our permanent pay, and that the POAL and union membership is voluntary. I feel like pension, income tax, and national insurance are surely standard deductions that they have to ignore?

I guess we're debating whether this letter would be sufficient or whether we should collate information about my second job too, and include that?


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2018, 07:07:30 PM »

         Unlike
Quote from: GregandTre on October 09, 2018, 06:27:00 PM
Thanks everyone

I guess in light of the uncertainty, I could include information about my second job, but with that being contract work the paperwork is less straightforward.

My employer's letter could also include an explanation of the payslip, in particular that the delivery supplement is part of our permanent pay, and that the POAL and union membership is voluntary. I feel like pension, income tax, and national insurance are surely standard deductions that they have to ignore?

I guess we're debating whether this letter would be sufficient or whether we should collate information about my second job too, and include that?


I would ask your employer to clarify if the POAL is a salary sacrifice.  If so, it’s a non issue.  Just have them explain that in the employment letter.


Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2018, 11:47:38 PM »
This was the OlgaChilds post!!
         

Re: Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2018, 11:01:33 PM »

Hi all

"Also, an option to save money would be for him to move back in with his mum, but that would mean defaulting on his apartment rental lease, and again we're not sure that this would be a wise thing to do?

This is irrelevant to the visa application, but I guess it could affect his US credit/US financial standing if he returns in the future."

So it may well be that Tre defaulting on his lease and moving back in with family is the best way to make the numbers work.  This would potentially leave some of his lease unpaid, and so before he does this we just want to check that unpaid months on a apartment lease wouldn't potentially be construed as a 'character' issue/flaw, and adversely effect our spousal visa application.
Thanks as ever
Greg and Tre



Which visa is best for us?
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2018, 11:18:14 PM »

         Unlike
Quote from: GregandTre on October 22, 2018, 11:01:33 PM
So it may well be that Tre defaulting on his lease and moving back in with family is the best way to make the numbers work.  This would potentially leave some of his lease unpaid, and so before he does this we just want to check that unpaid months on a apartment lease wouldn't potentially be construed as a 'character' issue/flaw, and adversely effect our spousal visa application.
Thanks as ever
Greg and Tre


It would not affect a spousal visa application because there is no character requirement for a spousal visa.

The only thing it could potentially affect is the good character requirement for U.K. citizenship, but a) I’m not sure if it would and b) he won’t qualify to apply for citizenship until he holds ILR, and he has to live in the U.K. for 5 years on settlement visas before he can apply for ILR.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi forum - due to our original thread being locked after Olga-gate, and on the advice of the forum, we're going to post the advice received so far into a new thread:

Hi forum - my partner Tre and I are a same-sex couple. I'm a British citizen living in Manchester and he lives in San Antonio, TX, USA.  We are trying to figure out the best option for us o be together here in the UK.


Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Hi  ... while I am not the one to answer your questions  .. I just wanted to say Congrats and Good Luck.. I'll be applying for my Spousal Visa next week.. My husband lives in Lancashire and I live in Amarillo TX...

Hey MrsPoetryMan
This is a coincidence! We wish you luck with your application, and that the approval comes quickly.  Do keep us all informed on your progress.  Where in Lancashire does he live? I live in Manchester near Piccadilly train station.

We also asked some questions about name changes on passports and when to do that... this was on another thread too so we thought we'd copy that over as well! 

Re: Change name on passport before applying for spousal visa?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2018, 02:35:40 PM »

         Quote
Tre and I (same sex) have provisional plans to marry in early April, and then we'd like to get straight into applying for his spouse visa.  If we get one of our passport names changed first, this potentially delays our visa application.  We both actually got new passports this year so we'd like to utilise the time on them! We don't plan to have children together (e.g. adopt) any time soon, if at all, and neither of us feels strongly about the whole name change thing - we'd both be quite happy to continue with our different names possibly until after he has ILR/citizenship...

Any thoughts on our best way forward?


