Questions regarding work/re visas and also embassy personal answering questions.

Where are you getting this?

Continuous legislation around SS making it more and more difficult.

It wouldn’t work in this case as the OP isn’t living in Ireland with his girlfriend, so it’s really a moot point.

So marriage OR two years?

Oh, actually, just looking at the Surinder Singh rules, it’s marriage or nothing.

Only direct family members are eligible for Surinder Singh (I.e. spouse, child, parent). Unmarried Partners are considered extended family members and are not eligible for Surinder Singh.

See page 9-10 of the rules:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/655492/Family-members-of-British-citizens-v3.0EXT.pdf#page9

However, isn’t this a moot point anyway? The OP is not married, not living in Ireland, and we’re leaving the EU in 3 months... so none of the EU routes will be available to UK citizens anymore.


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However, isn’t this a moot point anyway? The OP is not married, not living in Ireland, and we’re leaving the EU in 3 months... so none of the EU routes will be available to UK citizens anymore.

I am not quite as sure as some here about how Brexit will turn out.  I am not sure this Government will be around for much longer or that Brexit will happen. I am not sure there will not be a period of time that current EU law is honoured. A transition period.

I don't think anyone knows.

I do not know if the 17 year old will turn 18 next week nor any plans for marriage or where they can live under existing Union Law.

Would someone here like to step up and show where Suinded Singe has been closed?

Stray thought, which may help you at some point. Especially if you are considering going on to University. There are some wicked good scholarships in Ireland....   If your girlfriend has dual citizenship with Ireland, and you were going to university in Ireland, and you married your girlfriend when she turned 18, and if you both wanted to live there in Ireland, you could apply to be naturalized:

If you are the spouse or civil partner of an Irish citizen who is applying for Irish citizenship, you must meet the following conditions:

    You must be married to or in a recognised civil partnership* with the Irish citizen for at least 3 years
    You must have had a period of 1 year's continuous reckonable residence - see below - in the island of Ireland immediately before the date of your application, and during the 4 years preceding that, have had a total reckonable residence in the island of Ireland amounting to 2 years. Altogether you must have a total of 3 years reckonable residence out of the last 5 years.
    Your marriage or civil partnership must be recognised as valid under Irish law
    You and your spouse or civil partner must be living together as a married couple or civil partners
    You must be of full age, good character and intend to continue to live on the island of Ireland
    You must have made a declaration of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_marriage.html


Also, any chance that you have a parent or grandparent who was Irish? If so, you can apply for Irish citizenship by descent.

Also, something to check - because of the CTA your girlfriend may be already considered as "settled" in Ireland, if she is a UK citizen. That might make it possible for her to sponsor you as a spouse/partner of a settled person. (Not sure, but worth checking on.)

Once you are a naturalized Irish citizen, you can avail of the CTA (common travel area agreement) between Eire and the UK, and live/work/study in the UK. Irish are considered "settled" immediately.  The only catch there is that because you are naturalized, you have to report every year to the Irish government why you are not living in Ireland - you have to have a good reason or else you are in danger of having them rescind your naturalization. (Unless your citizenship is via descent, when that requirement does not apply.)

All of that can change at the drop of a hat, however, and Brexit throws a wrench into a lot of things. And you don't mention any interest in going on for Higher Education. But it's something you might think about. You might want to read this article. https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/how-can-i-bring-my-non-irish-partner-to-live-in-ireland-1.3086540

Would someone here like to step up and show where Suinded Singe has been closed?

It's been talked about now and then for the last couple of years, and the rules have been changed, but I don't think it's explicitly closed as of yet.. but it's much more difficult to qualify for now.

A few articles about it:
https://www.testlifeinuk.com/the-surinder-singh-route-has-now-been-closed/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/16/immigration-loophole-for-foreign-born-spouses-could-close-under-draft-eu-rules
http://otssolicitors.co.uk/news/ireland%E2%80%99s-delay-in-issuing-visas-under-the-eea-surinder-singh-route

But then going by other articles, it seems that part of the rules for SS have been relaxed (allowing people who are self-sufficient/students to qualify as well as those who are working), and it isn't closed yet:
https://www.lupinsimmigration.com/changes-rules-surrounding-surinder-singh-route/
https://www.davidgray.co.uk/eea-regulations-changes-july-2018/

Are you suggesting they get married when they are both of marriageable age?

