Renouncing citizenship // Applying to stay in the UK as a stateless person

Hello!

Has anyone ever voluntarily renounced their US citizenship, and applied to stay in the UK as a stateless individual, or genuinely considered doing so?

For the record, I would like to make it known that I am aware that statelessness is serious adult business with lots of unignorable associated risks and consequences, but I'd like to know if anyone else in a similar situation has ever mulled this over, or even half pursued this... possibly in consultation with a solicitor etc.

This question is about 65% hypothetical but my mind just keeps wandering back to it so I thought I would raise it to a wider group of expats and settle my curiosity once and for all.

Thanks in advance for reading my maddening musings.

I won't even attempt to respond.

You'd want an extraordinarily good lawyer - read a shark who wouldn't come cheap.  Though potentially a "Gloria Allred" type would potentially take it on as a media exercise.

Like KFDancer, I couldn't even begin to comment on it, because I have no clue how it would even work.

I know of a couple of people on the forum who have renounced their US citizenship after they have become British citizens, but until just now, I wasn't even aware that it was possible to renounce US citizenship without already having gained another citizenship first, or that you could apply to stay in the UK as a stateless person.

Somebody else tried it on another forum, but they had missed the bit on the US gov site that warned that they could still be deported to the US even though they had renounced US citizenship.

Since then the UK have brought in the Immigration Act 2014 and 2016, that means things like: the end of all in-country appeals including Human Rights; for those without lawful status in the UK - no renting, working and driving a criminal offence, DVLA revoke their UK driving licence; no bill free NHS etc;  immigration bail (tagged); British citizenship can now be removed as long as the Home Secretary thinks they have a claim to another citizenship even if they don't hold it etc.

Plus I was reading how they plan to bring in laws so people can be deported within 28 days, to save the cost to the taxpayer of long stays in detention centres if they don't leave the UK.

Like KFDancer, I couldn't even begin to comment on it, because I have no clue how it would even work.

I know of a couple of people on the forum who have renounced their US citizenship after they have become British citizens, but until just now, I wasn't even aware that it was possible to renounce US citizenship without already having gained another citizenship first, or that you could apply to stay in the UK as a stateless person.

I WAS pretty sure you couldn't make yourself stateless, but this link has some useful info:

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Renunciation-US-Nationality-Abroad.html

I just think it's generally a bad idea... (my personal opinion, which I generally try to avoid espousing on the internet).

I'm curious as to why you would even consider it?  Waiting until you have UK citizenship then renouncing would be the path of least resistance! 

From the limited number of forums that deal with renunciation as one of their main themes, only 2 or 3 USC people have been found (worldwide) who have become 'stateless'. One has appeared in a few YouTube videos. There are no more USCs, that can be found, who have done the USC to stateless move.

IIRC, those identified are now resident in small countries (islands).

I'm not sure how the UK Home Office would view an individual who obtained a residence visa using a (US) passport who then declares themselves stateless. Others here are far more knowledgeable on this aspect.

In general, the consensus is 'don't do it': you leave yourself far too vulnerable.

In general, the consensus is 'don't do it': you leave yourself far too vulnerable.

It’s not something I would ever recommend doing - way too risky in my opinion.

It would be much quicker (and easier) to either try to qualify for ILR visa on your current visa route or to marry your UK partner, switch to FLR(M) and start the 5 years for ILR from there.

From a quick search online, if you were successful in becoming stateless and getting leave to remain, it looks like it would probably take you a further 7-8 years from now to qualify for ILR:
- at least 1 year to be approved to renounce US citizenship
- at least 1 year for the leave to remain application to be processed after renouncing
- another 5 years in the UK on two 30-month visas to qualify for ILR
- another 1 year after that to qualify for U.K. citizenship



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I'm curious as to why you would even consider it?  Waiting until you have UK citizenship then renouncing would be the path of least resistance! 

I'm in a situation where I likely won't ever qualify for UK citizenship. I'm on a 3-year Tier 2 work visa, and I'm not scheduled to hit the experienced rate of pay in the next 12 months (I'm ten grand short...) and I've burned through thousands of applications and dozens of interviews trying to secure alternative sponsorship in a more advanced and lucrative position at a larger company, but the RLMT is a serious barrier, and ultimately any offer of employment I received has been rescinded.