Re: Change name on passport before applying for spousal visa?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2018, 03:06:55 PM »

         Like
         Quote
Quote from: GregandTre on November 06, 2018, 02:35:40 PM
Tre and I (same sex) have provisional plans to marry in early April, and then we'd like to get straight into applying for his spouse visa.  If we get one of our passport names changed first, this potentially delays our visa application.  We both actually got new passports this year so we'd like to utilise the time on them! We don't plan to have children together (e.g. adopt) any time soon, if at all, and neither of us feels strongly about the whole name change thing - we'd both be quite happy to continue with our different names possibly until after he has ILR/citizenship...

Any thoughts on our best way forward?


If you renewed your passport less than 12 months ago (from the time you change your name), there is no charge. 

Re: Change name on passport before applying for spousal visa?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2018, 03:38:17 PM »

         Quote
Oh, interesting.  I renewed mine at the end of May, and Tre got his on 12th June, and we plan to get married early April next year.  So there may be no charge, but how much will any name change delay us?
How bad would it be if we didn't change either of our names, so we both kept our birth names right through to applying for ILR?


Re: Change name on passport before applying for spousal visa?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2018, 08:57:56 PM »

         Like
         Quote
Quote from: ksand24 on November 06, 2018, 06:47:09 AM
It used to be that you could apply for UK citizenship in any name you wanted, so you could keep your US passport and visa in your maiden name and apply for citizenship in your married name.

Not anymore though. Now you can only apply for UK citizenship in the name on your US passport.

Yeah, I'm just finding out now that it's changed in the last couple years. And my beautiful plan is foiled! Ah well. That's UKVI for us!

Quote from: ksand24 on November 06, 2018, 06:47:09 AM
Or alternatively:
- you change your name on your US passport now, or you could do it just before applying for FLR(M) or ILR
- apply for citizenship in your married name
- apply for your UK passport in your married name

I think I'll probably have to end up going through citizenship & UK passport with maiden name, but how would this option above work exactly? I have FLR and will be applying soon for ILR. If I made the change before applying for ILR, to change the name on my BRP it would cost £161/£771 and if I made the change after getting ILR, it would be £229/£839, I understand. If I applied for a name change "just before applying" for ILR, would I not have to change my BRP? I know there's a 3 month window after changing your passport to change the BRP or facing a hefty fine and consequences.


Re: Change name on passport before applying for spousal visa?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2018, 09:11:12 PM »

         Unlike
         Quote
Quote from: GregandTre on November 06, 2018, 03:38:17 PM
Oh, interesting.  I renewed mine at the end of May, and Tre got his on 12th June, and we plan to get married early April next year.  So there may be no charge, but how much will any name change delay us?


I think about 4-6 weeks, but you can pay to expedite to get it in 2-3 weeks if you have urgent travel plans.

See:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/apply-renew-passport/change-correct.html

Quote
How bad would it be if we didn't change either of our names, so we both kept our birth names right through to applying for ILR?


It would be fine, but you'd need to make sure you booked all travel in the name on your passports.

You can always change it just before applying for either FLR(M) or ILR... as long as you do it less than 3 months before applying for the new visa, you won't need to change the name on the BRP card as well.

Hey MrsPoetryMan
This is a coincidence! We wish you luck with your application, and that the approval comes quickly.  Do keep us all informed on your progress.  Where in Lancashire does he live? I live in Manchester near Piccadilly train station.

Thank you , I hope it all goes smoothly too... He lives in Barrowford, about 30 miles north of Manchester..
I used to live in Goliad , TX about 60 miles south of San Antonio, as well in San Antonio when I was very little.. small world..
Hey, on your passport name change... My experience was,  we got married Oct 28th and I mailed my passport off Nov 1st, they got it Nov 3rd and I got it back on Nov 10th, last Friday.. I have not received my old passport yet but hopefully will this week or next before I apply... I did pay priority and had it mailed 2 day and paid extra for Priority mail back to me... So i'd say about what 7 days turnaround was awesome. 