I don't usually try and coach like that, are there any other tips you are holding back?

I was wondering how he could use Singh? I assumed you had read the regs and saw how they could do that? I couldn't see how he could.

Stray thought, which may help you at some point. Especially if you are considering going on to University. There are some wicked good scholarships in Ireland....   If your girlfriend has dual citizenship with Ireland, and you were going to university in Ireland, and you married your girlfriend when she turned 18, and if you both wanted to live there in Ireland, you could apply to be naturalized:

That's what I was thinking, if he would qualify for a visa under Irish immigratiuon rules for the Republic?. I can't see how he can use the Singh route to the UK.

Or an Irish wife could go to one on the free universities in another  EEA country that they are not citizen of, under the EU's Free Movement, and take her US citizen husband with her. They will both need to have Comprehensive Sickness Insurance and he would be allowed to work or study, but they can't take benefits from that country so will need to support themselves.

Once you are a naturalized Irish citizen, you can avail of the CTA (common travel agreement) between Eire and the UK, and live/work/study in the UK. Irish are considered "settled" immediately. 

Settled status, which is not settlement. In 2000 the then UK government ended settlement for workers and made it settled status instead. Five years to settlement in the UK under the present rules, instead of being able to apply for ILR (settlement) as soon as workers arrived .

The only catch there is that because you are naturalized, you have to report every year to the Irish government why you are not living in Ireland - you have to have a good reason or else you are in danger of having them rescind your naturalization. (Unless your citizenship is via descent, when that requirement does not apply.)

I didn't know that. I'm always amazed by how many EU countries can remove their citizenship for things like that, or not allow dual citizenship.

Oh, actually, just looking at the Surinder Singh rules, it’s marriage or nothing.

Only direct family members are eligible for Surinder Singh (I.e. spouse, child, parent). Unmarried Partners are considered extended family members and are not eligible for Surinder Singh.

Yes, they stopped unmarried partners using Singh to the UK as part of the Singh changes, after the ECJ said the non-EEA citizen abuse on their Singh Ruling to avoid the immigration rules of that EEA country, should be stopped. Just one of the many changes, all cleary mentioned in the UK's EEA Regulations and mentioned under the UK announcing changes to sections of the EEA Regs.

Partners are only Extended Family Members and have no automatic rights under EU laws. In 2017 the UK also brought in more changes that now stops some non-EEA citizens coming to the UK as Extended Family Members on Free Movement.

However the UK will now allow others to use Singh. e.g.  their Brits can now be a Self Sufficient Qualified Person in another EEA country.

To use Singh, the non-EEA citizen needs to live in that EEA country with their Brit who is exercising treaty rights in a country that they are not a citizen of. The Brit must also now prove that their  "centre of life" was in that EEA country to stop the Singh abuse.

The 17 year old girlfriend would need to be exercising her  EU treaty rights in an EEA country they are not be a citizen of that country and it sounds like it's  only her British citizen parents who are exercising treat rights? If that is the case, then that would make the OP an Extended Family Member and they are not allowed to use Singh to the UK anymore.

Even if the 17 year old was exercising treaty rights in a country she is not a citizen of, it will be difficult to prove Centre of Life for a spouse just joining her when she wants  to live in the UK (go to  university).

If everything can be met, it will take many months to get and RC in the Republic, and they have to be in the Republic for many months to pass the Centre of Life requirement.. Brexit and no trade deal means UK rules end in the UK on 29 March, no time to use the Singh Route to the UK.

Even if the OP reached the UK under the Singh Ruling, they are still the changes to the EEA Regs that the UK have brought in for those wanting to use Singh.  e.g. their  British citizen must now be an EU "qualified person”  in the UK continuously for the non-EEA citizen to have a lawful right to be in the UK  and for some that means they must buy a Comprehensive Sickness Insurance. Non-EEA citizens can be deported.


Plus on a Brexit, even  if there is a trade deal and a Withdrawal agreement, nothing has been negotiated by the EU under that for non-EEA citizens using Singh, nor for some other non-EEA citizens using various EU routes to be in an EEA country. The EU stated that these being allowed to stay will be up to the UK government/future UK governments. Although those married to a British citizen can always apply for a spouse visa under UK immigration rules. Those already in the UK using Singh and refused the EU's PR or RC, or who know they will be refused PR as they don't meet the EEA Regs in the UK, are already changing to a UK spouse visa to start their 5 years to settlement again.