I've almost entirely accepted this defeat. I know I'd be able to rebuild my career and find a new partner in the US, but there's still that little part of me that doesn't want to go down without a fight. And that’s the part of me that keeps wandering back to these hair-brained ideas. That's not really an excuse, but hopefully it helps to explain where my thoughts are coming from.



I know section 4.6.6 of the Statelessness guidance specifically addresses voluntary renunciation of citizenship. I also know that the US takes a comparatively hard-line approach when it comes to the permanence of revoking citizenship. But it would all boil down to how practically and legally irreversible it is and if there is absolutely no way to claim against the renounced US citizenship.

For the record, I'm never going to do this. I’m way too compliant. I still think it is cathartic to entertain and it would probably make a for good film...

For the record, I'm never going to do this. I’m way too compliant. I still think it is cathartic to entertain and it would probably make a for good film...

From a discussion point of view, I think it would be a truly life altering decision.  The amount of protection we have from having a "state" is undeniable.  If someone did this, absolutely everything in their life could potentially spiral out of control.

From not being able to travel, access to medical care, right to work, etc., it would be massive.  I can only imagine those who have chosen to become stateless what kind of war-torn country they must have come from. 

I'm in a situation where I likely won't ever qualify for UK citizenship. I'm on a 3-year Tier 2 work visa, and I'm not scheduled to hit the experienced rate of pay in the next 12 months (I'm ten grand short...) and I've burned through thousands of applications and dozens of interviews trying to secure alternative sponsorship in a more advanced and lucrative position at a larger company, but the RLMT is a serious barrier, and ultimately any offer of employment I received has been rescinded.

I've almost entirely accepted this defeat. I know I'd be able to rebuild my career and find a new partner in the US, but there's still that little part of me that doesn't want to go down without a fight. And that’s the part of me that keeps wandering back to these hair-brained ideas. That's not really an excuse, but hopefully it helps to explain where my thoughts are coming from.



I know section 4.6.6 of the Statelessness guidance specifically addresses voluntary renunciation of citizenship. I also know that the US takes a comparatively hard-line approach when it comes to the permanence of revoking citizenship. But it would all boil down to how practically and legally irreversible it is and if there is absolutely no way to claim against the renounced US citizenship.

For the record, I'm never going to do this. I’m way too compliant. I still think it is cathartic to entertain and it would probably make a for good film...

Thank you! 

I'm in a situation where I likely won't ever qualify for UK citizenship. I'm on a 3-year Tier 2 work visa, and I'm not scheduled to hit the experienced rate of pay in the next 12 months (I'm ten grand short...)

It would be easier to go to one of those matchmaking evenings or look in the internet, to try to find a British citizen/ILR holder spouse, to be able to stay. That only has an £18,600 financial requirement. There must be a thread on here somewhere where people have posted where they met their spouse.

It would be easier to go to one of those matchmaking evenings or look in the internet, to try to find a British citizen/ILR holder, spouse.

Yeah that's pretty much what my boss told me too when he said he wasn't going to renew my visa at the experienced rate of pay. I mean... in practice my employer is not actually discriminating against my marital status but it still kind of tastes like it.

I've got a British partner who I've been with for four or five years now and we talked about it and we aren't going to get married. We're simply too young and not ready. So, It's Tier 2 or bust.
I really shouldn't say Tier 2 or bust, I'm hardly a purist!   I'm even taking night classes in web development just on the off chance I can secure some kind of tech talent visa under Tier 1, but I mean I've only got a little over 12 months, so I'm probably kidding myself with how much I can learn and apply for etc.

Are you living together? What about unmarried partner? If you have or will have proof of living together for 2 full years and otherwise meet the requirements, you would easily qualify for that.

Are you living together? What about unmarried partner? If you have or will have proof of living together for 2 full years and otherwise meet the requirements, you would easily qualify for that.

No, we don't cohabitate. We made sure to discuss this at the "24 months to expiry" mark, but we determined: 1) it would be more expensive for us to live together and commute separately than it is for us to live in separate towns and commute respectively. 2) A little ocean isn't going to stop my very religious family from attempting to bring down the full wrath of God on such an "unholy" living arrangement on a daily basis. I'm old enough to ignore this and could even cut off communication all together if I have to, but it would be possibly unnecessarily adding to my pile of challenges to overcome.