Well, they've closed the border

Justifiably. It was mobbed. (San Ysidro/Tijuana)

This is just the beginning, of course.

Oh geez... It just keeps getting worse.

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I saw they bought full riot gear last week for Laredo.

They’re not going to let a mob rush a border crossing. They’ll do the best they can on the rest of the border. Same as any country would do.


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Once we fought Hitler and the might of the Reich, now we lob tear gas canisters at poverty stricken children.

The quality of mercy is not strained.
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.

 - Shakespeare

Once we fought Hitler and the might of the Reich, now we lob tear gas canisters at poverty stricken children.

The quality of mercy is not strained.
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.

 - Shakespeare

Tear gas is better than shooting them in the back through gaps in the border fence, as they did a few years ago. The agent concerned said he was responding to rocks being thrown.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/07/mexican-teen-us-border-patrol-agent-lonnie-swartz-court?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Meanwhile a humanitarian aid volunteer is facing up to 20 years in prison for  providing food and water to 2 migrants near the Cabeza Prieta wilderness area
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/11/border-patrol-retrial-lonnie-swartz-jose-antonio-elena-rodriguez?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Tear gas is better than shooting them in the back through gaps in the border fence, as they did a few years ago. The agent concerned said he was responding to rocks being thrown.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/07/mexican-teen-us-border-patrol-agent-lonnie-swartz-court?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Meanwhile a humanitarian aid volunteer is facing up to 20 years in prison for  providing food and water to 2 migrants near the Cabeza Prieta wilderness area
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/11/border-patrol-retrial-lonnie-swartz-jose-antonio-elena-rodriguez?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Those “rocks” are several pounds and quite deadly. Many of their trucks are armored up.

If you set out “humanitarian” supplies that encourage people to trek across the desert in dependence on that help, and hundreds die as a result of those misplaced good intentions, that’s a problem. Not sure what solution can be found other than prosecution, but if your reckless acts lead to the death of people, that is a criminal offense.

Also, a very high percentage of USBP are Hispanic, first generation children of immigrants, and born in the border region. Just so we’re not trying to label them as something they are not.

US immigration law is a mess, but it’s also extremely permissive compared to everywhere else. That hamstringing of effective performance is part of the problem which encourages people to try to exploit the system or disregard the law.


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Not sure what solution can be found other than prosecution

When you got a hammer, everything looks like nails.

When you got a hammer, everything looks like nails.

When you’re the government, you aren’t allowed to force people todo things against their will without a limited narrow law that gives you specific authority to do so, cause freedom & constitution & stuff.

It is not illegal to give candy to children. When govt says please stop cause it risks harming the kids, yet you continue, the govt cannot stop you. When you then stand on the median of the freeway across from a park with a big sign that says free candy, the cops come along to find a dozen kids splattered on the road and on on the median with you devouring a whole pot of candy... then it’s going to be really appropriate to arrest you.


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Those “rocks” are several pounds and quite deadly. Many of their trucks are armored up.

If you set out “humanitarian” supplies that encourage people to trek across the desert in dependence on that help, and hundreds die as a result of those misplaced good intentions, that’s a problem. Not sure what solution can be found other than prosecution, but if your reckless acts lead to the death of people, that is a criminal offense.

Also, a very high percentage of USBP are Hispanic, first generation children of immigrants, and born in the border region. Just so we’re not trying to label them as something they are not.

US immigration law is a mess, but it’s also extremely permissive compared to everywhere else. That hamstringing of effective performance is part of the problem which encourages people to try to exploit the system or disregard the law.


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Is there a mistake and I didn't see the post you replied to?  Cause nobody mentioned leaving supplies anywhere.  Or anyone labelling people.  Are you just throwing out random Republican arguments?

People are basically evil aren't they Hobbes?

Give them candy and they lure kids into the highway.

Is there a mistake and I didn't see the post you replied to?  Cause nobody mentioned leaving supplies anywhere.  Or anyone labelling people.  Are you just throwing out random Republican arguments?

Then you should take another look, cause the post I replied to is quoted, and the second link in the text I responded to/quoted directly discusses an aid worker facing charges for leaving supplies for people crossing a desert area.

And I preemptively am attempting to shut down the entirety of any thought that any part of anything border patrol does is based on racism, bigotry, or any sort of lack of sympathy for the plight of immigrants in general. The concept in all these arguments seems to be painting the president as some white supremacist and blaming all actions taken by USBP to enforce the law and preserve the security of the border to be some sort of racist authoritarian inappropriateness. But that absolutely defies who those people are and what they’re doing.

If you don’t want non-lethal force, the alternative is not standing aside, it’s lethal force. As someone else said, you should be thankful they used tear gas.

You might also note the attack on and breach of the Mexican line (with officer injuries) before the American side shut the border. And also that some of the tear gas photos that got wide usage were found to be staged after the incident.


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The freeway candy scenario was illegal from the start.  Pedestrians are not permitted on the highway.  He broke the law long before he put his sign up.  No need to wait for splattered children.

People are basically evil aren't they Hobbes?

Give them candy and they lure kids into the highway.

People with good hearts who are dumbasses do often with the very best of intentions make everything they touch worse off, and often lead to deaths that shouldn’t happen cause they think they’re helping. That is all too common. We called it the good idea fairy in the Army.


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The freeway candy scenario was illegal from the start.  Pedestrians are not permitted on the highway.  He broke the law long before he put his sign up.  No need to wait for splattered children.

That premises on your insertion into the scenario that pedestrians aren’t allowed on the highway. And they aren’t outlawed on the median in most states. But I can just as easily make stuff up to say the candy giver’s creepy van is pulled off on the median with him and a tire deflated as a pretext or the distributor cap loosened. Whatever.

In the case at issue, organizations were warned against trespassing and that their conduct motivated people to risk their lives on the extremely perilous crossing when they otherwise wouldn’t. The hypothetical that police could have arrested them for trespassing if they’d been there the moment they crossed a property line, is irrelevant. Cause they caught them at the point they’d done all this other stuff.


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Is there a mistake and I didn't see the post you replied to?  Cause nobody mentioned leaving supplies anywhere.  Or anyone labelling people.  Are you just throwing out random Republican arguments?

You are right, I neglected to read the entire article.  Sorry about that.

Unfortunately, it doesn't make your argument that providing food and water attracts migrants to those dangerous areas.  People leave out water because people will try to cross no matter what.  The people trying to cross came first, not the people leaving water.

Which demonstrates why your analogy of attracting kids to cross the highway is incorrect. A more accurate analogy would be a person handing out high visibility jackets at a dangerous crossing where school children are tempted to take a shortcut across the motorway.  No one would argue that this person should be stopped so that kids learn the hard way to stay off the road.

Your argument is actually quite similar to the people that believe migrants off the coast of Italy should not be rescued in order to teach other migrants a lesson.  Only a person without empathy could make such an argument, as those people will make the journey no matter what the risk.