Advice on navigating between Fiance Visa and applying to a Master's course

Hi everyone, I'm so happy to have found this forum.  I'm hoping that some folks here would be so kind as to provide some guidance for my situation. 

Here's my situation: 
I've just started the process of applying for a Fiance Visa, but in an effort to try and set my up my life in the UK, I am also applying to a taught master's degree program(me) to start in September 2019.  I know that I cannot study on the Fiance Visa, so our plan was to get married as quickly as possible, apply for the Spouse Visa immediately thereafter.  As part of the master's application, I have to identify what status I will be studying under and I'm not sure what to do.  I'm nervous about the chance of the Spouse Visa not coming through in time to start the course.  I started to wonder if I should just put Tier 4, but then I could be spinning several visa application plates all at once, which cannot be a good thing.  I also don't want to give the school the impression that I'm using them, because I really want to study there, but I also want to be clear on what my situation is.  I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts or advice on how to navigate this potential minefield?

Essential background info:
I'm a US Citizen and my fiancee is an EU National, who received UK Permanent Residence status in December 2018 (which I believe she needs to renew after BREXIT takes effect).  She works full time and has a good job, which is why she's there in the first place and why I want to join her instead of us coming to the US or going to her home country right now. 

Additional background info:
This was not our initial plan -- I was going to continue visiting her on a Tourist Visa (no big deal, right?  WRONG), apply for Tier 4 and get married on our own timeline.  However, upon my last entry to the UK, I was hassled quite a bit by the IO as I am currently unemployed.  In hindsight, although I was not trying to do anything dodgy, I can see why the IO grilled me so hard, I just didn't realize what a huge deal it would be that I didn't have a job.  FWIW, I had just completed my military service and wanted to take time off, it's not like I'm just a marauding vagabond.   

Welcome!

It might be a good option for you to apply for the Tier 4 visa for your programme and enter on that. It allows you to use the NHS and work (up to 20 hours per week), neither of which you would be allowed to do on a fiancé visa.

You can marry while living in the UK on a Tier 4 visa and apply for FLR as a spouse when your Tier 4 visa expires. Only thing is that I don’t believe your time living here on a Tier 4 visa counts towards the 5 years needed for ILR/citizenship.

Hopefully one of the experts will stop by soon with more info!

As your partner is an EU citizen, they CANNOT sponsor your fiance/spouse visa as you fall under EU rules - not UK rules.

What you will need to do is marry, and then apply for an EEA Family Permit.  However, come March with Brexit, this will all be up in the air. 

So for the purpose of your Masters, you will state that you will be studying under EU rules/rights.

As your partner is an EU citizen, they CANNOT sponsor your fiance/spouse visa as you fall under EU rules - not UK rules.

I thought if the EU had PR (as in this case) they could sponsor under the UK rules?

As your partner is an EU citizen, they CANNOT sponsor your fiance/spouse visa as you fall under EU rules - not UK rules.

As their EU Partner has Permanent  Residence in the UK, surely that means they can sponsor a UK visa if they want to?


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Not an expert by any means here, but if they postpone Brexit, it's hella cheaper to bring in someone on EU rules than UK rules. Once in-country as an eu-spouse, you are free to work or go to university. You will still pay "international" tuition rates, but you can go.

A family permit was taking about six weeks to process, a few years ago. There wasn't any way to speed it up. There is still six weeks before Brexit.

A family permit was taking about six weeks to process, a few years ago. There wasn't any way to speed it up. There is still six weeks before Brexit.

Family permits are much faster than that and you CAN pay priority to speed them up. They have some of the fastest processing times of all applications.

They are usually processed within 15 working days non-priority or about 5 working days with priority. This has been the case for a number of years.



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First and foremost I want to thank everyone for showing interest in my post and my situation.  I would like to provide some additional info and ask again for some advice regarding what to tell the school without risking the perception of deception or give them a non-academic reason to not admit me. 

Using an individual with PR status, regardless of nationality, as a sponsor was stated as legal by an OISC-certified advisor.  This same advisor counselled us on the differences between getting married in the UK versus abroad, particularly given the cost differences.  Although not ideal, our reason for wanting to marry in the UK is two-fold.  First, getting married in her home country requires numerous in-person visits to a local council as well as several US Consular appointments for me, and seeing as she lives and works full-time in the UK, this is not practical.  Secondly, given my previously stated aversion to going back to the UK on a tourist visa, we also think it would be difficult to obtain a fiance visa for her to wed in the US since we will be physically separated.  To wrap up that point, we see the UK Fiance Visa to Spouse Visa as the only viable option that facilitates us being able to be physically together in a reasonable amount of time. 
I might be wrong for being so averse to going back to the UK as a tourist visiting my fiance, but I'm just not willing to jeopardize our future together by risking another encounter with an IO looking for a reason to classify me as an overstay risk and send me packing. 

I apologize if that information should have been provided in my original post, it's just that I had already done my research on that bit.  If someone thinks I was genuinely ill-advised by the immigration counsellor, please do provide a reference so I can go back to her with something.  Of note, I am satisfied with her advice, I came here to try and get some down-to-earth advice about the Uni application since that issue has only just revealed itself to me. 

First and foremost I want to thank everyone for showing interest in my post and my situation.  I would like to provide some additional info and ask again for some advice regarding what to tell the school without risking the perception of deception or give them a non-academic reason to not admit me. 