Thank you , I hope it all goes smoothly too... He lives in Barrowford, about 30 miles north of Manchester..
I used to live in Goliad , TX about 60 miles south of San Antonio, as well in San Antonio when I was very little.. small world..
Hey, on your passport name change... My experience was,  we got married Oct 28th and I mailed my passport off Nov 1st, they got it Nov 3rd and I got it back on Nov 10th, last Friday.. I have not received my old passport yet but hopefully will this week or next before I apply... I did pay priority and had it mailed 2 day and paid extra for Priority mail back to me... So i'd say about what 7 days turnaround was awesome. 

Thanks, this is great info to have
Small world indeed! Fingers crossed for you

Thanks, this is great info to have
Small world indeed! Fingers crossed for you

Thank you....Y'all too 

The small world keeps getting bigger... I'm from Austin, and - while we live in SW England - my husband is originally from Preston so we head up that way a few times a year.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

The small world keeps getting bigger... I'm from Austin, and - while we live in SW England - my husband is originally from Preston so we head up that way a few times a year.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Hey Heyjay,
I also actually have a friend who moved from UK to Houston, TX.  It was when I was visiting her in April 2017 that I met Tre.  I'm glad things worked out for you and I hope you like the UK!

Hi again one and all

Tre has been to visit last week, and he's coming back for two months at the end of December.  We're talking about timeframes for getting married, our application and intended move date.  Obviously savings/finances are a big consideration, and so we were wondering if anyone could give us a ballpark figure for our spouse visa application? We probably will forego priority, as it looks like there's gonna be a roughly 3-month window between when it will be convenient to get a wedding arranged and when it'll be convenient for him to move.  Other than that, we'd like to know what total cost we would be looking at? We'd be applying after April, so any latest news on NHS surcharges and possible visa cost increases would also be gratefully received!

Thanks
G&T

Hi all

Tre's been over for two months and we are now engaged

We're planning to get married in August.  We're going to do it in the US for the obvious reasons.  I don't think any of my family will come over due to cost and circumstances, but I have a friend living in the US who will attend. Is there a requirement for there to be someone from 'my' side? Does that person have to be family?

The rough plan is to marry in the US and spend time with Tre's family, and also come over to Europe for some time with my friends and family.  We could either get married there, and then both fly back here for some time with my family before Tre flies back home and submits the application.  The downside with that is that we'd like to do the application together.  Is it possible to effectively save a completed application so that all Tre would need to do is hit 'submit' once he got back to the US?

Alternatively he could come to Europe first and see my people, then we both go to the US to marry and then submit the application, and I'll send off my stuff once I get home.

Any thoughts from forummites on what approach makes the most sense gratefully received.  If there's some important detail we've overlooked it would be great to know as we're trying to get a chunk of planning done before Tre goes back to the US on Monday

Hi all

Tre's been over for two months and we are now engaged

We're planning to get married in August.  We're going to do it in the US for the obvious reasons.  I don't think any of my family will come over due to cost and circumstances, but I have a friend living in the US who will attend. Is there a requirement for there to be someone from 'my' side? Does that person have to be family?

The rough plan is to marry in the US and spend time with Tre's family, and also come over to Europe for some time with my friends and family.  We could either get married there, and then both fly back here for some time with my family before Tre flies back home and submits the application.  The downside with that is that we'd like to do the application together.  Is it possible to effectively save a completed application so that all Tre would need to do is hit 'submit' once he got back to the US?

Alternatively he could come to Europe first and see my people, then we both go to the US to marry and then submit the application, and I'll send off my stuff once I get home.

Any thoughts from forummites on what approach makes the most sense gratefully received.  If there's some important detail we've overlooked it would be great to know as we're trying to get a chunk of planning done before Tre goes back to the US on Monday

The only requirement of the wedding is that it's legal. You don't need to have any family or friends there at all.

Yes, you can fill the application and save it as you go, it just needs to be submitted while the applicant is physically in the US, so from that point of view just do whatever you prefer when it comes to the family visits.

Edited just to clarify, when you say Europe, do you mean the UK or mainland Europe? You are going to want to be careful with multiple visits to the UK as there is a chance they will assume that he is trying to live here without a visa.