Brexit vote delayed?

So, the vote was to be tomorrow. We were gonna know what was going to happen - hard Brexit or not.

And now the PM has decided to not have the vote tomorrow. Does she actually have the authority to do that?

So, the vote was to be tomorrow. We were gonna know what was going to happen - hard Brexit or not.

And now the PM has decided to not have the vote tomorrow. Does she actually have the authority to do that?

She does.

She’s postponed because she didn’t have the votes. And losing would of course be the end of her.

Now she’s begging for a lifeline she can’t get - cause at the end of the day the EU won’t budge on the NI border issue and she can’t agree to it. Both because she can’t get the votes and if she could the DUP would bring down the govt to prevent it (that snap election is biting now).

You see the stories out recently saying some on the EU commission saying giving up NI is the cost of Brexit? SNP out yesterday saying Scottish independence is better than this deal. Seems like a lot of efforts from the other side to carve up. Which of course no govt can agree to - wars are fought over less. Yet brexit must occur. If that’s the positions then hard out is seemingly the only option.

Perhaps the govt can seek an extension with hard brexit being accepted as the deal and time to negotiate a trade deal - but they must also be able to negotiate at the same time with the rest of the world. That’s what they should have done in the first place.


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ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH HHHH! 

I had just gotten ok with knowing what was going to happen, tomorrow. I could then start weeding through the contingency plans. So now this is gonna drag out and out and out some more. I no longer give a rats nether-end which is it, Brexit Hard, Brexit Soft, No Brexit. I just want a decision made.

Yeah, something like 2/3rd of Scots say it's better to go indy than to take this Brexit deal. Then again, once out of the EU, a lot of Scots will want to go indy anyway. Not being in the EU was not on the landscape at the indyref. And a significant majority voted to stay in the EU. So, Scotland's going indy, it's just a matter of when it happens. (The hostility on the street up here towards the PM/England is almost palpable.)

EU has already said the Irish backstop is non-negotiable. They've agreed a deal, and it's over as far as they are concerned. There's no "going back to them" in that scenario. So she's just going to run down the clock, and it'll be a hard Brexit? 29 March and we all go over the cliff?

[Hmmmmm. I've only got enough food stored for maybe a month, or two if I stretch it. I think I'll order just a bit more non-perishible stuff, since the last I saw was that the mess at the ports was going to take six months to sort out. I don't think there won't be food. Just what there will be will be somewhat restricted and expensive.]

Pound is at $1.25

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH! 

I had just gotten ok with knowing what was going to happen, tomorrow. I could then start weeding through the contingency plans. So now this is gonna drag out and out and out some more. I no longer give a rats nether-end which is it, Brexit Hard, Brexit Soft, No Brexit. I just want a decision made.

That's exactly what the Tories want you to think.  Every single time May or anyone who supports her, it's all about "Ending this", or "getting it over with so we can get on with our lives".  Sorry, but this is too important a decision to make in haste because we are getting a bit tired.   This has the potential to screw up this country for decades, we need to spend time to get this right.  Every time May says this particular bit of nonsense, it further underlines her contempt for the intelligence of the populace. 

Yet brexit must occur. If that’s the positions then hard out is seemingly the only option.

No,  Brexit doesn't have to occur.  Nobody voted for a hard Brexit, and nobody certainly voted for the dog's dinner being foisted upon us. People voted without having any idea what the final deal would be and it's perfectly reasonable that people should vote on the final deal.  Why not?  If people truly want Brexit they can vote for it again.   It was a non binding vote.

The courts ruled today that we can unilaterally stop this right now and just pretend we never invoked article 50.  The whole thing will just go away.

I also noticed that you slid in the "oh well, I guess it will have to be a hard Brexit" like that will be a minor inconvenience.  Have you been listening to the news?  Even the government says there will be food shortages for 6 months.  You can't argue anyone voted for that!  I'm going to have to find out where Nan lives and fight her for her cans of beans. I don't fancy my chances.

That's exactly what the Tories want you to think.  Every single time May or anyone who supports her, it's all about "Ending this", or "getting it over with so we can get on with our lives".  Sorry, but this is too important a decision to make in haste because we are getting a bit tired.   This has the potential to screw up this country for decades, we need to spend time to get this right.  Every time May says this particular bit of nonsense, it further underlines her contempt for the intelligence of the populace.

Duuude, there is no "getting it right." It went wrong when she submitted the Article 50 notice before there having been extensive study of the outcomes. Or, for that matter,  having a referendum in the first place before doing the studies so that people were not able to make an informed decision.  That was just...idiocy.

TM can ask for an extension of time from the EU, which they'd probably give her. (?)  But all the interviews I saw with EU policymakers had them saying that the thing is done - they have agreed to a plan and there's not going to be any changes to the Irish backstop. It could all be scrapped, of course, and perhaps a Norway (or similar) substituted, but no way is TM going to get that through, either.  The Irish Question always remains.