Again are you advising that the original poster's girlfriend could at 18 establish herself and through marriage the non EU spouse woulld be "eligible" for Suirinder Singh?  As things stand now and possibly in the future (assuming Brexit doesn't collapse).

Because this sounds like what you are saying, only shrouded in immigrationforum-speak.

Again are you advising that the original poster's girlfriend could at 18 establish herself and through marriage the non EU spouse woulld be "eligible" for Suirinder Singh?  As things stand now and possibly in the future (assuming Brexit doesn't collapse).

Because this sounds like what you are saying, only shrouded in immigrationforum-speak.

I didn't mention the age 18, it was you who did that. The EU doesn't have an age requirement of age 18 under their rules of being what the EU call in their Directive, a "qualified person".

I clearly explained why I don't think the OP can use Singh to the UK and gave my many reasons why I had assumed that under the present EEA Regualtions. Nor were most of my reasons connected to any Brexit, just to the EEA regulations in their present form.
As you seem to think the OP can use Singh, I would be interested to read your reasons how. I'm happy to be corrected, that's how we learn. I have already asked you to explain why you think this as I couldn't see how he could.

So, the OP would need to find a way to move to Ireland for a couple of years first, before they could even consider Surinder Singh... though aren’t they supposed to be shutting down the Surinder Singh route anyway?

Not for those genuinely using the Surinder Singh route. It's those using that route to try to evade the immigration laws of that EEA country, that is getting shut down by the governments of the  EEA countries. Abuse always get shut down.
e.g
KFdancer is working in another EEA country and met her Brit who was working in that country too. When she married him she could automatically stay in that EEA country because her husband was working in that country.  Several children later, they decide to move to the UK and KFdancer would be a genuine Surinder Singh case and have no problems proving it. 

It's alwasy a shock on the EEA forums when there is a genuine Surinder Singh case asking how they can move back to the EEA citizens home country.

Moving away from EEA regs for a second and back to UK regs... OP - have you and your girlfriend met in person? Do you intend on marrying (after she turns 18)?

(Eighteen being the legal age for marriage in Ireland....) If she has dual Irish citizenship, there are other ways - but only if there's an established relationship already.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/De+Facto+Relationships 

https://www.relocatemagazine.com/immigration-ireland-immigration-permissions-change-for-unmarried-partners 

That's what I was thinking, if he would qualify for a visa under Irish immigratiuon rules for the Republic?. I can't see how he can use the Singh route to the UK.

Or an Irish wife could go to one on the free universities in another  EEA country that they are not citizen of, under the EU's Free Movement, and take her US citizen husband with her. They will both need to have Comprehensive Sickness Insurance and he would be allowed to work or study, but they can't take benefits from that country so will need to support themselves.

Settled status, which is not settlement. In 2000 the then UK government ended settlement for workers and made it settled status instead. Five years to settlement in the UK under the present rules, instead of being able to apply for ILR (settlement) as soon as workers arrived .

I didn't know that. I'm always amazed by how many EU countries can remove their citizenship for things like that, or not allow dual citizenship.

Yep. I was, too.

There's also the rather nebulous "Irish Associations" naturalization option. In which the Minister for Justice can waive one or all of the naturalization requirements at his/her descretion.  It's not widely advertised, but can be found in the legislation and you can apply under it if you have close association (blood usually, I think) with someone who is Irish.

Irish naturalization (except for "by descent") requires, as one of the criteria, that you plan to live in Ireland. They're a practical people, however, so I assume if one has to live elsewhere because of education or work, or family needs, they would not be prone to rescind the naturalization. You just have to be sure to report every year and explain why you're not there.

The very cool thing about Irish naturalization is that it's two-stage:  You apply and pay about 175 Euro for your application to be processed. If you are turned down, there is no appeal, but you can reapply later. If you are accepted/approved and want to go forward with the process, you then send them a much larger amount of money, attend a formal ceremony in Ireland where you swear allegiance to the State, and then you are Irish. And can apply for the Irish passport. Etc. Which gets you Irish status, EU status, and CTA (settled status) options.

Moving away from EEA regs for a second and back to UK regs... OP - have you and your girlfriend met in person? Do you intend on marrying (after she turns 18)?

We have not met in person. I'm open to the idea of marrying but upon probing the idea my girlfriend seemed much less willing towards the idea.