Using an individual with PR status, regardless of nationality, as a sponsor was stated as legal by an OISC-certified advisor.  This same advisor counselled us on the differences between getting married in the UK versus abroad, particularly given the cost differences.  Although not ideal, our reason for wanting to marry in the UK is two-fold.  First, getting married in her home country requires numerous in-person visits to a local council as well as several US Consular appointments for me, and seeing as she lives and works full-time in the UK, this is not practical.  Secondly, given my previously stated aversion to going back to the UK on a tourist visa, we also think it would be difficult to obtain a fiance visa for her to wed in the US since we will be physically separated.  To wrap up that point, we see the UK Fiance Visa to Spouse Visa as the only viable option that facilitates us being able to be physically together in a reasonable amount of time. 
I might be wrong for being so averse to going back to the UK as a tourist visiting my fiance, but I'm just not willing to jeopardize our future together by risking another encounter with an IO looking for a reason to classify me as an overstay risk and send me packing. 

I apologize if that information should have been provided in my original post, it's just that I had already done my research on that bit.  If someone thinks I was genuinely ill-advised by the immigration counsellor, please do provide a reference so I can go back to her with something.  Of note, I am satisfied with her advice, I came here to try and get some down-to-earth advice about the Uni application since that issue has only just revealed itself to me. 

Your fiance visa would only need a fiance visa to the USA if you intend to settle in the US. If she just flies over for you to marry and then flies back to the UK, she can marry on an ESTA (essentially the US version of a visitor visa that you get at the boarder) or a standard visitor visa applied for in advance (but presumably she qualifies for an ESTA as an EU national). My British husband and I did that, even though we both lived in the UK at the time. He flew to my hometown for a week, went to the courthouse to get a marriage license and married a day or two later and we had a nice time. Then we flew back to the UK and lived in the house we already shared together. NBD.

Your fiance visa would only need a fiance visa to the USA if you intend to settle in the US. If she just flies over for you to marry and then flies back to the UK, she can marry on an ESTA (essentially the US version of a visitor visa that you get at the boarder) or a standard visitor visa applied for in advance (but presumably she qualifies for an ESTA as an EU national). My British husband and I did that, even though we both lived in the UK at the time. He flew to my hometown for a week, went to the courthouse to get a marriage license and married a day or two later and we had a nice time. Then we flew back to the UK and lived in the house we already shared together. NBD.

Oh my... I did not know that was legal, this could change everything for us!  Out of curiosity, when your husband entered the US, did he say he was here to get married?  I was under the impression that she could be identified as an overstay risk if she said she is getting married to a US citizen.  She's already been to the US on ESTA, but they still questioned her quite a bit about her job and ties to the UK and EU. 

EDIT:  How did you prove your intent to return to the UK?  Was the fact that you were living in the UK the critical factor?  I'm in the US right now so I'm concerned that my intention of joining her in the UK is not concrete enough for the border agent. 

First and foremost I want to thank everyone for showing interest in my post and my situation.  I would like to provide some additional info and ask again for some advice regarding what to tell the school without risking the perception of deception or give them a non-academic reason to not admit me.

Well, you will need to work out if you are going to need a Tier 4 visa or not... because if you do need one, the school will have to apply for and issue you with a Certificate of Sponsorship in order for you to be able to apply for the visa. You will have to wait for the Certificate of Sponsorship and then apply for the Tier 4 visa. You will also not be allowed to enter the UK on the Tier 4 until 30 days before the course starts.

If you are not applying for a Tier 4 visa, you may need to already have a spousal visa that allows you to live, work and study in the UK before you will be accepted onto the course... as I assume they will ask for proof of your UK immigration status to show you will not need a Tier 4 visa.


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I thought if the EU had PR (as in this case) they could sponsor under the UK rules?

As their EU Partner has Permanent  Residence in the UK, surely that means they can sponsor a UK visa if they want to?

As KFdancer said, there is nothing for a non-EEA citizen fiance on EU rules.

PR ends on Brexit as PR is EU rules.

Nobody knows what is going to happen as a clean Brexit means no Withdrawal Bill.

Sorry if I was wrong about being able to sponsor with PR!  I didn't think EU could (because pre-Brexit, who would want to)?   

Well, you will need to work out if you are going to need a Tier 4 visa or not... because if you do need one, the school will have to apply for and issue you with a Certificate of Sponsorship in order for you to be able to apply for the visa. You will have to wait for the Certificate of Sponsorship and then apply for the Tier 4 visa. You will also not be allowed to enter the UK on the Tier 4 until 30 days before the course starts.

If you are not applying for a Tier 4 visa, you may need to already have a spousal visa that allows you to live, work and study in the UK before you will be accepted onto the course... as I assume they will ask for proof of your UK immigration status to show you will not need a Tier 4 visa.

I guess what I'm asking here is, should I consult with the school on my situation?  If yes, am I actually risking them viewing me negatively by doing so?  I'm asking because the Tier 4 Immigration History form would legally bind me to explain everything, but if I can consult with the school on my plan to not need the Tier 4, will they just say nope, too risky?  Or if I explain everything on the Tier 4 forms, will I be accused of trying to subvert the immigration laws?  Before I risk reaching out to the school, I just want to try and get a sense from people who have personal experience dealing with UK immigration issues. 

Sorry if I was wrong about being able to sponsor with PR!  I didn't think EU could (because pre-Brexit, who would want to)?   

If there is a UK/EU free trade deal they will, because the Withdrawal Bill will come into play. Although most of that seems to going as a Statutory Instrument and an SI can often easily be ended by any future government, often without the need for a vote in parliament.

A non-EEA citizen with the EU's PR, can only sponsor a non-EEA citizen under UK immigration rules. They cannot use the EU Directive of free movement, because they are not an EEA citizen.