So if she's going to do a virtual gun muzzle discharge to the temple of the country (ies, actually), I wish she'd just do it and stop drawing it out. Better yet, take it back to the voters. (Which also is not going to happen.) Then the pieces could be picked up and life can go on.

On the food thing. What I heard discussed was a six month logjam at the chunnel and ports. There will be food here - it'll be shipped in from elsewhere. And it'll be more expensive. But I don't think we're going to see WW2 Rationing of dwindling supplies.

Just for reference - https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/10/uk/brexit-vote-delay-theresa-may-gbr-intl/index.html



European Council President Donald Tusk said that the EU "will not renegotiate the deal including the backstop" and stressed that "as time is running out, we will also discuss our preparedness for a no-deal scenario."  Tusk added that the EU is "ready to discuss how to facilitate UK ratification."

    I have decided to call #EUCO on #Brexit (Art. 50) on Thursday. We will not renegotiate the deal, including the backstop, but we are ready to discuss how to facilitate UK ratification. As time is running out, we will also discuss our preparedness for a no-deal scenario.
    — Donald Tusk (@eucopresident) December 10, 2018

In a post on Twitter before May spoke, EU Parliament chief Brexit negotiator Guy Verhofstadt expressed his frustration at the vote's stalling.
"This delay will further aggravate the uncertainty for people & businesses. It's time they make up their mind!" he wrote.

    I can't follow anymore. After two years of negotiations, the Tory government wants to delay the vote. Just keep in mind that we will never let the Irish down. This delay will further aggravate the uncertainty for people & businesses. It's time they make up their mind! #brexit
    — Guy Verhofstadt (@guyverhofstadt) December 10, 2018

Earlier on Monday, the EU's top court ruled that Britain could unilaterally halt the formal process of leaving the bloc next year.
The European Court of Justice sided with the advice of its top legal officer, who declared last week that the UK has the power to withdraw its notification to leave under Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, without the agreement of other member states.

    #ECJ: UK is free to unilaterally revoke the notification of its intention to withdraw from the EU -- Case C-621/18 Wightman #Brexit pic.twitter.com/KUOI2eQ48C
    — EU Court of Justice (@EUCourtPress) December 10, 2018

But May's government dismissed the ruling, with Environment Secretary Michael Gove telling the BBC that the UK will divorce the bloc regardless of the ECJ decision.

But I don't think we're going to see WW2 Rationing of dwindling supplies.

I'm not so sure, rationing was not just for WW2. It went on until 1954!   In America, you could buy this car and in the UK you couldn't even buy bacon.   The government can't be trusted to not screw this up.

I'm not so sure, rationing was not just for WW2. It went on until 1954!   In America, you could buy this car and in the UK you couldn't even buy bacon.   The government can't be trusted to not screw this up.

Granted.

PS  I don't actually stock beans (hate them - lived for too many years on red beans and rice). But canned soup at .75 per can (which it was at ...Tesco?... last week) is a good thing to have a case or two of stashed back. You can also heat it over a candle, in case dwindling fuel supplies cause the lights/power to go out. 

PPSS Also, wasn't rationing kept on that long because the UK was paying back the massive debt it had run up with the USA, for the Lend-Lease Act stuff? They  did pay back every penny, I believe.

PPPSSS I want one of those cars! Stylish! All metal - won't crumple, will just bulldoze through!

Call it off.

No constitutional legitimacy to begin with. No plan. Idiocy basically.

Europe has expressed over and over the willingness to call this a silly summer fling.

Call it off.

No constitutional legitimacy to begin with. No plan. Idiocy basically.

Europe has expressed over and over the willingness to call this a silly summer fling.

One can only hope.

One can only hope.

To remain in the EU means ultimately the separation of NI & Scotland, and subordination of England to a formally non sovereign subordinate state (if not further division). As it means for France, Germany, and everyone else within the project. Under one all powerful centralized government with a habit of overstepping the will of the people or governments of the subordinate places to impose its greater will - sometimes citing human rights and sometimes wielding economic power. That is tyranny. And accepting tyranny for an economic outcome - especially one that seeks to consolidate power over the continent - is a mistake Europe has made several times before. One would hope they’d learned the lesson, but it would seem not. Instead, they’ve pointed the finger at nationalism for those past mistakes, while practicing nationalism for the EU.

In pure economic terms, the entire business model of the EU is protectionism. They sign lots of free trade deals, but then erect regulatory and product safety standards that do not have a rational basis is actual or reasonable consumer protection, mismatch to the global standards, and simply add costs to external suppliers while protecting internal suppliers. Yet, their internal suppliers are free to produce for export things outside the EU’s very particular standards. One would think there is only so long economic superpowers are willing to tolerate such an unfair situation, but in reality foreign companies simply do less business with Europe than they otherwise would. And that’s why you see places like the UK with wages at half the US despite equally capable driven people.

Change is always scary, but never should anyone accept long term malaise in order to avoid short term pain. Taking the tape off is always painful. Having it done in one quick go and on with one’s life is always the better solution that does get more quickly to the better place beyond.


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Scotland's going to separate anyway. It's just a matter of time.